20+ handicappers hitting 300 yards (mild rant)

[TN94z]

On 8/16/2017 at 8:45 PM, iacas said:

 People over-state how far they hit the ball all the time.

One of the guys on the local high school team (Sophomore) said that he didn't like the Taylormade M2 irons because he hit them too far. He stated "I already hit my 7 iron 220. The M2s just made it worse."

Edited September 6, 2017 by TN94z

[klineka]

45 minutes ago, Xunzi said:

My handicap is 25. I regularly hit 300 yards with my driver. Last weekend I played a tournament and another guy decided to measure one of my drives using gps and it came out at 317 yards. Do I have a lousy swing? No. In fact, I've been told my swing is too good for my handicap on multiple occasions.

So how is it possible? It's really easy - I hit half of my drives into the woods/out of bounds. That's something like 14 shots lost per round with penalty. My approach game is ok but definitely needs improvement, I regularly flunk my wedges. A 300 yard drive + wedge + wedge is no better than a 150 yard drive + 150 yard drive + wedge.

Right now, I'm spending a lot of time on the range trying to get consistency in my drives and minimize the number of slices and hooks (it's all over the place). Once I get that sorted, I expect my handicap to drop.

To say that you cant have good enough a swing to hit 300 yards and be a 20+ handicapper is clearly false. Power and accuracy are two different things - look at the long driving competitions - most of the shots miss the fairway - so clearly they have good enough a swing to hit 400 yards without being accurate. Add some trees and those drives aren't worth much. 

Im willing to bet that most of those drives that slice or hook so much that they go out of bounds do not go 300 yards. You said you hit half of your drives out of bounds, so assuming 13-14 drives per round, that means at least 6 or 7 are going OB and less than 300 yards. 

You are correct that the long drive competitors can reach 400+ but their slices and hooks do not go anywhere close to that. 

So sure your straight solid drives might go 300, if that is only half of your total number drives, then I wouldnt consider you to be someone who regularly hits 300 yards. And that is assuming very best case that every single drive you hit in play goes 300 yards (also unlikely). Lets say only half of the drives you hit in play go 300 yards, now that means that only 25% of the total drives you hit reach 300 yards. Much different than "regularly hitting 300 yards"

Plus, 300 yard drive + wedge  will always leave you in a better chance to get closer to the hole than a 150 yard drive will. Give yourself 1000 swings from the fairway after a 150 yard drive and 1000 swings from the fairway after a 300 yard drive on the same hole, I guarantee you will have a closer average proximity to the hole from the fairway after your 300 yard drive.

[Xunzi]

10 minutes ago, klineka said:

Im willing to bet that most of those drives that slice or hook so much that they go out of bounds do not go 300 yards. You said you hit half of your drives out of bounds, so assuming 13-14 drives per round, that means at least 6 or 7 are going OB and less than 300 yards. 

You are correct that the long drive competitors can reach 400+ but their slices and hooks do not go anywhere close to that. 

So sure your straight solid drives might go 300, if that is only half of your total number drives, then I wouldnt consider you to be someone who regularly hits 300 yards. And that is assuming very best case that every single drive you hit in play goes 300 yards (also unlikely). Lets say only half of the drives you hit in play go 300 yards, now that means that only 25% of the total drives you hit reach 300 yards. Much different than "regularly hitting 300 yards"

Plus, 300 yard drive + wedge  will always leave you in a better chance to get closer to the hole than a 150 yard drive will. Give yourself 1000 swings from the fairway after a 150 yard drive and 1000 swings from the fairway after a 300 yard drive on the same hole, I guarantee you will have a closer average proximity to the hole from the fairway after your 300 yard drive.

Agreed, slices and hooks don't go 300 yards. So on average, my drives are not 300 yards. Nor does every single drive in play go 300 yards, obviously. I hit some shorter, some longer. I have no idea if my average hits 300 or not, I've not made a statistical study and it's not really that important to me.

But I regularly (not on average) hit in the vicinity of 300 yards, meaning just that.

As for the wedge example - of course a 300 yard drive is better than a 150 yard drive all else equal - I was just illustrating that if you have shaky approach game like me, hitting long might not result in a low handicap.

[scotth]

You know, I might have actually played with a guy that would fit this category on Monday.  If the ball was teed up he hit it a mile.  However he could not hit anything off the deck.  It was a series of fat shots and tops off the fairway all day.  

He was 40 - 50 yards past me off the tee shots, but by the time he got to the green and putted out he was 2 - 3 stokes higher than me per hole.

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by scotth

[Lihu]

On 8/9/2017 at 6:30 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

Reminds me of a tip for amateurs I read years ago. If you're playing well, go play! If you're having problems, go practice!

Yeah, practice. . .

 

On 8/12/2017 at 4:31 PM, downbylaw11 said:

a lot of people exaggerate their ability, so im surprised that the so called 20 handicap doesnt claim to be scratch. usually when anyone tells me they hit it 300, i roll my eyes, unless of course they are a very good golfer who played regularly.  but ive had guys who play pitch and putts, and maybe one full course a year tell me they hit it 300 yards, which is such unbelievable bullshit.  I mean, maybe, just maybe they have the ability in them to hit a 300 yard drive, but if 9 out of 10 times you top your ball 75 yards, i don't consider you a 300 yard driver, and were probably lying to begin with.  but yeah, if you were a legit 300 yard driver, it boggles my mind how you could be a 20 handicap if you owned a putter, but maybe I just fail to relate to people who have no desire to acquire any type of feel around the greens and squander their natural ability to hit the long ball. 

I tend to agree with this now, but you have to remember that most 20 handicaps don't really know how far 300 yards is on the course. Many "long driving high handicaps" think 250 yards is 300 yards. People don't generally measure the distances. If the person is hitting 6i onto 420 yard par 4s with great regularity, they're not hitting anywhere close to 300 yards off the tee. However, there are people who can hit far and score terrible without sand bagging.

 

On 8/16/2017 at 6:01 AM, MattD said:

Nah 300 yards is not hard if you know how to hit , my best so far is 320 metres which is 350 yards once converted , but some guys who grew up playing cricket or baseball will  find it easy and others will find it hard if they don't understand how to get swing speed up. I do say this;

heaps of guys hit further than me and those that don't believe it and bag guys who can hit 300 yards are just jealous .

Even though 350 yards is only your best so far, I still doubt that "heaps" of players hit past you.

 

2 hours ago, Xunzi said:

I'm one of these people. I used to play a lot when young, had a 15 year break and picked up golf again three years ago. 

My handicap is 25. I regularly hit 300 yards with my driver. Last weekend I played a tournament and another guy decided to measure one of my drives using gps and it came out at 317 yards. Do I have a lousy swing? No. In fact, I've been told my swing is too good for my handicap on multiple occasions.

So how is it possible? It's really easy - I hit half of my drives into the woods/out of bounds. That's something like 14 shots lost per round with penalty. My approach game is ok but definitely needs improvement, I regularly flunk my wedges. A 300 yard drive + wedge + wedge is no better than a 150 yard drive + 150 yard drive + wedge. It adds up. Putting is alright.

I know I could easily lower my handicap by using my rescue as a driver and play safe. However, for me that would be boring as hell. My goal is not to minimize handicap - my goal is to maximize my potential. Right now, I'm spending a lot of time on the range trying to get consistency in my drives and minimize the number of slices and hooks (it's all over the place). Once I get that sorted, I expect my handicap to drop.

To say that you cant have good enough a swing to hit 300 yards and be a 20+ handicapper is clearly false. Power and accuracy are two different things - look at the long driving competitions - most of the shots miss the fairway - so clearly they have good enough a swing to hit 400 yards without being accurate. Add some trees and those drives aren't worth much. 

My son played someone like you when he was a freshman in HS varsity golf who hit really far but barely shot a 55 playing 9 holes in a tournament and that's with a double par cap on all holes. My son said he likely shot closer to 63.

I believe that there are people who can hit far and have a high handicap, but then again there's good reason to doubt it unless you see it.

 

50 minutes ago, scotth said:

You know, I might have actually played with a guy that would fit this category on Monday.  If the ball was teed up he hit it a mile.  However he could not hit anything off the deck.  It was a series of fat shots and tops off the fairway all day.  

He was 40 - 50 yards past me off the tee shots, but by the time he got to the green and putted out he was 2 - 3 stokes higher than me per hole.

 

Just goes to show that there's far more to golf than tee shots.

[PaddyMac]

16 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I tend to agree with this now, but you have to remember that most 20 handicaps don't really know how far 300 yards is on the course. Many "long driving high handicaps" think 250 yards is 300 yards. People don't generally measure the distances.

I play a guy who swore his drives were long until we both got GameGolf ...

Edited September 6, 2017 by PaddyMac

[Lihu]

Just now, PaddyMac said:

I play a guy who swore his drives were long until we both got GameGolf ...

Yes, that happens as well.

However, so does the opposite. I looked at some of the GG driving distance statistics and, wow, 400 yard drives! I'm guessing some people just forgot to tag their approach shots

[Kalnoky]

The best is when a group of these "big hitters" plays from the back tees. Does wonders for the pace of play.

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, Kalnoky said:

The best is when a group of these "big hitters" plays from the back tees. Does wonders for the pace of play.

I'm pretty sure @David in FL could rant about this all day in this thread or any other thread! . . .

[David in FL]

3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I'm pretty sure @David in FL could rant about this all day in this thread or any other thread! . . .

Not so much of a rant...

...more of a public service announcement.  

[mcanadiens]

Some of the guys I know can hit an odd shot a really long way. 

Take my brother and his buddy. I play with them maybe two to three times a year and neither one of them play often enough to be any better than a 20 (which is what I am). Those are two big guys and they swing out of their shoes. They'll slice their shots further than I hit my better ones. 

It doesn't happen real often, but when they center one 300 yards is very possible. That probably happens once every two rounds or so.

[klineka]

Just now, mcanadiens said:

Some of the guys I know can hit an odd shot a really long way. 

Take my brother and his buddy. I play with them maybe two to three times a year and neither one of them play often enough to be any better than a 20 (which is what I am). Those are two big guys and they swing out of their shoes. They'll slice their shots further than I hit my better ones. 

It doesn't happen real often, but when they center one 300 yards is very possible. That probably happens once every two rounds or so.

Theres a huge difference between one drive out of 30 going 300 yards, and consistently being able to hit 300 yards relatively in line with your target and in play

[BaconNEggs]

At the driving range I go to, the back net is about 240 from the tees I usually hit from. The range generally faces into the wind, but I find the effects negligible on most days.

 

The balls are a hodge podge of used golf balls. You might get a reduced distance range ball, a newish ProV, or you might get a Top Flite 2000 that's been hit hundreds of times, sat out in all sorts of weather, etc. Always funky when you hit a drive OK and it goes 140 yards in the air doing a corkscrew.

 

So no doubt the conditions aren't ideal, but I very rarely ever see anyone hitting the back net in the air. That's just carry, of course, but if the range were a fairway that allowed for run, I doubt more than a handful of people would push 300 on any given day.

 

I don't doubt that one could be a 20+ handicap and hit the ball 300 yards. And of course it's possible that some even average 300 yards. But I'd also bet that the vast majority of people who claim they do the latter are lying.

 

It's not just a matter of strength and swinging hard, as some have suggested. The golf swing is kind of peculiar like that. Just because you can hit a baseball 400 feet in no way suggests that swing speed will translate directly to golf. Plenty of big boys who can only manage 200 yard slices. It's just hard to believe that you could have a coordinated enough swing to hit the ball 300 yards and still be that bad at golf. My understanding is that most WLD competitors are actually very good golfers. Just looked up a few that I could name off the top of my hand, and they're plus or low single digit handicaps.

 

So yeah... possible, but probable that most are lying.

[mcanadiens]

18 minutes ago, klineka said:

Theres a huge difference between one drive out of 30 going 300 yards, and consistently being able to hit 300 yards relatively in line with your target and in play

No question.

[Lihu]

14 minutes ago, BaconNEggs said:

It's not just a matter of strength and swinging hard, as some have suggested. The golf swing is kind of peculiar like that. Just because you can hit a baseball 400 feet in no way suggests that swing speed will translate directly to golf. Plenty of big boys who can only manage 200 yard slices. It's just hard to believe that you could have a coordinated enough swing to hit the ball 300 yards and still be that bad at golf. My understanding is that most WLD competitors are actually very good golfers. Just looked up a few that I could name off the top of my hand, and they're plus or low single digit handicaps.

 

So yeah... possible, but probable that most are lying.

This is the main reason for this thread. The OP was ranting about this, and he's mostly (99.99%) right to rant. It's pretty rare.

[Mr. Desmond]

Who knows about exaggerations. I see a lot of guys on the range - you know who has "it" and who does not... some may think 300 but it's not, and who cares?

About 10 yrs ago, I used to hit it 290 a couple of times during a round when I belonged to a club. Knew it was 290 because I drove the green on one of the short par 4s and close on another. Had health issues afterwards and could not hit it out of my shadow and several here could attest to that ... could barely hit driver 200 yds.

Took lessons consistently since March, and the nerve of the instructor, he had a Trackman - man, that will blow an older guy's ego. At first, I was carrying 208 ... five months later, it is a 235 carry on my better swings. But when I get outside and not in a bay, I hit it further. For some reason, I can't hit the ball off an indoor monitor or from a bay to the outside grass. But when I'm outside, it's easier... Weird game... swingspeed goes up as does smash factor ... like I said, I'm weird ... err, no, golf is weird.

I keep searching for more distance.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Mr. Desmond

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Who knows about exaggerations. I see a lot of guys on the range - you know who has "it" and who does not...

About 10 yrs ago, I used to hit it 290 a couple of times during a round. Had health issues afterwards and could not hit it out of my shadow and several here could attest to that ... could barely hit driver 200 yds.

Good that you recovered. . .

 

4 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Took lessons consistently since March, and the nerve of the instructor, he had a Trackman - man, that will blow an older guy's ego. At first, I was carrying 208 ... five months later, it is a 235 carry on my better swings. But when I get outside and not in a bay, I hit it further. For some reason, I can't hit the ball off an indoor monitor or from a bay to the outside grass. But when I'm outside, it's easier... Weird game... swingspeed goes up as does smash factor ... like I said, I'm weird ... err, no, golf is weird.

Golf swing claustrophobia? Just focus on the swing, and relax. I think the key is to relax.

[Mr. Desmond]

1 minute ago, Lihu said:

 

 

Golf swing claustrophobia? Just focus on the swing, and relax. I think the key is to relax.

I think too much during a lesson or when inside. When I shut off the mind, results are better.

Outside, I relax and think less.

Just finding feels now.