What's the ruling?

[TigerCurtis333]

So I'm playing nine holes with a good friend of mine, of whom we've never played together before. It's at Raintree (remember, the place where I said I'd never go back?), but this friend works with the proshop guy so we play for free.

It's the last day of summer for us, and it - is - PERFECT. Light wind, blue sky, maybe 71 or 72 degrees, it was perfect. Just a great day for golf, no one infront of us or behind us.

Anyway on the 6th hole, I hit a great drive and played into my slice, with the ball landing just in the rough about 178 from the hole. I hit hybrid, and it goes well but bounces off of a small hill and out of sight. We both knew the ball would be around the green, and in the rough. Some how some way, we can't find it. We searched the green, infront and behind it, and in the OB. Nothing at all. And with it being such a nice day and we weren't playing "against" eachother, no bragging rights here, we just said forget it and we moved on.

So I back up as far as I can while still staying in-bounds, and we both agree my ball is somewhere closer to the green, and this should do to save some time. We agree that we just can't find it, are done looking for it, and that I wasn't giving myself an advantage. Long story short, for my third shot I flop it 3 feet from the hole and make the putt.

I won by 9 strokes, but was just wondering - now it's a just a casual day, not a tournament - is the ruling a stroke penalty because we were so lazy?

[RemyM]

The ruling is you didn't follow the rules, it was a lost ball and you should have gone back to the last spot and played under stroke and distance. You didn't so under the rules if you were playing stroke play you're disqualified. It wasn't a tournament, you buddy didn't make you, so life goes on. So what's the real question then? What score to post? Should you take his money?

[Fourputt]

So I'm playing nine holes with a good friend of mine, of whom we've never played together before. It's at Raintree (remember, the place where I said I'd never go back?), but this friend works with the proshop guy so we play for free.

If you were playing in a competition you would have been disqualified for a serious breach of Rule 20-7c. A lost ball is a stroke and distance penalty, so by just dropping where you did you played from a wrong place (2 stroke penalty for a small breach), and because you gained a significant advantage by your error, that made it a serious breach.

If we're being technical, you could say that you were both disqualified. By agreeing to waive a Rule, you both incur the general penalty of disqualification under Rule 1-3. So when it comes right down to it, you both lost...

[tjy355]

First you said you weren't playing against each other, no bragging rights, but then you said you won by nine strokes !

Frankly, during a casual round, I'm not going to go back given the situation you describe. However, keep in mind the lost ball penalty is stroke AND distance, which essentially amounts to two strokes to put you back to where you are dropping. So the answer is you should add two strokes instead of one to keep it marginally fair.

[TigerCurtis333]

First you said you weren't playing against each other, no bragging rights, but then you said you won by nine strokes !

Nice catch. We kept score just to see where we were (as individuals) but we really could have cared less who won. We still played by golf etiqutte rules, of course, but at this point looking for a ball for too long was a lost cause. It was just too nice out.

and because you gained a significant advantage by your error, that made it a serious breach.

You're adding information. I hit off of a hill next to a shed by the OB boundaries behind the green with a tree in my line. My ball bounced near a group of hills at the FRONT of the green, and we simply didn't want to spend more than 5 minutes looking for it since it wasn't too much of a serious match. Where the hell that thing ended up is beyond us - but we knew the general area, and checked all the bunkers. We were also sure I was hitting farther away from the pin than where my first ball ended up.

But you guys took this WAY too seriously. Talking about competition rules... Please - tell me you thought I posted online what the stroke penalty would be if I didn't hit where my ball lay in a competition. Seriously - read the post people. tjy - thanks. He works there but neither of us were sure what the ruling would be and were both curious, but we figured it'd be at least a stroke.

[Fourputt]

Nice catch. We kept score just to see where we were (as individuals) but we really could have cared less who won. We still played by golf etiqutte rules, of course, but at this point looking for a ball for too long was a lost cause. It was just too nice out.

Where it ended up doesn't matter, you hit that shot that got lost from over 170 yards away. You dropped near the green. That is gaining a significant advantage in anyone's book. By the Rules, that is a serious breach.

I know that it wasn't a competition round, but you asked a rules question and I gave a rules answer. The rules always assume that it's a competition, especially in the case of a disqualification penalty. Obviously you can't really be DQ'ed in a casual round. You and your buddy have to sort that one out.

[firstcut]

I would like to answer this in the same way I answered a similar post:

The rules are the rules and you were wrong. Bummer.

That said:

I think anyone that plays socially and follows those rules is bordering on insanity. That rule (among others) are socially tiered rules that give the advantage to rich players and pros. If I can't find a ball and I *know* it didn't go OB, I'll drop and hit. Why waste 5 minutes looking and then walk back 240 yards because we don't have caddys, fans or spotters? It's waste of time and backs up the average course. If everyone played like that the average round would be 6 hours.

In short, IMO, the OP did the socially responsible thing even though it was technically illegal.

Save the "book rules" for guys that have caddys, spotters and 6-7 hours to play a round. IMHO, that's what the rule book is meant for (i.e. true competition). To hold the average duffer to an insane rule book designed for rich guys and pros takes away the spirit and fun of the game.

Enjoy the game folks!

[Fourputt]

I would like to answer this in the same way I answered a similar post:

The Rules are only for rich golfers????? You have to be kidding. That's one of the silliest statements I've ever read here.

I'm a retired machinist... just about as far from rich as it gets, but I play every round by the book, and I have done so for 20 years. Saying that it would result in 7 hour rounds is pure horsefeathers. This sort of scenario happens maybe once in several rounds. That means that it MIGHT add a couple of minutes to a particular round, but certainly not to every round (and it isn't that hard to make those few minutes back up again). Far more often a ball is lost because you hit it where there is a good chance for it to be lost, and in such a case, a responsible player plays a provisional ball. That only takes a few extra seconds. IMO, the main reason that so many golfers use this excuse is because they are too embarrassed to go back and play another ball under the eyes of the group behind them. I had to do it last Sunday in my club championship... I hit that shot where it couldn't possibly be lost.... but it was. After searching, I went back to the tee and hit another one. Not fun, but it was the only option. It's the only time I can think of in more than 2 months where it happened to me or to anyone I was playing with, and I play at least 3 times a week.

[firstcut]

The Rules are only for rich golfers????? You have to be kidding. That's one of the silliest statements I've ever read here.

Actually, I said "That rule among others", not rules in general. You can call it silly, but the fact of the matter is that Pros and people with money have caddys and spotters to track balls down for them. We do not. For the average golfer on a public public course it's a stupid rule and enforcing it on yourself to the detriment of the players waiting behind you is selfish. Rules or not, it's bad etiquette to slow the course down for your own benefit. Although I do agree that you did the right thing if it was a tournament.

I could care less about what the people behind me think about my play. I could (and do) however care about holding people up. And you are clearly out of touch if you think that the average golfer only loses a playable yet well hidden ball once in several rounds. The "average" golfer is lucky to break 100. You think they do that by keeping balls in the fairway and not losing them? Please. If every golfer on the course played by the rulebook, took their 5 minutes to look for a ball AND then went back to hit from their starting position *every time* a ball vanished, then yes, the average round would go up to 7 hours easy. With a group on 18 holes, if each group only did that once (@ 5 minutes), it would add 90+ minutes extra round! So yes, I stand by my statements. IMHO Etiquette and "keeping the pace" is more important than following the letter of the rule. And I suspect that most course management, marshals and the groups stuck behind an average player who was sticking to the rule books would agree with me.

[par3forme]

When I play with my friends, we don't always play by all the "official" rules. We allow each other to fudge once in a while but all stick to the same standards that we have all agreed on. But in fourputt's defense, you did ask what the "rules" were, and he answered you. That being said, I personally feel that in the circumstances you described, what you did was perfectly reasonable.

[SiamGolfer]

If you were playing against the guy or for money, then you would have to go back to where you played the shot from. This is a normal rule that isn't exclusive to rich people/pros etc. and does not contribute to 7 hour rounds ...
However playing casually against friends (not playing by the rules of golf) then the 'equitable' action 'might' have been to take 2 strokes (stroke&distance;) for the drop, not 1

Playing provisionals, when there is some doubt, eliminates these situations.

[RemyM]

The rules are not only for guys with caddies and spotters. I'm playing in an event about 75% of the time I'm playing so the rules always matter. We have events that pay out in pro shop credits every weekend in my men's club on a municipal course with no caddies and no spotters. If I'm signed up and I lose a ball I didn't expect to lose then you can be sure that I'm going back to play another one unless I know for sure that I have no chance in that event because I was already playing poorly. In that case I would take my most likely score for handicap purposes and DQ myself from the event. Just about everyone in the men's club has been in that situation before so no one playing behind you will have a problem with it. The way to do it is while you're going back your playing partners play out their shots so that you don't fall too far behind, and then you play faster on the next hole to catch up if needed.

[iacas]

We just had another thread about whether you "play by the book" or not all the time, so now that the original question's been answered, I'm closing this thread. Look for the other if you wish to continue the debate over whether to follow the rules or not.