Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game?

[iacas]

@amished, what does dressing up for a funeral or wedding “add” to either of those gatherings?

You’re asking a bogus question.

A business has the right to do as it sees fit to help its business. If enough of their customers want a dress code then it makes business sense to have one.

It can also make legal sense, as the ultimate in no dress codes would be nudity. And no shoes may be a cleanliness concern.

[Cantankerish]

1 hour ago, billchao said:

I'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point.

I certainly hope so.  That has nothing to do with the Equal Rights Amendment.

Oh, and by the way...ERA does not exist.

[David in FL]

17 hours ago, amished said:

 

It might be fun to dress up if I choose (and I agree, it is nice to dress nice when I want to) but when I want to and being forced to are two different things.

You’re never “forced” to.  It’s your decision, and nobody else’s whether you want to play there or not.

[amished]

For the Funeral/Wedding question: it's a sign of respect to the people/family involved, not some business.  That respect to a person/family I care about is what it adds.  However, if I don't dress up for a round of golf, I'm not going to go out on a golf course and drive over the greens or anything, I'm going to respect the rules of golf.  Clothing doesn't affect how respectful I am to a place of business.

Now if I didn't do my research and went to a course that had a dress code, I'm forced to change what I'm wearing or I can't play there.  I'm not debating if the establishment has the right to do so, of course they do.  But I don't see where having such a dress code is beneficial which is what I'm trying to understand.

[Vinsk]

2 minutes ago, amished said:

it's a sign of respect to the people/family involved,

Right. And many golf courses want their patrons to dress in their code for the same reasons.

5 minutes ago, amished said:

I'm not going to go out on a golf course and drive over the greens or anything,

Right. And you’re not going to get drunk and curse out guests, pee in the flowers or disrupt the wedding, so why not just wear what you want?

[amished]

I don't equate respect for people that I know and like well enough to celebrate a once in a lifetime (hopefully) event to a regular leisure occurrence.  But if you do, I'm glad.  

[David in FL]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

It can also make legal sense, as the ultimate in no dress codes would be nudity. And no shoes may be a cleanliness concern.

Right!  

EVERY course has a dress code...and that’s obviously a good thing.  What less than 20% of the respondents here are complaining about is simply a matter of where the line is drawn.  

If a course told me that I had to play in coat and tie, I wouldn’t call it “bad for the game”, I just wouldn’t play there.  Ultimately they might find it bad for business if enough other players felt the same way.  Given the popularity of golf, and the most common dress requirement, very, very few consider the current common standard onerous...

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, amished said:

For the Funeral/Wedding question: it's a sign of respect to the people/family involved, not some business.

People run the business. Your fellow golfer participates in the business. They're all people.

25 minutes ago, amished said:

That respect to a person/family I care about is what it adds.

It can add the same thing to golf: respect for someone else's wishes, respect for your fellow golfers, respect for the environment and culture they're trying to create and you wish to participate in.

25 minutes ago, amished said:

However, if I don't dress up for a round of golf, I'm not going to go out on a golf course and drive over the greens or anything

There's where your argument jumps the shark. You could dress in a shredded wife beater and swim trunks at a funeral and behave perfectly respectfully, too, but you probably don't, because the clothes you wear matter as a sign to others.

25 minutes ago, amished said:

Clothing doesn't affect how respectful I am to a place of business.

Not to argue against myself (because the behavior aspect is still a very, very, very distant point), but you're wrong if you think the manner in which people dress doesn't affect their behavior.

25 minutes ago, amished said:

But I don't see where having such a dress code is beneficial which is what I'm trying to understand.

Re-read the topic, or at least some of the posts.

2 minutes ago, amished said:

I don't equate respect for people that I know and like well enough to celebrate a once in a lifetime (hopefully) event to a regular leisure occurrence.  But if you do, I'm glad.  

The point there was simply that there are reasons you don't just "wear whatever you want" to a wedding or to a funeral. You don't just wear whatever you want to a nice restaurant, do you? Or to a ton of places. Heck, the person in the funeral is DEAD. They couldn't care less what you're wearing.

Dress codes are not the "evil" that many act like they are.

So what does dressing up as required by a dress code "add" to golf? It adds the outward signal that you respect the owners, your fellow golfers, etc. It adds to the idea and belief of the social contract we have with each other.

I get what you're saying about how it's not "good" for the game, but just as you can be perfectly respectful and so on at a funeral in a wife beater and swim trunks, it's undeniably "more good" to dress appropriately.

[mcanadiens]

It's sort of like getting a steak.

You can wear shorts and a T-shirt into an Outback restaurant and get a steak. You could go to Sparks in Manhattan (outside of where Castellano was killed)  and get a steak as well but you better be wearing a suit jacket and bring a whole lot of money. Both places not only sell steak. They sell a particular experience designed for a particular segment of the market. For the average diner at Sparks, part of that experience is actually seeing everyone wearing fancy clothes. Petty as it may seem for the more practical of us, they pay hundreds of dollars for a meal in part because they don't want to see you in your shorts. 

It is a truly awesome thing to have the variety of consumer choices we do at this point in history. Luckily for us, we can choose the golf courses and steak houses we spend our money at and get maximum enjoyment based on our individual preferences.

[Southern by Choice]

Excellent steak house analogy, mcanadiens!  Sometimes it’s not just about the "steak"—or the golf—but about the entire experience.

 

I admit to being fascinated by how long this discussion has gone on with a group of guys...about what is basically a fashion issue!  (I know, I know—that wasn’t the initial point of the thread, but that’s where it’s gone.) Very evolved. 😉

[djake]

@mcanadiens I like your analogy pretty it much sums it up,

I play golf at all levels of courses.  From courses that are exceptionally exclusive to "farm filed" type courses.  I like them all and they all have their type of dress code. 

What I have discovered about myself is when I know the particular dress code for that course I can at least feel like I fit in.  Some of these courses I have been fortunate to be invited to play on I will never be able to afford them, ever.  I was thrilled to be wearing my nicest set of golf apparel.  And at one course I was politely told to tuck in my shirt and I joyfully did that. 

Like me and my friends say - "It's just clothes, now let's enjoy the setting."

And by the way, anyone can get a super deal on the most comfortable moisture wicking golf shirts and golf shorts/slacks if you only shop around.  They are more comfortable then cargos and a t-shirt by far and especially during those hot and humid days.

As far as the question -  "Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game"

My answer is, no impact at all on the game. 

The only reason it is bad for the game is if you the specific individual want to get hung up on the idea of wearing a shirt with a collar and forgo the blue jeans.  If you don't want to, find the course that doesn't care what you wear as long as you wear clothes and play those course.  No harm in that.

As far as my 19 year old son and all of his college buddies just learning the game this summer.  They all went to the "farm field" type golf course and they all wore nice shirts with collars and nice shorts, even though the course did not have a formal dress code.  All 8 of them had the same reason, they wanted to at least look the part while learning the game.

[Double Mocha Man]

23 minutes ago, djake said:

@mcanadiens I like your analogy pretty it much sums it up,

I play golf at all levels of courses.  From courses that are exceptionally exclusive to "farm filed" type courses.  I like them all and they all have their type of dress code. 

What I have discovered about myself is when I know the particular dress code for that course I can at least feel like I fit in.  Some of these courses I have been fortunate to be invited to play on I will never be able to afford them, ever.  I was thrilled to be wearing my nicest set of golf apparel.  And at one course I was politely told to tuck in my shirt and I joyfully did that. 

Like me and my friends say - "It's just clothes, now let's enjoy the setting."

And by the way, anyone can get a super deal on the most comfortable moisture wicking golf shirts and golf shorts/slacks if you only shop around.  They are more comfortable then cargos and a t-shirt by far and especially during those hot and humid days.

As far as the question -  "Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game"

My answer is, no impact at all on the game. 

The only reason it is bad for the game is if you the specific individual want to get hung up on the idea of wearing a shirt with a collar and forgo the blue jeans.  If you don't want to, find the course that doesn't care what you wear as long as you wear clothes and play those course.  No harm in that.

As far as my 19 year old son and all of his college buddies just learning the game this summer.  They all went to the "farm field" type golf course and they all wore nice shirts with collars and nice shorts, even though the course did not have a formal dress code.  All 8 of them had the same reason, they wanted to at least look the part while learning the game.

Great post, but it begs the question: Should you tuck in your shirt on the golf course?  Or is that a topic for another thread?

[rehmwa]

12 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Great post, but it begs the question: Should you tuck in your shirt on the golf course?  Or is that a topic for another thread?

it's the same answer as the rest - do what's comfy for you.  Unless the private course has a code on it.  Then follow that rule or play elsewhere.  I prefer untucked for my comfort and swing....unless my shorts are loose, then I might tuck it in to help keep them from slipping to that, just barely uncomfortable spot right just at my hips....I hate that.

Summary so far:

1. it seems that dress codes aren't good or bad for the game - they just exist to cater to whatever market is in play
2. Some people really like to tell others how to act - for random reasons, some maybe good, some just silly
3. Other people don't like to be TOLD what to do, but will likely follow rules and suggestions as long as they are presented to them politely and not snottily or self righteously

I'd say dress codes are administered best if - they are clearly defined, not biased between random groups, very visible and not assumed, and enforced in pleasant and polite ways.  Unfortunately, those that are really triggered by it are the most likely not to be polite about it - much like pretty much anything in society.

Edited September 11, 2019 by rehmwa

[Double Mocha Man]

16 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

it's the same answer as the rest - do what's comfy for you.  Unless the private course has a code on it.  Then follow that rule or play elsewhere.  I prefer untucked for my comfort and swing....unless my shorts are loose, then I might tuck it in to help keep them from slipping to that, just barely uncomfortable spot right just at my hips....I hate that.

Summary so far:

1. it seems that dress codes aren't good or bad for the game - they just exist to cater to whatever market is in play
2. Some people really like to tell others how to act - for random reasons, some maybe good, some just silly
3. Other people don't like to be TOLD what to do, but will likely follow rules and suggestions as long as they are presented to them politely and not snottily or self righteously

I'd say dress codes are administered best if - they are clearly defined, not biased between random groups, very visible and not assumed, and enforced in pleasant and polite ways.  Unfortunately, those that are really triggered by it are the most likely not to be polite about it - much like pretty much anything in society.

earlier in the year Rickie Fowler wore a golf shirt that he didn't have to tuck in. And he got prior permission from the PGA to do so.

[limbo]

Scrap them altogether. Wear what you want. Get the numbers up. Play in a chicken suit for all I care.

What you wear and the general snobbishness of golf is at huge detriment to the game. There are two generations of younger folk being massively deterred from playing by all this old fashioned nonsense (and also by a certain orange-tinged premier ), and the whole game has awful PR as a result. It needs to be FAR more inclusive.

I'm a very keen golfer and it drives me mad that I can be playing a course with such strict rules in and around the clubhouse when they don't even enforce the ones that truly make the game enjoyable. Golf needs to adapt. Rory wears collarless shirts in the Majors.

Relax the dresscode ASAP. The only clause should be to make sure the footwear is suitable. The rest should be as optional as what bag you use or what balls you hit.

Edited September 11, 2019 by limbo

[amished]

@iacas If you went to any super private/exclusive course, and you were allowed to wear anything you wanted from just your underwear to a 3 piece suit and anything in between, if you chose to wear just your underwear would you respect golf less?  Would you respect the course less?  Why?

If we say that wearing certain clothes is "more good" for Golf, then we should do that everywhere.  If it's truly the best thing that we can do for golf on the apparel topic, why wouldn't we want to make every golf course have a dress code?  

Tangentially, why is the PGA relaxing their dress code if it was better for the game of golf?  What level of dress code helps?  Collared shirts?  They don't require that anymore.  No shorts?  It's allowed for practice rounds (I think...).  I can't imagine these decisions are hurting golf, but if it was better for golf why wouldn't they want to keep it the way it was?  

Above all, I believe that a corporation will try to do what is in its best interest to make money.  If they think that they can get more people to watch, or to get out and potentially be the next Tiger, Rory, Brooks, DJ or whomever so that they can make money off of their popularity, why wouldn't they keep the same dress codes that they've always had to make golf better/more good/however you want to say it.  

Anecdotally, we as golfers largely have these clothes because we've grown to accept the way things are and have bought them because of that.  My wife hates going to courses with a dress code, to the point where we've not gone, because she's not part of this community.  These types of interactions cannot be measured as you can't measure the lack of something, so I know it's not a solid argument but how many rounds are being lost to people that can golf, would spend money on the round, but don't want to or can't dress up compared to what they're taking in now?  Obviously we can't measure the other way either as they're not relaxing their dress code and I don't know of any places like that which have put out a survey asking if they'd stop coming if they did so to get any meaningful stats.

[Jeremie Boop]

14 minutes ago, limbo said:

Scrap them altogether. Wear what you want. Get the numbers up. Play in a chicken suit for all I care.

What you wear and the general snobbishness of golf is at huge detriment to the game. There are two generations of younger folk being massively deterred from playing by all this old fashioned nonsense (and also by a certain orange-tinged premier ), and the whole game has awful PR as a result. It needs to be FAR more inclusive.

I'm a very keen golfer and it drives me mad that I can be playing a course with such strict rules in and around the clubhouse when they don't even enforce the ones that truly make the game enjoyable. Golf needs to adapt. Rory wears collarless shirts in the Majors.

Relax the dresscode ASAP. The only clause should be to make sure the footwear is suitable. The rest should be as optional as what bag you use or what balls you hit.

 

12 minutes ago, amished said:

@iacas If you went to any super private/exclusive course, and you were allowed to wear anything you wanted from just your underwear to a 3 piece suit and anything in between, if you chose to wear just your underwear would you respect golf less?  Would you respect the course less?  Why?

If we say that wearing certain clothes is "more good" for Golf, then we should do that everywhere.  If it's truly the best thing that we can do for golf on the apparel topic, why wouldn't we want to make every golf course have a dress code?  

Tangentially, why is the PGA relaxing their dress code if it was better for the game of golf?  What level of dress code helps?  Collared shirts?  They don't require that anymore.  No shorts?  It's allowed for practice rounds (I think...).  I can't imagine these decisions are hurting golf, but if it was better for golf why wouldn't they want to keep it the way it was?  

Above all, I believe that a corporation will try to do what is in its best interest to make money.  If they think that they can get more people to watch, or to get out and potentially be the next Tiger, Rory, Brooks, DJ or whomever so that they can make money off of their popularity, why wouldn't they keep the same dress codes that they've always had to make golf better/more good/however you want to say it.  

Anecdotally, we as golfers largely have these clothes because we've grown to accept the way things are and have bought them because of that.  My wife hates going to courses with a dress code, to the point where we've not gone, because she's not part of this community.  These types of interactions cannot be measured as you can't measure the lack of something, so I know it's not a solid argument but how many rounds are being lost to people that can golf, would spend money on the round, but don't want to or can't dress up compared to what they're taking in now?  Obviously we can't measure the other way either as they're not relaxing their dress code and I don't know of any places like that which have put out a survey asking if they'd stop coming if they did so to get any meaningful stats.

If you really think dress code is limiting golf growth I don't know what to tell you. There are very few course that require any sort of strict golf dress anywhere near me. If you have some sort of shirt on, shorts\pants\skirt\etc, and shoes, you can walk on and play. The only hard/fast rule that I've seen is that every person has to have their own clubs if they are playing, and that's just to keep pace of play from getting any slower than it already is. The courses that require specific dress are likely not the courses that those new players are going to be going to by and large. At least here in the US. Just because you can't/won't golf on certain courses because of their dress code doesn't mean you have the right to tell them to not have those rules. It's their course, not yours. If enough people stop going there because of that then they'll either change their rules or they'll have to close.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Jeremie Boop

[David in FL]

1 hour ago, amished said:

@iacas If you went to any super private/exclusive course, and you were allowed to wear anything you wanted from just your underwear to a 3 piece suit and anything in between, if you chose to wear just your underwear would you respect golf less?  Would you respect the course less?  Why?

If we say that wearing certain clothes is "more good" for Golf, then we should do that everywhere.  If it's truly the best thing that we can do for golf on the apparel topic, why wouldn't we want to make every golf course have a dress code?  

Tangentially, why is the PGA relaxing their dress code if it was better for the game of golf?  What level of dress code helps?  Collared shirts?  They don't require that anymore.  No shorts?  It's allowed for practice rounds (I think...).  I can't imagine these decisions are hurting golf, but if it was better for golf why wouldn't they want to keep it the way it was?  

Above all, I believe that a corporation will try to do what is in its best interest to make money.  If they think that they can get more people to watch, or to get out and potentially be the next Tiger, Rory, Brooks, DJ or whomever so that they can make money off of their popularity, why wouldn't they keep the same dress codes that they've always had to make golf better/more good/however you want to say it.  

Anecdotally, we as golfers largely have these clothes because we've grown to accept the way things are and have bought them because of that.  My wife hates going to courses with a dress code, to the point where we've not gone, because she's not part of this community.  These types of interactions cannot be measured as you can't measure the lack of something, so I know it's not a solid argument but how many rounds are being lost to people that can golf, would spend money on the round, but don't want to or can't dress up compared to what they're taking in now?  Obviously we can't measure the other way either as they're not relaxing their dress code and I don't know of any places like that which have put out a survey asking if they'd stop coming if they did so to get any meaningful stats.

I keep hearing you say that a dress code that’s a bit more restrictive than you personally prefer is bad for the game, but why would allowing a less restrictive dress at my course(s) be good?  

I couldn’t care less if those that prefer to golf in jeans and a t-shirt choose to play elsewhere.  Hell, I don’t care if they choose not to play at all.  The relatively few people that the current common standard of dress bothers is insignificant. More so because they generally have options where they can dress in a less restrictive manner (though dress requirements still remain) and even if those options were unavailable, many (most?) would continue to golf even if they had to comply with the more restrictive requirements because they enjoy the game more than they’re bothered by the dress.  That leaves an extremely small minority of people who might ultimately quit the game if they could not find a course where they weren’t as restricted in their dress, but honestly, what’s the harm in that?  Sorry, but in the big picture, it’s no real “loss to golf”, if they leave the game.  Nor is it any loss if a very small minority choose not to try golf in the first place for the same reason.  

That’s not intended to be mean spirited.  It’s simply math, and fact.