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Master "Forged vs. Cast" or "Blade vs. Game-Improvement" Iron Thread


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Quote: Originally Posted by dak4n6 Originally Posted by newtogolf cav·i·ty /ˈkavitē/ - An empty space within a

Here's my next set of irons. They're real butter knives. But seriously, here, what are these: Musclebacks? Yes, I'd say so. Cavity backs? No. Blades? Nope. (

If you have to ask whether or not you should be hitting blades,  you shouldnt be hitting blades.

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better in which way?

Apples and Oranges. Not all forged clubs feel softer than cast. As a matter of fact alot of forged, unless pured (by pured I mean flush contact of the ball on the face), feel down right harsh!

Majority of Ultra Game improvement and Mid GI improvement irons are cast, but there are GI irons that are also forged. People tend to associate forged clubs with "players"/ low handicappers because of workability and feel of ball on slight miss-hits. Technology has come along way and there are alot of GI forged clubs out there today.
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For a high handicap player a cast iron set may be the right set to start with . A lot of the newer models are built with forgivenes in mind . For the forged set of which can be blades or cavity backs these are for those who may want to work the ball and therefore has the feel factor . I cant say much as to which is better . Give me any decent iron and i can hit it just as well as any scratch player .
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Cheaper?

David Duval shot a 59 with cast 962 irons on a Sunday. The Phil Mickelson 731PM irons are cast (he won the Masters with them). Ping irons are cast.

Better? Newer? Cheaper? What's your point?

Newer doesn't always equal gooder/better. Same with the forged moniker vs. cast.
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How about the best of both worlds. If you can get your hands on a set of Hogan FTX irons, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. E-8 are blades. 7-2 are cavity backed. I think Titleist and a few other brands came out w/ a similar set. Sets start out as blades with the scoring irons and gradually morph to a more forgiving cavity as they get longer, I think may be the answer to your predicament.

Funny you should say that. The set I'm looking at in the top priority spot for my next irons (3-6 months from now) has that feature. A,P-8 are blades, 7-5 are cavity backs. So are 4-2, but I won't be getting those.

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I would suggest mixing your set, but check the lofts on the different sets. I know the titleist 695 set differ up to 3 degrees from each other. I dont think mizuno differs as much, but check.
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I have a set of Taylor Made r7 Draw (3-PW) irons with graphite shaft and I have trouble controlling the shots, sometimes pushing or pulling, but not slicing. I took a guess on my handicap based off the teaching pro at the driving range i go to. I generally shoot in the mid to high 80's after this being only my 3rd summer playing golf (I began shooting in the 140's).

I find myself having little control in my iron game, so im moving over to steel shafted clubs but since i've considerably gotten better since I started playing golf, which was only three years ago, im moving to forged clubs (my friends think im crazy). I bought some Taylor Made RAC TP/MB forged irons after about 2 months of trying out various clubs because they felt really comfortable. It doesnt bother me that they're 2006 models, as these will be my first go at forged irons and I didnt want to break the bank (I was able to find a set of demo's with barely any noticeable wear for over half off).

Are my friends right in that im going to struggle big time? I think I wont because I think my issues are with my short game (pitching from 20 yards in) and putting. I just think if im going to take that next step, that this is the challenge I need. Any thoughts or advice?
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I have a set of Taylor Made r7 Draw (3-PW) irons with graphite shaft and I have trouble controlling the shots, sometimes pushing or pulling, but not slicing. I took a guess on my handicap based off the teaching pro at the driving range i go to. I generally shoot in the mid to high 80's after this being only my 3rd summer playing golf (I began shooting in the 140's).

Well, just based on what you wrote, the real challenge you have is to improve your pitching and putting. Buying new irons is not going to help you improve in this area.

That being said, you're moving from some game-improving clubs to some elite player's clubs, which is a pretty big jump. Overall, you'll notice some loss in forgiveness and your ball trajectory will be lower than your previous irons. How much you struggle, if any, with these new clubs is anyone's guess at this point. And, it really doesn't matter what your buddies (or anyone else on this site) thinks because it's what you think that matters the most since you'll be using them. The only advice that I would give you is to have your new clubs fitted to your swing. Other than that, start practicing and playing with your new clubs. Don't be too discouraged if you don't do well the first few times out with them. It takes a few rounds to get acclimated to them. From there, you'll be able to assess whether or not these clubs are "too much club" for you. DT
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I had another lesson today, and my dad told my coach that I had a set of MP-32s in the house. He asked me why I didn't play them and I said my MX-23s were more forgiving. His reply was: "forgiving lies to you", he also said that all of his students with high aspirations used blades because they kept the fundamentals in check and that there is always the drive to get better when playing unforgiving clubs. I guess I'll be playing blades now. Maybe that's why the old days developed amazing ball-strikers like Ben Hogan, there weren't any cavity backs. Of course, there's always two sides to the argument...
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  • 2 weeks later...
Forged was once defined as one piece of metal that was manually shaped (bending and beating with hammers) into final form and later forged was included to include machine assisted shaping (just assisted bending and shaping). The classic way to tell if something is cast or forged is by bending the item and cast items will usually break before they will double over. Forged items were more expensive because of the additional labor, but they offer the advantage of 1) ususally holding a edge better (as in damascus steel), and 2) less prone to breakage understress.

Forged golf clubs had to be simply shaped because they would otherwise have to cost thousands of dollars each because of all the extra labor it would take to make say a cavity back "forged" iron. My personal opinion is that forged irons were favored by golfers originally simply because they didn't break easily like a cast club can do. The preference had nothing to do with "feel".

If they truly were of the same exact design and with the same shaft and grip probably 99% of golfers, including tour pros, couldn't tell the difference. Most of today's "forged" irons are not true forged steel; Mizuono calls their "forged" irons something like "cast forged" or "forged castings" (they are cast).

The point is that today's casting technology (like high strength water casting) produces steel that is virtually indistinguishable from forged steel in density and toughness. I have head the lie changed on several PING cast Stainless Steel club heads; 40 years ago a cast club would have broken if you tried to change its lie. In fact, some might say today's castings are superior to forged in that they tend to return to their original shape more than true forged steel when bent.

I am sure some forged clubs started with forged steel and then a CNC mill was used to shape the head, remove a cavity and even cut the grooves and drill the shaft hole. In fact, all better clubs could be made this way if forged steel was "better".

It looks like clubs are starting to go the way of the PING rapture with an assembly of multiple parts made form a variety of materials (SS body, titanium face, tungsten weights and plastic vibration deadeners on the Rapture I believe).

As far as cheap clubs go (especially chinese copies), they could be made of anything, including pot metal or painted plastic. If you ever hit a Chinese fraud, you'll know it immediately from its dismal performance (I remember when we said that about Japanese clubs).
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If they truly were of the same exact design and with the same shaft and grip probably 99% of golfers, including tour pros, couldn't tell the difference. .

I agree completely. IMHO the difference between cast and forged clubs (as far as feel goes) is in the design of the club head. Casting is MUCH easier to make "exotic" club heads that you just can't make by forging.

If you cast a "blade" and forged the exact same blade (design), you would be hard pressed to tell the difference (as far as feel goes) assuming the same kind of metal is used.
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Mizuono calls their "forged" irons something like "cast forged" or "forged castings" (they are cast).

As far as I know, Mizuno calls them grain-flow forged and they are very high quality

forged clubs. Please post links if possible. Thanks.
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Most of today's "forged" irons are not true forged steel; Mizuono calls their "forged" irons something like "cast forged" or "forged castings" (they are cast).

Mizuno forging method is called Grain Flow Forging NOT cast forged nor forged castings. Moreover, there's no such thing Mizuno "cast forged" their irons. Indeed they have some line of irons that are cast, but when it's forged such as the MP series, they ARE forged NOT cast.

You're implying that all forged irons are actually cast. I don't know where you get this info, but it is definitely misleading. Unless you work at Miura, Endo, Chuo, etc and know their deep secret that they never forge golf clubs, please make sure you get the facts right before you post. Thank you.
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I agree completely. IMHO the difference between cast and forged clubs (as far as feel goes) is in the design of the club head. Casting is MUCH easier to make "exotic" club heads that you just can't make by forging.

True enough.

"If you have a cast iron and a forged iron of exactly the same shape and weight distribution design, the same loft, the same center of gravity position in the two heads, and the heads are built with the same shaft, same length, same grip and same swingweight/MOI, hitting the same ball, the shots will fly identical distances and 99-percent of all golfers will never know which was forged and which was cast." - Tom Wishon
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  • iacas changed the title to Perimeter Weighted Irons vs. Forged

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