Relative Importance of Driving/Approach Shots, Short Game, Putting, etc. (LSW, Mark Broadie, Strokes Gained, etc.)

[inthehole]

It is interesting.  I'm the opposite.  Had to quit carrying driver to get handicap down - which is basically the same as yours.  Curious - do you know how many greens you get or putts you make during a typical round?

sorry, I'm not a great stat keeper - I really should do that to track progress.   I will do that next year - my new years golf resolution

[iacas]

The short game is the No. 1 most important thing in golf.

It really isn't. Virtually nobody three putts and double chips enough to make for more strokes than their long games cost them. Do some reading - you'll be surprised.

[CR McDivot]

FIR begets GIR.

GIR begets Birdie opportunity.

OB or water begets Bogie, or Par if your scrambling is good enough to save you.

Blown chips/wedges and 3 putts stink to high heaven.

Accuracy and consistency are paramount for every shot. Avoiding a lost stroke (or worse a penalty) opens the door for a lower score.

You get 2 putts per hole. Seems to me there are more opportunities to 1 putt than to drive par 4s or hit 5s in 2.

The long and short of it... EVERY shot counts!

[mvmac]

The short game is the No. 1 most important thing in golf. If you're three-putting all the time, and taking double chips, you're throwing away 1.5 strokes a hole for no good reason.

It really isn't. Virtually nobody three putts and double chips enough to make for more strokes than their long games cost them. Do some reading - you'll be surprised.

WUTiger, please take a look at this

http://thesandtrap.com/t/58816/65-25-10-practice-ratios-where-to-devote-your-practice-time/324#post_911781

[flopster]

I guess it really depends on where your at in the development of your game, I notice I can keep up with most scratch players from tee to green most of the time and where I let strokes slip away is usually around the green.

[JetFan1983]

Sorry, don't take this the wrong way guys because I'm not trying to sound cocky here, but the short game is so unbelievably easy to learn compared to the long game. If you are struggling with your short game out there, I'm willing to bet it's not because you were cursed to never have any touch or something like that. You're probably doing something incredibly dumb, like using the leading edge way too much, or playing balls from the back of your stance all the time, or something really stupid like that. Or no one explained how much speed you have to use or where you should put the ball or how the bounce works or something....

You guys cannot tell me that people who can consistently keep a 300 yard drive or a 230 yard 4-iron in play do not have an insane advantage over the rest of us. Guys like that can play from 7000+ yards like it's nothing. Obviously you don't need to hit 300 yard drives to play from that far back (250 is fine), but still... 7000+ yard golf is the modern game.... not "training wheels" golf like those of us who play from 6400 yards or something (like me).

Look at it this way: if you hit 16/18 GIR or something, wow, that's 16 birdie chances!!! How can you possibly argue against that? 16 tries at birdie? And what if they're from like 10-20 feet all the time? That's exciting to me just thinking about something like that... being that good at hitting a golf ball. And that's fairly doable if you play from like 6300-6600 yards or something most of the time (at sea level). You've got a wedge in your hands a lot of the time at that length.

I dunno, guys.... a good teacher can get an average dude good at the short game relatively quickly.... but long game, wow, does that take serious work. That's doable too, but that can take a while.

Sorry if I'm rambling, but I just don't get why people think short game is so much more important.... do all of you play with putters that aren't fitted well to you? Or do you like never use the bounce? How hard is it to get up and down from 15 yards? Really? Or at worst, make bogey? There's a reason the short game stat is called "scrambling" after all.... you're literally scrambling your ass off to save par.... with the long game however... you're beating the piss out of the golf course! And isn't that the goal?

Sorry if I'm coming off as aggressive with this post... obviously I enjoy the debate and this is just an opinion I respect the opposing view too because, well, knowing how to get up and down and not screw up lag putts is huge, no question....

[Mr. Desmond]

If you've got soft hands, are relaxed, have decent technique, and practice, an above average short game is for the taking.

The long game requires more...

[wils5150]

I have always had this thought in my mind. one putting is great but who cares if its for a 8 lol

[Robster 7]

There aren't many people who I play with regularly who can hit it past me consistently and are a higher handicap than me. I'd say that if you can increase length and accuracy off the tee you will be a better player because you'll have to rely less on your short game. You obviously also have to be able to work it around the greens too but I'd take an extra 15yds(straight) with my driver over being great out of a bunker anyday.

[David in FL]

I have always had this thought in my mind. one putting is great but who cares if its for a 8 lol

Yup

[MS256]

I have always had this thought in my mind. one putting is great but who cares if its for a 8 lol

Yep. Good scrambling is great (and certainly better than nothing) but it doesn't beat a game that doesn't require it very often.

[Mr. Desmond]

That's what I like about this board -- more openminded, intelligent, and challenges you to re-think the game.

[David in FL]

That's what I like about this board -- more openminded, intelligent, and challenges you to re-think the old myths of the game.

Yup.

I've probably learned more about the game......specifically about playing the game, in the last few years from this community, than I have in the entire previous 35 years or so.  It really is amazing what a good board, with a knowledgeable leadership and community, can do for those that pay attention and have an interest in learning.

[Robster 7]

Drive for Dough! Just ask Dustin Johnson.

[GangGreen]

That's what I like about this board -- more openminded, intelligent, and challenges you to re-think the game.

Couldn't agree more, I've only been on the forum for a short time (since August I believe) and can't tell you how much I've learned. It's gotten to the point that when I'm struggling with a particular side of my game, my first step is usually to search the forum for suggestions. As for the forum topic, I'm not a baseball fan per se, but the short game to me is similar to having a good set-up guy and closer. You have to have them to be a great baseball team (or, in our case, a great golfer) but if your starting pitching can't get you into those late innings with a lead (ie. you have no long game) then they're not nearly as useful.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Executive summary: The long game is quite important. More important than the short game.

.

I'm not going to argue with a golf pro, but what you said seems to apply more in the case of the elite players (low hcp'ers) - not for the average golfer (excluding the bangers who really aren't trying to keep a score card).     I guess I'm basing my opinion on myself - pretty much your basic average serious golfer - short game (for me) costs me more strokes than the long game without question ... there's just no disputing that - maybe I'm not in the hcp range that this model works for ?    I simply can't fathom this entire concept of the long game being more important than the short game  unless one is an elite player, because they have the short game down, and have to really go after it off the tee as they're usually competing from the back tee's)  ...

I agree with this.  Precision is more important in the short game.  I can miss fairways all day, but as long as I keep the ball in play, I have a chance to recover.  On a par 4 hole, I put my tee shot in the rough, where I may even have to play under or over a tree.  I still have a couple of shots to work out a recovery and get the ball near the hole.   The closer you get to the hole the fewer chances remain for recovering a lost stroke.  If I'm 3 yards off the green in regulation, I expect to put my chip within a reasonable one putt range.  If I fail at that, or worse leave the ball in the rough or skull it across the green, I no longer have any real chance to recover.  I've known too many players higher than my handicap range with much better long games than mine, yet I have usually been able to out score them because of my short game.

When it takes a player 4 or 5 strokes to get down from 70 or 80 yards, then all they are doing is driving for show.

I'll add to that that I am a casual player, and I'm not willing to spend 10 hours a week doing nothing but practicing.  If I have a half hour or an hour to work on my game, I see better results from practicing my chipping and putting.

[Ernest Jones]

I agree with this.  Precision is more important in the short game.  I can miss fairways all day, but as long as I keep the ball in play, I have a chance to recover.  On a par 4 hole, I put my tee shot in the rough, where I may even have to play under or over a tree.  I still have a couple of shots to work out a recovery and get the ball near the hole.   The closer you get to the hole the fewer chances remain for recovering a lost stroke.  If I'm 3 yards off the green in regulation, I expect to put my chip within a reasonable one putt range.  If I fail at that, or worse leave the ball in the rough or skull it across the green, I no longer have any real chance to recover.  I've known too many players higher than my handicap range with much better long games than mine, yet I have usually been able to out score them because of my short game.

When it takes a player 4 or 5 strokes to get down from 70 or 80 yards, then all they are doing is driving for show.

I'll add to that that I am a casual player, and I'm not willing to spend 10 hours a week doing nothing but practicing.  If I have a half hour or an hour to work on my game, I see better results from practicing my chipping and putting.

I think the point is that with a better long game you won't be 3 yards off the green, you'll be hitting that green and putting instead.

[iacas]

Three yards off the green isn't bad.

PGA Tour pros only average, what, 12 or 13 GIR?

I've shot under par hitting 8 GIR. Many of the others were on the fringe or really close, but still.

8 GIR with a lot of shots very close to the green is a "good long game" too. No penalties. No OB. No water. Etc.