Playing the ball down,...

[Zeph]

It's a new term for me too, it's never been a question about whether you play it where it lies or not. In the winter you can play some courses by carrying around a fake grass mat to put your ball on, but that's only to protect the course.

[Fat Slice]

There is a rule for that.... Rule 28 - Ball Unplayable. You don't get a free ride just because you lie in a club damaging situation. I've actually left my ball on a cart path and played from there when I was entitled to free relief because the proper drop point would have left me a worse lie (deep native or bushes) than the cart path.

I think you missed my earlier post...

* If the ball is somewhere with no relief, and my club will hit a rock, I will take an unplayable (and the penalty) and move it.

and the penalty

[Fourputt]

I think you missed my earlier post...

I was out of the country for 2 weeks... there were too many pages to this thread to read every post word by word. I just skimmed and posted on what I noticed. Had you posted that originally I'd never have had anything to comment on.

[Lefty731PM]

Sadly, it only seems to be in the US that the Rules of Golf are considered optional by the majority of players. Most players here are strictly casual, don't belong to any organized clubs, and only play small wager competitions within their own weekly fourball. They have their own highly imaginative ideas of what the procedures are for various relief situations, and most of them don't even realize that they are wrong. They actually think that Good Buddy Joe knows all when it comes to the rules and they never question, just take the ball and perpetuate the inaccuracies as he teaches them.

Nicely put.

I once played with a fellow who accidentally knocked his ball when he addresed it with his putter. Predictably, he said he had a 6 when it was a 7 (or whatever). When I "checked" with him, he said that it was OK as long as the ball didn't travel a full revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zeph]

That's wrong for sure. Show him the rule book.

18/2 Ball Oscillates During Address Q. In addressing the ball, a player accidentally causes the ball to oscillate, but it returns to its original position. Has the ball “moved”? A. No.

The definition says the following:

Move or Moved A ball is deemed to have "moved" if it leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place.

If you accidentally bump the ball during adress and it rocks forward then back again, not changing it's position, you do not get a penalty.

If the ball moves from its original position, not falling back to where it was, you get one penalty shot. That goes anywhere on the playing field, you've also got some exceptions of course.

[microcrayfish]

I agree with the observations of my fellow Australasians this "playing the ball down" as you call it (I'd never heard the term before) just isn't really an issue in this part of the world it seems. Nobody I've ever played with has ever kicked or moved their ball to a better lie. Isn't the whole point of the golf course to reward good shots with nice lies and bad shots with poor ones? If you hit it under a tree then it's entirely your own fault and you should deal with the consequences.

[Lefty731PM]

That's wrong for sure. Show him the rule book.

I didn't need to. When I pointed out that a revolution was a bit over 5 inches he shut up.

[Lefty731PM]

If you hit it under a tree then it's entirely your own fault and you should deal with the consequences.

True - and if you happen to have a bad lie in the middle of the fairway, end up in a divot or have a skinny lie when you have to lob it over a bunker it's equally part of the game.

[Lefty731PM]

I agree with the observations of my fellow Australasians this "playing the ball down" as you call it (I'd never heard the term before) just isn't really an issue in this part of the world it seems. .

I suppose we are lucky to play on good courses in good condition all year round. When our course is wet, we might have a local rule for "preferred lies", but a lot of players in North America have a golf season which means that at the edge of this season the courses might be in poor condition. Sadly, it seems that a lot of their golfers afford themselves the same advantage all the time. But as I've mentioned, these types do not play competition golf as we do. On another forum, a fellow was talking about a tournament here where representative firemen and police came from America to play here and almost had to be physically restrained when asked to observe rules like taking stroke and distance for Out of Bounds. Talk about a different culture!

[Fourputt]

I suppose we are lucky to play on good courses in good condition all year round. When our course is wet, we might have a local rule for "preferred lies", but a lot of players in North America have a golf season which means that at the edge of this season the courses might be in poor condition. Sadly, it seems that a lot of their golfers afford themselves the same advantage all the time. But as I've mentioned, these types do not play competition golf as we do. On another forum, a fellow was talking about a tournament here where representative firemen and police came from America to play here and almost had to be physically restrained when asked to observe rules like taking stroke and distance for Out of Bounds. Talk about a different culture!

It still isn't so much culture as it is playing level. Aericans do tend to be fairly casual in many parts of the country, and that casual attitude is extended to any game they play in a recreational atmosphere. Most of the golfers who play in a club or league on a weekly basis attempt to play by the rules as they recognize them. The problem is less one of intent than it is of recognition. They just assume that whoever taught them a certain procedure was correct in his interpretation, and the issue has never come up in a way that the fallacy was questioned. It's more a case of ignorance than culture.

I'm not defending ignorance either, just trying to set the false impression right. Americans are no different in this than anyone else. I don't see a soccer player calling a penalty on himself anymore than I do an American football player. But an American golfer will do so as readily as a European, Australian, or any other, in a competition . The only real difference is that a higher percentage of American golfers never play competitive golf. They have no real impetus to bother with learning the Rules properly. Those who do play in club competitions or higher are just as knowledgeable about the rules as players anywhere else in the world, and in my experience, that isn't saying much. No matter where you go in the world, the average club golfer will be lost in many procedural situations. All you have to do is read golf forums to see that the problem is not restricted to any one region. The percentages may change, but confusion about the rules is fairly universal.

[Zeph]

Everyone should be playing by the rules, not just those participating in competitions. In football you get a free kick if the oponent use his hands, no matter how serious you play. The rules, par, hcp etc. is the fundamentals of golf and what makes it so much fun. Just going around hitting balls, bumping the ball into a good lie doesn't sound like fun at all.

My experience is only from Norway where I have played, but here I have never met anyone who didn't play by the rules. On some rounds just for fun some people probably don't follow all the rules 100%, but usually, everyone does.

[PEZGolf]

I'm playing today with some friends at a very nice course,.... (it's good to have friends who work at a nice country club) My one friend and I have been playing the ball down lately after years of bumping it,... we're trying to get a feel for how the game is to be played,... my other buddies hate the thought of that. They play pretty good golf too, often shooting in the 70's (me, not so much)

If you play for money, even small stakes, make the bet contingent on playing the ball as it lies. Explain that is true golf, and that is why you want to do it. If they reject that notion, I do not know what else you can do. All of my friends play it down since we play in many tournaments and want to be ready for them.

[EquipmentJunkie]

In football you get a free kick if the oponent use his hands, no matter how serious you play.

...and that may be proof that there is a cultural difference, because I'm sure many of us (Americans), on the first read through said "Huh, you can use your hands in football?"

[zeg]

I'm somewhat amused to learn the term "play it down." I'm an American, and a lousy golfer. I'd never heard it before, or really noticed it until this afternoon, the first round after learning the term. I was playing as a single and got grouped up with a player who would roll nearly every ball a few feet before addressing it. Didn't seem to matter whether it was on fairway or not, it was just the way she seemed to play every shot. Kick, set, swing... kick, set, swing... Bizarre.

[Fat Slice]

...and that may be proof that there is a cultural difference, because I'm sure many of us (Americans), on the first read through said "Huh, you can use your hands in football?"

...unless you play for the Oakland Raiders.

[EquipmentJunkie]

...unless you play for the Oakland Raiders.

So long as Al Davis is in charge that team will always be a sinking ship.

[heyscuba]

I'm somewhat amused to learn the term "play it down." I'm an American, and a lousy golfer. I'd never heard it before, or really noticed it until this afternoon, the first round after learning the term. I was playing as a single and got grouped up with a player who would roll nearly every ball a few feet before addressing it. Didn't seem to matter whether it was on fairway or not, it was just the way she seemed to play every shot. Kick, set, swing... kick, set, swing... Bizarre.

I'm just curious how you got into the game,... How'd you learn and all that.

It seems to me that's how the difference comes in how we learned to play it, or not play it correctly. My friends and I did not grow up at country clubs,... we didn't play it as a team sport in school, we learned to hit balls at a driving range and then putt balls at a putt-putt course (as we called it) then one day when we started driving cars (a long time a go) we saw a public golf course, so I borrowed my uncle's clubs and we went and hit the course, not knowing anything about the rules other than try to count how many times you hit the darn thing before it goes into the hole, we realized it was much easier to hit if it was sitting up on some nice grass rather than laying down on some hard pan dirt or if it was buried in the deep grass so we always bumped it, fluffed it or what ever you call it,... it wasn't till a few years went by that we started learning some rules. But playing it down was a long way off,... first we started learning how to play OB and the red and yellow stakes, lost ball was and still is very difficult to paly correctly on public courses,... because sometimes you don't know it's lost till you get up there and going back to the tee on a grounded course doesn't always sit well with those behind you and hitting a provisional on every shot you don't see sitting up after your tee shot is also time consuming. Thats where my delima is,.... my friends don't want to move away from the comfort of bumping the ball all the time and I do,... I do play lost ball correctly now, but it never fails, I'll bomb one into the real high grass and I know it's lost so i play one from the tee and oen of my buddies will hit one off the fairway and we get up there and can't find it and they drop and take the distance and I get screwed,... scuba

[Ben]

In practice play I've begun to play the ball down even on the tee, unless I'm using the driver of course. Just more in building my confidence when in the fairways. Especially good for par 5 play, being that I've already hit a few 3 woods or hybrids from the deck, I'm not so intimidated to try and get home in two with a good rip of a swing.