Master "Forged vs. Cast" or "Blade vs. Game-Improvement" Iron Thread

[nykfan4life]

Sabbatini - Nike Ignite Irons

are you sure? nike ignite irons are POS for high handicappers who can't afford any better,i'm pretty sure http://www.golfgalaxy.com/galaxy/pro...G5EC066LSVAMLC

[Leek]

Most of the PGA top20 pros

Callaway X Forged are a cavity back. A great many of the TM RAC players play the incredibly sweet RAC TP CB forged by Miura. Most MacGregor forging are Cavities too. Some are also Miuras. I've tried MP 32, MP 67. They are every bit as fogiving as my MacGregors, my TourStage and my Srixons, which are all cavity backs. By the way, many of those tour clubs are really Miuras and Endos made to look like what we can buy.

[RichF]

are you sure? nike ignite irons are POS for high handicappers who can't afford any better,i'm pretty sure

Yep - according to his official website:

Driver: NIKE SasQuatch Sumo 460 3-Wood: NIKE SasQuatch 2 15° Hybrid: Adams Idea a2 18° Irons: NIKE Ignite Wedges: NIKE SV 55° sand wedge and 60° lob wedge Putter: Odyssey White Hot Ball: NIKE One Platinum So, given that he's world #7 or #8 or whatever, what does that tell you?

[RichF]

Callaway X Forged are a cavity back. A great many of the TM RAC players play the incredibly sweet RAC TP CB forged by Miura. Most MacGregor forging are Cavities too. Some are also Miuras.

Are they cavity-backs though?

The official site states: ' A forged, Notch-back blade iron designed for elite golfers' They have thin tops, narrow sole and are designed for working the ball.

[Oliver C. Porkman III]

It's because, IMO, using blades you're somehow "forced" to swing properly.

I agree swinging a blade you can not get lazy with your swing. If you do you get reminded immediately that you are not swinging correctly via bad feedback. The upside is that you do make better swings on average and your shots improve with all your clubs as a result.

[Leek]

Are they cavity-backs though?

I've played them. They are Cavity backs as are most Tour RAC TPs.

[Leek]

I agree swinging a blade you can not get lazy with your swing. If you do you get reminded immediately that you are not swinging correctly via bad feedback. The upside is that you do make better swings on average and your shots improve with all your clubs as a result.

To each his own, and I'm wondering if this thread is grouping all forged clubs as blades and all game improvement clubs as cavity backs. There are forged players blades and forged players cavities. Many tour players use forged players cavities, but not the same clubs that are in the stores. By the way, the Callaway X Forged we can buy are not only cavity backs, but the retail version is an ENDO forging. I believe all of the newer Titleists you see on tour are Endo forgings, as are the Callaways. Taylor Mades and old Titlesists (pre- 2002 or 2003) and MacGregors are MIURAs. They are comseticised to look like what we buy. Shoot- even the R7s on tour are forged MIURAs, not even cast clubs, but they use forged them to look like the retail R7 TP, which are cast.

[nykfan4life]

does anyone have an example of a tour player using a disguised miura club? i wanna see that up and close and see if i can tell. Also if you know which miura it actually is, that would be cool to see

[Leek]

Not quite that simple. The companies contract with Endo and Miura to make them, and make them look like the OEMs stuff.

Tiger Woods Nikes? Miuras
David Toms and Sergio Garcia's TMs? Miuras
Tom Lehman's Box toed TM 300s? Miuras
Davis Love's Titleists? Endos
Mickelson and Els Callaways? Endos (of course Cally X Forged are also Endos)
Basically, almost all R7 TPs and all RAC TPs on tour are made by Miura.
All Titleists on tour are Endos.
Heck my MacGregor PCB tours are Miuras. My TourStage Z101s are endos

There is a whole nother world of golf equipment out there that you generally can't buy at Golfsmith or Golf Galaxy!The stuff at retail stores is mainly made in China.
I could go on and on, its most of them except for Ping players. Those really are Pings!

[nykfan4life]

Not quite that simple. The companies contract with Endo and Miura to make them, and make them look like the OEMs stuff.

how would one aquire these clubs. Like a person with absolutely no connections like myself?

[fusioncal]

how would one aquire these clubs. Like a person with absolutely no connections like myself?

Without connections? I don't think you can. Although possibly you could they won't be conveniently priced at MSRP. We're talking thousands of dollars here for a set. Best way to get them is to practice a lot, get good with the game and become a tour pro and then sign a contract with the manufacturers.

[Leek]

how would one aquire these clubs. Like a person with absolutely no connections like myself?

First, save so money. Miura irons run 1200 and up for six clubs, 5 - PW.

With tour concept, Nippon or Project X shafts Then either take your chances on ebay with clubs they claim are from the Tour van, or find a friend with tour connections. The other way is to buy Miuras, Epons (Endo), TourStage, from a Japanese dealer like tourspec golf.

[Leek]

nykfan,

If you're looking for a deal for irons like that, here are some TourStage X Blade CB2s 5-PW for only $995!

http://cgi.ebay.com/NeW-2006-TourSta...QQcmdZViewItem

Being the Tiger fan you are, you could also go for some Tom Stites design Impact Miuras. That what Tiger really plays!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tour-Issue-Miura...QQcmdZViewItem

Expect them to go for about $2200.

[hypergolf]

A local golf club had gathered 200 members to test if people could actually distinguish between forged irons vs cast irons. All grips on the test irons were changed and necessary parts of the clubs which showed hints were all taped up/erased so that no one could guess what club they were hitting with. (Basically they blocked out all possible hints that you could figure out what clubs they are)

The participants had a few observers while doing the test. The participants were handed a club at a time and he would have to hit it immediately without checking the club in any way to find out any visual hints of the club. 5 swings per club, total of 10 clubs. This was the result that came out depending on the handicap range.

+ Handicap: 82% could tell between forged vs cast irons.
0-10 Handicap: 75% could tell between forged vs cast irons.
11-20 Handicap: 74% could tell between forged vs cast irons.
21-30 Handicap: 47% could tell between forged vs cast irons.
30+ Handicap: 55% could tell between forged vs cast irons.

You could have a lot of arguements about this topic but I am just sharing the information I received. Enjoy.

Can you tell the difference between forged vs cast irons just by feel?

[silliwilli]

didnt know my x forged were endo, pleased with that :)

[iacas]

A local golf club had gathered 200 members to test if people could actually distinguish between forged irons vs cast irons. All grips on the test irons were changed and necessary parts of the clubs which showed hints were all taped up/erased so that no one could guess what club they were hitting with. (Basically they blocked out all possible hints that you could figure out what clubs they are)

For this test to be accurate at all, you'd need to have the same model club produced in two different fashions.

I still think it's true that most cast clubs are cavity-backed, and most forged ones are musclebacks. So, that'd be a pretty easy give-away. You'd need to have the same exact model to produce tests with meaningful results. These results could probably just as easily be stated as "golfers can generally tell whether they have a muscleback in their hands or not."

[hypergolf]

For this test to be accurate at all, you'd need to have the same model club produced in two different fashions.

If it was that easy, then the guys who didn't get the right answer (especially the lower handicappers) must be idiots... There were cast blade versions as well (sponsored by the "Made in China")

[iacas]

If it was that easy, then the guys who didn't get the right answer (especially the lower handicappers) must be idiots... There were cast blade versions as well (sponsored by the "Made in China")

Two things: the lower handicappers were "75-82% correct." If you're suggesting it's unreasonable that 18% of a group of people are idiots... perhaps you're among them?

(Just trying to poke a little fun here...). In other words, 18-25% isn't high. And how would you classify the 735.CM? They're forged but play like a cavity-back. So too ar the 775.CBs, but they feel - to just about everyone - like they're cast because they feel very "cavity-backed" like (because they are) and THAT is what people associate with "cast" clubs. As I said, unless the exact same clubs were presented to a variety of golfers and all the variations were made in two further variations - cast and forged - the results are meaningless to me. When you factor in the other studies I've seen through the years about how most golfers can't tell the difference, I've got to give them a whole lot more credence than "some guy" posting results on the Internet without any proof, methodology, etc.