Drills to make swing inside out

[mvmac]

The ideal flight path is a draw, which is produced by slight, controlable counter clockwise spin. To accomplish this, you have to have the club face square (perpendicular, not closed or open) to your target line at impact and have the club face approach the ball slightly from the inside. This imparts a slight counter clockwise spin. The ball will start a little to the right, then curve back to the center. A fade is the opposite of a draw.

If the ball is starting right of the target, the face needs to be aimed right of the target. Ball starts where the face is pointed and curves away from the path.

[AvocadoWillie]

I'm confused by this? I hit the ball sometimes that curves to the left and low and my instructor says it's because i'm swinging over the top. He told me all balls that start left and curve that way are from swinging in this fashion. He's been having me swing more to the right as hard as I can to the point where it feels really uncomfortable. Its been almost a week and it doesn't seem to be working though. He didn't say anything about the face of the club however, only that the swing path going more in to out would fix the ball going left?

[Abu3baid]

I'm confused by this? I hit the ball sometimes that curves to the left and low and my instructor says it's because i'm swinging over the top. He told me all balls that start left and curve that way are from swinging in this fashion. He's been having me swing more to the right as hard as I can to the point where it feels really uncomfortable. Its been almost a week and it doesn't seem to be working though. He didn't say anything about the face of the club however, only that the swing path going more in to out would fix the ball going left?

It's a good thing that he is working with you one on thing at a time though.. When I saw my coach not too long ago I spent 5 lessons over a months time working on just the path of the club.. Because it is the one thing that really needs to change at the moment, and even with my club face all over the place we kept drilling in the path going to the right.. Once you are able to consistently get the path out to the right 3-4 * then you can work on adjusting the face to accommodate that path.. it has really helped me to lay down alignment stickers facing 45* out and practicing getting the path to follow the sticks (seems like an exaggeration, but I was only able to achieve 3-4* while trying to swing 40* to the right) Stick with it.

[Patch]

Something that might help is to go to your local dollar, or toy store and buy a hula hoop. That, or bend a piece of 1/2" PVC into a 1/2 circle. Then with the 1/2 circle in front of you, just swing the club head to approximate the 1/2 circle curvature of the hula hoop, or bent PVC. To be more exact I am talking about laying the device(s) flat on the ground.

[Sassafrass]

I've been using the gate drill.  I put  a club cover to the front left of the ball and a club cover to the back right of the ball.  I try to hit the ball with out hitting the club covers.  The drill has been helping a great deal with getting rid of my over the top swing fault.

[dennyjones]

I've use yoga blocks for the gate drill and a swim noodle bent to help with an in to out swing path.   If you separate your hands on the club and swing it will almost be impossible to swing OTT.

[bm85]

Imagine a spot on the ground is the ball. Setup to it.

Take the club and go diagonally outside the line across that ball, like you imagine you would from an in/out swing post impact.

Go in reverse. Take the club back in to the top of your back swing. Then swing back out slowly to that same area. Repeat several times to you get a feel for what an in/out path actually is.

It will clue your body in what it needs to do to manipulate an in/out swing. From this foundation, you can fine tune your swing.

[iacas]

I'm confused by this? I hit the ball sometimes that curves to the left and low and my instructor says it's because i'm swinging over the top. He told me all balls that start left and curve that way are from swinging in this fashion. He's been having me swing more to the right as hard as I can to the point where it feels really uncomfortable. Its been almost a week and it doesn't seem to be working though. He didn't say anything about the face of the club however, only that the swing path going more in to out would fix the ball going left?

Your instructor is possibly (probably?) wrong.

The ball's initial starting direction is much closer to where the face is pointing than the path.

If the ball starts left, you probably have the face pointing left at impact. If it curves left from there, you're already swinging to the right of that left-pointing clubface.

[mvmac]

I'm confused by this? I hit the ball sometimes that curves to the left and low and my instructor says it's because i'm swinging over the top. He told me all balls that start left and curve that way are from swinging in this fashion. He's been having me swing more to the right as hard as I can to the point where it feels really uncomfortable. Its been almost a week and it doesn't seem to be working though. He didn't say anything about the face of the club however, only that the swing path going more in to out would fix the ball going left?

Where the clubface points at impact determines where the ball starts. So you could swing left, right or straight and have the ball start left.

[AvocadoWillie]

Your instructor is possibly (probably?) wrong.

The ball's initial starting direction is much closer to where the face is pointing than the path.

If the ball starts left, you probably have the face pointing left at impact. If it curves left from there, you're already swinging to the right of that left-pointing clubface.

Really? Wow, now i'm super confused. This guy is supposed to be the best and has been teaching for like 20 years. He's been telling me to swing in the direction I want to start the ball. He said it started left because I was swinging left. So all I've been doing for the last week is exaggerating ( what feels to me) like a huge inside out swing. The ball does seem to start a little further right than where it was before, but it's definitely still going left when I hit one bad. Where are you guys learning this information from? Not saying anybody's right or anybody's wrong...but this doesn't quite seem right?

[mvmac]

Really? Wow, now i'm super confused. This guy is supposed to be the best and has been teaching for like 20 years. He's been telling me to swing in the direction I want to start the ball. He said it started left because I was swinging left. The ball does seem to start a little further right than where it was before, but it's definitely still going left when I hit one bad. Where are you guys learning this information from? Not saying anybody's right or anybody's wrong...but this doesn't quite seem right?

It's just the way it is. Pros have been teaching the incorrect ball flight laws for decades.

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

The ball does seem to start a little further right than where it was before, but it's definitely still going left when I hit one bad.

Yes if you start swinging it more right, you'll "figure it out" and instinctually start the point the face a little more right. Good players can run into problems with this because timing (rate the face closes) can become an issue when they start swinging too far outward. End up hitting hooks and big pushes and they're told to swing MORE out to the right.

Just going off your handicap there is a good chance the clubhead overtakes the hands at a fast rate, also known as flipping or casting. This will send the path left and point the face left.

[JazzFatCat]

Really? Wow, now i'm super confused. This guy is supposed to be the best and has been teaching for like 20 years. He's been telling me to swing in the direction I want to start the ball. He said it started left because I was swinging left. So all I've been doing for the last week is exaggerating ( what feels to me) like a huge inside out swing. The ball does seem to start a little further right than where it was before, but it's definitely still going left when I hit one bad. Where are you guys learning this information from? Not saying anybody's right or anybody's wrong...but this doesn't quite seem right?

Ya with the advent of Trackman (and other software systems that try to predict where the ball is going to go) it has been proven that the starting direction is mostly governed by the face angle and the curve is mostly governed by the club path (which is the opposite of what teachers said ten years ago).

There is also a "gear effect" which basically means that balls hit in the toe of the club draw more and balls hit in the heel fade more.

http://mytrackman.com/university/learning-tools/d---plane-and-gearing-effect

http://mytrackman.com/university/learning-tools/understanding-the-d---plane

[tomvk77]

A good drill is the old head cover drill.

Put a head cover under your right arm and keep it there.

It may fall down after you hit the golfball, swing the club outside in and it will fall on the backswing

[Bileyerheid]

Where the clubface points at impact determines where the ball starts. So you could swing left, right or straight and have the ball start left.

Surely your face angles would have to be rather extreme for the ball to actually start left when you are swinging right (in to out).

[iacas]

Surely your face angles would have to be rather extreme for the ball to actually start left when you are swinging right (in to out).

Not really, no.

Face: -4° left.

Path: 10° right.

Ball will start to the left.

[Bileyerheid]

Not really, no.

Face: -4° left.

Path: 10° right.

Ball will start to the left.

I'm guessing you are talking about the face relative to the target and not path. That would be 14° closed to path. Quite extreme. A ball struck like this would start left of path but not left of target. It could or would finish left of target

As a matter of interest, I think of only one correct path along an inclined plane. The in to in path is created with parallel set up, the in to out path would be created with a closed stance and vice versa for the out to in path. Therefore there are only three flights, straight, slice and hook. I know, with a swing fault, a golfer can create an over the top out to in path but that shouldn't be a consideration for a flight law.

[iacas]

I'm guessing you are talking about the face relative to the target and not path. That would be 14° closed to path. Quite extreme. A ball struck like this would start left of path but not left of target. It could or would finish left of target

Assuming reasonable contact and a club longer than about an 8-iron, that ball starts left of target. Not by a lot, but the face dominates where the ball starts, not the path. This one starts left too: Path 2 degrees, face -1 degrees. Both relative to target. [quote name="Bileyerheid" url="/t/13998/drills-to-make-swing-inside-out/30#post_1166318"]As a matter of interest, I think of only one correct path along an inclined plane. The in to in path is created with parallel set up, the in to out path would be created with a closed stance and vice versa for the out to in path. Therefore there are only three flights, straight, slice and hook. I know, with a swing fault, a golfer can create an over the top out to in path but that shouldn't be a consideration for a flight law.[/quote] Virtually no PGA Tour players swing along your "one" path. It's folly to consider only that and to consider everything else a swing flaw. Snead hit pull draws. Trevino push fades. Rory draws. Jack fades.

[Bileyerheid]

Assuming reasonable contact and a club longer than about an 8-iron, that ball starts left of target. Not by a lot, but the face dominates where the ball starts, not the path.

This one starts left too:

Path 2 degrees, face -1 degrees. Both relative to target.

I need more time to get my head around this. I can visualise the 2nd example starting left of target as the conditions are closer with -1° to +2° but -14° to +10°. Interesting.

Virtually no PGA Tour players swing along your "one" path. It's folly to consider only that and to consider everything else a swing flaw. Snead hit pull draws. Trevino push fades. Rory draws. Jack fades.

Snead hit pull draws with a closed stance and not an over the top move. Trevino, Couples, Lehman etc open stance. Rory closed and Jack open. I'm not suggesting that golfers should not shape shots or that they shouldn't adjust their feet alignment. I'm suggesting they learn to swing on a consistent inclined plane for all shots.