Golf Snobbery

[julie_m]

Hmmmm. So is McDonald's a snob for saying "No shirt, no shoes, no service"?

Here in Texas, that rule is flexible.

*Shudder!*

[bradpet]

Hmmm, too much disagreement over such a simple concept as a dress standard.

If I vote for bear skins & loin cloths, will someone support me??

[zeg]

Hmmmm. So is McDonald's a snob for saying "No shirt, no shoes, no service"?

The shoes, clearly not -- shoes, in addition to being clothing, are protective devices. Requiring shoes provides legal protection should a patron step on broken glass or slip and fall. The shirt part may be a form of snobbery, but more below...

Are employers snobs for having dress codes?

Well, I'd say it depends. They'll have to have a certain degree of dress code to meet the prevailing local standards of decency to avoid sexual harassment claims. That I would not say is snobbery. More than that, well, it's snobbery in some form. It might be justified -- an investment bank that brings clients on site had probably better insist on a tighter dress code to meet the expectations of their customers. Similarly, a fine restaurant's staff should probably dress as is expected. In both of these cases, and many others, an external expectation makes the dress directly relevant to the job.

Are movie theaters snobby for requesting that patrons not talk during the movie?

Absolutely not. That's etiquette, not dress code, and it directly interferes with other patrons ability to experience the movie.

When you spend mucho bucks to take your girlfriend to a fancy restaurant so you can propose to her, do you want the couple sitting next to you wearing cut-offs and tees?

Honestly, it probably wouldn't bother me. However, I understand that some people are bothered by that sort of thing. I'd say that in itself is snobbish -- that's the very appeal of a fancy restaurant. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it's dishonest to pretend it's otherwise.

The fact is that society must mandate some minimal level of conduct or some numskull will always try to lower the standard to unacceptable levels.

On the subject of

conduct , I have no quarrel.

Different activities require different attire. That standard attire for golf is, generally speaking, a collared shirt and non-denim pants. Is that really such a burden? Why can't golf be an activity where you don minimally nicer clothes than you would put on to, for example, plunge you toilet? How is that "snobbery"?

I think the question is why should golf of all sports require that a competitor dress up even for a casual round? I am someone who dresses neatly, but wearing jeans and a T-shirt 99% of the time (when it's not warm enough for shorts). How is that in any way unacceptable? What is it about golf that requires we dress like old white guys?

And, really, what is it about denim that makes it unacceptable for golf? Even more than snobbishness, that strikes me as silliness -- it's the snobbery from 50 years ago when denim was "working people clothes" that has not yet adjusted to the fact that jeans are stylish in the modern era. (In case it's not obvious, the no-denim thing really bugs me far more than any of this, simply due to its arbitrariness.) Anyway, I guess I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with some degree of snobbery as long as there's alternatives for those of us who are more concerned with substance. I won't deny that private clubs have the right to enforce their own dress codes, I will gladly avoid those clubs. I don't think it's appropriate for public venues, however, and I'd prefer that even the private ones opt not to. If a player has poor etiquette, toss them off the course for that. Not for how they look. I'd much rather share a course with a polite guy in sandals and denim shorts than a jerk in a polo shirt. Oh, and bradpet -- I'm with you on that one. Do you know a good source for tartan loincloths online?

[EquipmentJunkie]

The First Tee really is a special resource!!!!

This would bother me, and I wouldn't consider it snobbery, I would consider it a safety issue. Pedophiles would be my concern here, of course I think because of where I work I am more observant of those things.

[bradpet]

....

When I find a tartan bear, I'll let you know.

[Fourputt]

Hmmm, too much disagreement over such a simple concept as a dress standard.

As long as we can drop the bearskin in the heat of summer. I couldn't deal with all that fur.

[bradpet]

As long as we can drop the bearskin in the heat of summer. I couldn't deal with all that fur.

Oh no, we have the first exception to the new general rule -> loin cloths are permissible in summer rather than a full bearskin.

[julie_m]

I am someone who dresses neatly, but wearing jeans and a T-shirt 99% of the time (when it's not warm enough for shorts). How is that in any way unacceptable? What is it about golf that requires we dress like old white guys?

The prob with dress codes is, if you give someone an inch, they take a mile. You neat T-shirt and jeans is someone else's "Will Work for Beer" shirt with the cut-off sleeves and their jeans with that hole worn through ever so close to the line of where the sun shall never shine.

I remember in high school, we had a rule with skirts and shorts - you hung your arms loose, and if you couldn't touch the hem(s) with your fingertips, it was too short. This did not bode well for someone like me who has long limbs with near ape-like proportions...I dangle my arms and they fall only about 3" above the knee. That does not constitute short-shorts or a mini-skirt. Nonetheless...the solution? Quityerb*tchin and find something longer. So it goes. PS: That being said, I feel this is a good rule for your loincloth plan. PPS: I'll be saying my prayers tonight I get proposed to by a guy wearing a shirt.

[Fourputt]

The prob with dress codes is, if you give someone an inch, they take a mile. You neat T-shirt and jeans is someone else's "Will Work for Beer" shirt with the cut-off sleeves and their jeans with that hole worn through ever so close to the line of where the sun shall never shine.

That goes anyway. I've seen a guy at my home course who would have been considered "properly" dressed under your rules, yet what he wore was worse than outrageous. He had a striped shirt and plaid Bermuda shorts, all in colors that gave you a headache just to look at him. The outfit looked like it had been designed by a blind chimpanzee then wadded up in the bottom of a duffel bag for 3 years. Yet there was no denim, the shirt had a collar, the shorts were not cargo shorts. Ive also seen those oversized basketball shorts on the course, worn falling half off the buttocks, I think that they are wrong just because they make the person look slovenly. There's nothing that says a person can't be casual and still be neat.

IMO, a course can require that a player be neat and clean without resorting to specifying materials.

[Harry Longshanks]

But how is it "snobby" to designate a particular mode of dress?

If, as you say, jeans are just as nice as khakis, then it isn't an issue of class, status, or cost, correct?

So what about it makes it "snobby"?

And the argument that not talking in a movie theater is etiquette while apparel has nothing to do with etiquette is incorrect. When there is an accepted mode of conduct for an occasion, not adhering to it shows a lack of respect and etiquette. Just because you don't like the mode of conduct doesn't change that fact.

Why do you wear a suit and tie to a friend's wedding? Because that is the appropriate etiquette for the occasion. There is nothing inherent about a wedding that requires a swath of cloth tied around a man's neck, or a dress on a woman instead of shorts. It's just the proper attire for the occasion. That is, it would be disrespectful to wear jeans and a t-shirt to a wedding. Why do you inherently accept that premise and not the one that golf requires collars and no denim?

Golf is no different from the rest of life. It has developed an accepted attire that shows respect for the game and for the players. Golf has always been more formal than other sports. And based on those accepted norms, clubs have drawn a bright line setting a minimum standard of dress. What is wrong with that? If that line had been set closer to your personal beliefs on what should be worn (denim for example), there would always be people with different beliefs claiming that requiring denim instead of something less formal (for example swimsuits and flip-flops) is snobby. Would you agree with them? If so, at what point does it not become snobby? Nudity? Aren't people who demand that clothing be worn in public just snotty and overly uptight about the human body?

So again I ask, what is so difficult about wearing the accepted attire? (That is, other than the fact that you simply don't want to?) And what makes it "snobby", as opposed to simply an easy to designate minimum level of dress?

[bradpet]

...

.... and a low-slung capri loin cloth for

ClairefromClare ??

[Harry Longshanks]

IMO, a course can require that a player be neat and clean without resorting to specifying materials.

Really?

I challenge you to write that rule so that no one here can find a way to wear something tasteless? Trust me, it's just not possible. And anything you come up with can certainly be challenged as "snobby." Like julie_m said, give people an inch, they will take a mile. And your example of the man with ugly clothes proves that. (By the way, by judging his attire even though it conformed to policy, doesn't that make you a snob just because you disagree with his tastes?) P.S. I hope no one is taking my comments personally. I'm just trying to make my point, just as everyone else is. I certainly haven't taken anything anyone else has said as personal. Like I said early on in this thread, dress code isn't the most important thing to me. I just think that it still deserves consideration as part of the etiquette of the game.

[bradpet]

Really?

No problems here

Harry Longshanks . I agree with what you've said. Even if I didn't .... "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (Voltaire).

[Harry Longshanks]

No problems here

Okay, good. And for the record, I would happily wear bearskin. (as long as it has a collar and is faux bearskin from J. Lindeberg.)

[firstcut]

Most of what the OP said is fairly accurate IMHO. Golf has MORE than it's share of snobs. It's one of the few things I dislike about the game. I've got some theories that mostly involve jocks past their prime and dorks that couldn't play contact sports....

That said, I get paired up with good people more often than not, so I'm not going anywhere.

On the jeans note...

I find it amusing how "no jeans" courses are happy to take your money if you show up in jeans on a 45 degree day in January. I used to play with friends that were always dressed perfect. On cold winter days I would show up in jeans and a callaway sweatshirt. They were always worried the Marshal was going to come around and kick me off.... Bahaha!

[Sir Shanksalot]

You can only wear Bermudas at Baltusrol in July and August.

At the May 14th member guest many were wearing bermuda shorts. Maybe that's part of the point, give someone an inch and they'll take a mile (even at the hallowed halls of Baltusrol). Maybe the official rules are July and August but they opened the door. There's is always someone looking to push the envelope of what is appropriate, which is why I think dress codes are a good idea.

[Scott_Tee]

Best revenge is beating them at thier own game, Golf ! My best friends father was the Head Pro at a private Club near Chicago until he got fired. Those private clubs csn get very political..'live and let live' I say. Cheers !

[ClairefromClare]

Mmmm ... low-slung capri pants ... Stop teasing us poor male golfers or I'll tell Rory about your belt.

Two words for you, Pet: Frat Party.

If I got a chance to play Baltusrol, I wouldn't wear shorts, no matter how hot it was.

Only if we get to see pics of you in them.

Hmmm, too much disagreement over such a simple concept as a dress standard.

I will!

The solution to the whole dress code issue is simple: Let me be the Great Decider. And if you think this gets contentious, you should see tennis players on the subject. How white is white? (Shirt color!)