what's the ruling?

[jowlar]

In our club championship this past weekend the eventual champion hit his ball near the last out of bounds marker adjacent the fairway. The ball was on the oob side but dead even with the marker depending on your line of sight (depending on where you stood in relation to the marker the ball could be in bounds or out). The other players in our group agreed to let him play the ball but I was wondering what is the proper rule regarding the issue. Should there be a marker or local ruling as to the oobs area perpindicular to the last marker?

Another questions is the player entitled to relief from the marker if his ball is deemed in bounds? Can he remove the marker (if movable) or can he drop?

[jasongst]

In our club championship this past weekend the eventual champion hit his ball near the last out of bounds marker adjacent the fairway. The ball was on the oob side but dead even with the marker depending on your line of sight (depending on where you stood in relation to the marker the ball could be in bounds or out). The other players in our group agreed to let him play the ball but I was wondering what is the proper rule regarding the issue. Should there be a marker or local ruling as to the oobs area perpindicular to the last marker?

I can only assume that if it was the last OOB marker that it (technically speaking) marked the

end of the OOB territory, regardless of whether it was intended by the course manager. It should be played as it lies. In answer to your question, if the object is movable then yes, you can move it. If it is not movable then I don't know the correct ruling off hand. OOB, GUR, and water hazard markers are a source of frustration to me. I want to play the game by the rules, but most courses do not have adequate markings, it seems. The result is too much guesswork.

[Mats++]

In answer to your question, if the object is movable then yes, you can move it. If it is

This is

NOT true, the rulebook states that

Objects defining out of bounds such as walls, fences, stakes and railings are not obstructions and are deemed to be fixed. Stakes identifying out of bounds are not obstructions and are deemed to be fixed.

And a ball is deemed OOB if

A ball is out of bounds when all of it lies out of bounds. A player may stand out of bounds to play a ball lying within bounds.

[underparnv]

Right on. Someone who knows the rules!

I've had to play a shot with an OB marker in my swing path...it isn't fun.

[jasongst]

This is

I should know better than to try to answer rules questions.

[Smallville]

I've had to play a shot with an OB marker in my swing path...it isn't fun.

Was this in competition or a friendly round? Because if there is a chance of damage to my club in a friendly, non-competitive situation, the balls moving somewhere else; no sense in taking an unnecessary risk. This would apply to anything, not just an OB marker. Now if there is money or stature or SOMETHING involved, play it as it lies or take an unplayable.

[underparnv]

Doesn't matter what type of round for me...they all count towards my handicap so I'm playing to the rules.

[powerfade]

I should know better than to try to answer rules questions.

You can move a stake defining a water hazard (maybe that's what you were thinking?).

[powerfade]

In our club championship this past weekend the eventual champion hit his ball near the last out of bounds marker adjacent the fairway. The ball was on the oob side but dead even with the marker depending on your line of sight (depending on where you stood in relation to the marker the ball could be in bounds or out). The other players in our group agreed to let him play the ball but I was wondering what is the proper rule regarding the issue. Should there be a marker or local ruling as to the oobs area perpindicular to the last marker?

You

must find the nearest adjacent stake, fence post, or whatever defines the oob, to determine the oob line. Once found, if the ball is completely on the oob side of the inner most sides of the two stakes, then the ball is oob. If any part of the ball is within any part of the two stakes, then it's in bounds. " When out of bounds is defined by reference to stakes or a fence or as being beyond stakes or a fence, the out of bounds line is determined by the nearest inside points at ground level of the stakes or fence posts (excluding angled supports). When both stakes and lines are used to indicate out of bounds, the stakes identify out of bounds and the lines define out of bounds. When out of bounds is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is out of bounds."

[jowlar]

Maybe this will better explain the situation, its kind of crude but I think you can get the idea. My question more so relates to the perpindicular line which separates in from out relative to the last oob marker. What point of reference is used as a guide?

By the way the oob markers are pvc pipe and he did move the pipe to play his shot.

large circle - green
black lines - oob marker
red dot- ball
pink, blue, red lines - varying angles of sight relative to ball

[powerfade]

This is a very strange oob marking because it ends without truly defining the oob area to either side of the last marker. (Obviously, it's your question)

Are you positive there isn't a marker to either side of the last oob marker (it could be several yards away)?

Does the scorecard give any more info as to the definition of oob (retaining walls, fences, paths, planters, gutters, etc)?

You cannot determine the oob boundry based on your drawing. There has to be another marker to define what should be a corner.

[jowlar]

This is a very strange oob marking because it ends without truly defining the oob area to either side of the last marker. (Obviously, it's your question)

There is no other marker and no local rule about what should be used as a corner. If there is no usga rule then I would like to go to the golf course committee to designate a corner or extend the markers further along the fairway to a point where a corner is not necessary. Any definitive answer on whether or not an oob marker is a movable obstruction?

[PEZGolf]

Right on. Someone who knows the rules!

You are right--sometimes, the Rules of Golf can be frustrating. In the case of stakes that delineate OOB NOT being allowed to be moved, it does make sense. If one player removed the stake, and forgot to replace it OR replaced it in a different spot, and another player in the tournament in a later groups hit a ball into the same area, he could be adversely affected by the actions of the previous player. By stating that stakes cannot be moved, this situation cannot occur.

[powerfade]

There is no other marker and no local rule about what should be used as a corner. If there is no usga rule then I would like to go to the golf course committee to designate a corner or extend the markers further along the fairway to a point where a corner is not necessary.

Yes, I agree, you must go to the comittee so they can address this (or identify the oob for you).

Regarding oob markers being MO's...the answer is a definitive no. Someone posted the rule earlier from the USGA. You can stand oob to make the shot but you cannot move the marker. You can only move markers defining water hazards (and lateral water hazard's).

[sacm3bill]

You can only move markers defining water hazards (and lateral water hazard's).

And yardage markers, and easily removable signs stuck in the ground, etc.

[Fourputt]

There is no other marker and no local rule about what should be used as a corner. If there is no usga rule then I would like to go to the golf course committee to designate a corner or extend the markers further along the fairway to a point where a corner is not necessary.

Boundary markers are fixed. You are not allowed to move them for any reason. And the markers themselves are out of bounds (see definition below).

The boundary MUST have more than one reference point, because you must be able to construct a sight line between the points. If you can't do that then there is no way to determine if the ball is in or out. If you can't determine that then this whole discussion is meaningless. I wouldn't play a course that was so poorly marked more than once. From now on, I'd recommend playing at courses where they actually know how to setup and mark the course properly. This is the definition of Out of Bounds from the Rules of Golf:

Out of Bounds "Out of bounds" is beyond the boundaries of the course or any part of the course so marked by the Committee. When out of bounds is defined by reference to stakes or a fence or as being beyond stakes or a fence, the out of bounds line is determined by the nearest inside points at ground level of the stakes or fence posts (excluding angled supports). When both stakes and lines are used to indicate out of bounds, the stakes identify out of bounds and the lines define out of bounds. When out of bounds is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is out of bounds. The out of bounds line extends vertically upwards and downwards. A ball is out of bounds when all of it lies out of bounds. A player may stand out of bounds to play a ball lying within bounds. Objects defining out of bounds such as walls, fences, stakes and railings, are not obstructions and are deemed to be fixed. Stakes identifying out of bounds are not obstructions and are deemed to be fixed. Note 1: Stakes or lines used to define out of bounds should be white. Note 2: A Committee may make a Local Rule declaring stakes identifying but not defining out of bounds to be movable obstructions.

[Stacey_E]

We have this exact same scenario on my course. And on the 18th hole no less! OB all the way down the left until the markers end at about 125 yards. It would be the simpleist and cheapest thing in the world to add one more stake or a paint line to mark the ending of OB left of the marker. Courses invite rulings problems my failing to clearly cut the lines. Imagine if other sports had "sorta in bounds line"....."that ball was kinda foul" or "he made it near the end zone".

[Fourputt]

We have this exact same scenario on my course. And on the 18th hole no less! OB all the way down the left until the markers end at about 125 yards. It would be the simpleist and cheapest thing in the world to add one more stake or a paint line to mark the ending of OB left of the marker. Courses invite rulings problems my failing to clearly cut the lines. Imagine if other sports had "sorta in bounds line"....."that ball was kinda foul" or "he made it near the end zone".

On a properly marked course the end of a limited out of bounds area is marked by a double stake at the end of the line of markers. Anything beyond the ends of a row of markers defined by double stakes is in bounds.