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ryohazuki222

Demo Experience today... Shaft Opinions? Taylormade Tour Preferred Irons

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I've bolded the important stuff if you want to skip over and just read that.

Background info:

I have always been a tennis player. I picked up golf back in August and love it. Been playing a lot, driving range a lot, chipping and putting a good amount too. I finally got my score under 90 from the middle tees, so I recently moved to the back tees. Now I'm scoring 90s even when I play bad (or when it just doesn't feel like things are working for me.) I still haven't taken any real lessons, but I have been fortunate enough to have played paired up with a professional caddy and a teaching pro. Both of whom game me some good advice and were very impressed with my short game (especially considering how long I've been playing -- guess the practice is paying off.) I plan on taking a few lessons in the upcoming months as now I feel I have a grasp on the game and can actually make use and understand advice given to me by a pro.

I currently hit a complete box set of slazenger clubs I bought myself for my 21st birthday in August so I can get out and play. All with graphite shafts.

Now that my ball striking has gotten better and I have a huge golfsmith giftcard of money to spend (or sell if you check the classifieds) I'm planning on buying new clubs. I'm an adidas guy and that translates to Taylormade. Despite how many people think it's stupid to be brand loyal... it definitely gives me a plus on my mentality. I just feel like I can hit better using this brand. That's not something I want to debate in this thread.

I went to demo clubs for the first time today. At first the Tour Preferred wasn't available. So the guy just handed me some random stuff to try: Bridgestone J36 Project X 6.0, some older forged Titlest DG s300, mizuno mp 60 s300, and a callaway x-forged r300. Theyre listed in the order I preferred em. Strongly preferring the bridgestone. I liked the titleist too... and didn't really like the other two much at all.

Then they happened to find the Tour Preferred dg s300 and an r7 TP project x 6.0. I hit the tour preferred very well. the r7 tp felt good too, but liked the tour preferred more (doesn't matter much since the r7 is old and I cant get them customized like I like anyway.)

Here are my questions and concerns:

---After hitting all these demos without too much problem... I couldn't hit my own club worth a darn. Overall I hit the same distance or farther with all the clubs I demoed compared to my slazenger. It's uncanny considering my 6 iron was about an inch longer than the others and I'm pretty sure lofted a club up (my 3h is 18* and 4h is 21* with a 5-pw).

---Somehow I hit the ball very high with my clubs (they have flexible graphite shafts that say "powered by Harrison".) I thought by hitting something like a project x 6.0 it'd keep them down more... but I still hit it pretty high. Is this normal?

---With my own club I sometimes hit a pretty bad fade. I often hit at least a little fade. With the demos I was hitting them very straight. Even on mishits they didn't fade nearly as bad as with my own club. I thought these types of clubs had more workability... which meant that it would magnify my fades and the like?


The shaft question.

I really liked the Bridgestone J36 Project X 6.0 (swung only at about 80%...) The r7 tp with Project X 6.0 was not as good. HOWEVER, at the end of my session I speed up my tempo from about my normal 80% up to the best I can do under control... about 95%. When I did this the r7 TP's were amazing... seemed like they went forever, but I couldnt see well since it was dusk. The issue though, is for some reason with the r7 I would not align properly with the flag. (Possibly because the demo was a r7 head screwed into a shaft and the grip on it was not centered... kinda through me off) I still hit it straight, but could not get it towards the flag. I hit the Tour Preferred DG s300 very well at my usual 80%. Straight and aligned. When I cranked it up to 95% it was awesome.... but I felt I was hitting further with the Project X 6.0 in the r7's. I hit both clubs very straight. I aligned the Tour Preferred easily... could not with the r7.

I've decided I will buy a set of Tour Preferreds. However, I want them customized to fit me. The problem is, since I liked Project X 6.0 on the Bridgestones. And loved it when I swung away on the r7s. I'm not sure what to put on the Tour Preferreds. In all honesty, I feel that something in between DG s300 and Project X 6.0s would be perfect. I'm leaning slightly closer to the 6.0's as opposed to the s300s. However... golfsmith says taylormade hasn't sent them any other shafts for demos in the tour preferreds. Since I'm customizing them... I'm kinda screwed if I end up picking wrong.


Shaft Options for my Tour Preferreds:

Dynamic Gold $0 charge
Dynamic Gold SL $0
Precision Tour Flighted Rifle $0
Nippon NS Pro 950 $0
Project X $20 ($15 if they pricematch TGW's custom shaft price)

In addition to the DG and the Project X, I'm very interested in the Tour Flighteds. I'm also curious about info Nippon... just because I don't think I've heard anything about that one at all.

Further, aesthetically I don't like the DG's. But I am openminded enough to realize that I don't care if they outperform the rest.

Stats: Athletic 6'4" 21 year old. Not sure about swing speed but got a reading of 98/99ish on golfsmiths launch monitor which malfunctioned after a couple hits. Those were measured more at my controled 80% swing I usually hit at this time. (Though to clarify... I would prefer to be consistent with my current 95% swing.)

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The 80/95 percent thing I'm not quite understanding. If it is 80% of swinging all out, which is what I'm assuming, I would think you would want irons that perform the best with that controlled tempo. I had Project X Tour Rifle Flighted 5.5s (swing speed averaging around 101 with 37.75" 6 iron) and ended up switching to Nippon Pro 950s in an "R". The Rifles measured out much stiffer than a 5.5 should have been (i.e. stiffer than a 6.0 should have been), for whatever reason, and I found the switch to the Nippons really improved the feel of my irons, and restored the distance I had lost with the much stiffer Project X, and I can work them right to left. That was just my experience, and didn't have the opportunity to hit another 5.5 shaft to see if it was just a quality control thing, but I can say the Nippons are great. I really don't know enough about the swing speed variables, etc., but threw in that information from the measuring we did while trying different shaft options in case that information is helpful. I ordered the 5.5s assuming they would be right, did all the testing when they turned out to be frustrating. Sounds like you aren't making that mistake. Had True Temper S300s before and like these Nippons better, even though designated an "R". No substitute for a lot of trial to prevent error. Hope this is somewhat helpful.

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TM TP irons are great, they might not be my first choice, but they deffinitly are up there. As for shaft, once I tired a mid launch project X, I fell in love. Incredable, that's all there is to it.

If you haven't lost all faith in mizzy, try there MP 52/57. The 52 are there most forgiving MP series iron, and are very workable, and the 57 are slightly less forgiving yet a little more workable.

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TM TP irons are great, they might not be my first choice, but they deffinitly are up there. As for shaft, once I tired a mid launch project X, I fell in love. Incredable, that's all there is to it.

I don't get that, no offense but at a 30 you can't hit those irons consistently, unless you are the best 30 ever. OP i think at a 20 you might be a little over your head, but maybe not, and even if you are, then the clubs will grow with your ballstriking, maybe your swinging too steep yielding the high ball flight. I love the S300 on the Tour preferred, they go lower and straight than the PX for me.

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The 80/95 percent thing I'm not quite understanding.

Seems like you understand right. On my scale 100% is maximum power while still maintaining control... but get too close and it's easy to lose control. 95% is about the best I can get with repeatable results. If I'm on fire it's beautiful... but for the average day... 80% gives me the best distance/control/tempo ratio.

The thing is... in the grand scheme of things I just started playing and I'm pretty young. I expect to grow in all facets of the game... thus why I'd want something stiffer than I can handle, but also something that is playable now. I don't want to outgrow these clubs/shafts in a year or two. And I did find your post helpful. The positive reviews you gave the Nippon tells me not to rule it out of the picture... to make sure I give it a shot.
OP i think at a 20 you might be a little over your head, but maybe not, and even if you are, then the clubs will grow with your ballstriking, maybe your swinging too steep yielding the high ball flight. I love the S300 on the Tour preferred, they go lower and straight than the PX for me.

I agree that I'm probably over my head... but that's the idea to me. I want to be enough over my head to leave room for growth... but not too much over that it's futile. I appreciate the tip about the swing path.... it reinstates to me going to get a proper lesson is the right step to take before buying anything.

The bottom line is with demoing however... I hit the Tour Preferreds much straighter, more consistent, and even further that my current set-up. So worst case scenario it is definitely a step up from what I'm using.

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Seems like you understand right. On my scale 100% is maximum power while still maintaining control... but get too close and it's easy to lose control. 95% is about the best I can get with repeatable results. If I'm on fire it's beautiful... but for the average day... 80% gives me the best distance/control/tempo ratio.

Well if you hit them better get them, I recommend ebay as its a bit cheaper than stores, I've bought most of my clubs from ebay and their all fine. I think you should get the tour preferred, because they are still somewhat forgiving, and your ballstriking will improve, so it will definitely benefit your game. Good luck

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I know where you are coming from, been there. I understand what you are thinking and you should definitely do what you think is best, or it will nag at you if you don't. However, I learned the hard way to get a shaft that was right for my game at the time I was working on improving (and still am for that matter). Starting out too stiff makes it harder to load, makes you need to swing faster and/or steeper, all sorts of things others on here would know a lot more about than me. Given that you can always switch out shafts for the price of a really good hybrid or fairway wood these days, you might find it easier to develop good habits and see positive results. You've probably already done this, but taking a lesson from someone you have confidence in and a fitting for shafts will help validate whatever decision you make. Again, do what is best for you, I just know that all stiff shafts are not created equal, and too stiff, initially, could interfere with your swing and enjoyment of the game.

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I know where you are coming from, been there. I understand what you are thinking and you should definitely do what you think is best, or it will nag at you if you don't. However, I learned the hard way to get a shaft that was right for my game at the time I was working on improving (and still am for that matter). Starting out too stiff makes it harder to load, makes you need to swing faster and/or steeper, all sorts of things others on here would know a lot more about than me.

Are you saying that down the line if I want different shafts in my irons, I can upgrade for the price of the new shafts? If so, it just goes to show how much more there is to learn for me... haha. And also that would make my decision a lot easier.

Let me know if I understood this right. I've found your post extreeemely helpful if so.

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To answer your question about your clubs not going as far and not hitting them as well. It sounds like "new club syndrome" to me, since they are your "old" clubs you aren't as excited about hitting them as the "new" ones. Just my .02

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Thanks for the input. I can understand the new club syndrome with distances because those are harder for me to tell..... BUT without any doubt I hit all the demos -- even the ones I was 'expecting' to dislike -- with a MUCH more consistent, straight trajectory.

I just wasn't fading the ball like I usually do (and did when using my club.) Even when I did happen to fade, it was miniscule in comparison to the usual curving right trajectory my clubs tend to have.

So, to me that part is still a mystery. But thanks for the reminder to try and keep an objective mind.

I'm going back to demo again tomorrow if the weather is not too windy (today it was ridiculous.) And this time it'll be different. It's easy for the new clubs to be exciting when they are brand new and I don't know what to expect. But now that I'm going back and expecting them to be awesome.....? Well, in my experience I'm almost always let down when I have high expectations like that. And if I'm not let down that I know that's what's good for me.

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Thanks for the head's up about this disease. It's good to keep things in perspective!

To me, it still doesn't explain the much straighter trajectory I got using the demo's though. I can see the disease impairing my distance judging, but not my left to right judging. And even if so... not by as much a difference as I saw.

I decided to go back tomorrow if it's not too windy. I was really impressed the first time around not knowing what to expect. Now I'm going with high expectations of these clubs. Which has the opposite effect in my opinion. Most things fail to live up to the hype. If these don't.... well then I have more searching to do.

Also can demo these clubs fresh. Had hit about 170 balls before demoing the taylormades and my hands were sore (stupid unforgiving mizunos and my inability to hit them!) so we'll see if that changes things.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post... my internet led me to believe the last post didn't go through so I rewrote and reposted.

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Are you saying that down the line if I want different shafts in my irons, I can upgrade for the price of the new shafts? If so, it just goes to show how much more there is to learn for me... haha. And also that would make my decision a lot easier.

Just saying that if you later move from an R to an S, or a "more flexible" S to a "stiffer" S (or different kickpoint, etc. whatever the evolution of your swing brings if it requires a change) you can have the irons reshafted for the price of the new shafts (and grips, I always forget the grips) and installation, which could be $300 or so, maybe a bit more if premium shafts.

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To answer your question about your clubs not going as far and not hitting them as well. It sounds like "new club syndrome" to me, since they are your "old" clubs you aren't as excited about hitting them as the "new" ones. Just my .02

I experienced something related to this. When my new irons came, I played them to death exclusively, excited about the new clubs, etc. But noticed distances not there like should have been, couldn't draw them, swinging way too hard, and other things that made me question my shafts, even though was hitting them straight in spite of myself. In denial for awhile, but eventually and late in the summer, dug out a couple of the old ones, put in bag, hit on range and course, and instantly realized my precious new shafts were way too stiff (the old ones, even though "stiff" just had more "snap" and required less effort, especially on partial swings). Was doing things not conducive to good golf swinging to make the new clubs perform, just took awhile to realize I was working too hard at it and an adjustment was necessary, so went for shaft fitting and all is well, after learning hard way to be extra sure the new shafts are the right ones before ordering on the new irons.

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Thanks a bunch flanagan for all the info.

But that does lead me just to a certain question that's been bugging me.

Let's say I hit a 6 iron project x 6.0 with high trajectory, straight, and about 170 yards. What exactly do I get from dropping down to a 5.5? More distance? More consistency?

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If that's the distance you are looking for and you hit the other clubs as consistent, I wouldn't drop to a 5.5. My pro hits 6.0s and has the same length and lie specs as me, so I demo'd his clubs several times and his conclusion was that his were too stiff, so we went with the 5.5s. I'm sure if the 5.5s had actually spec'd out like 5.5s were supposed to, everything would have been fine, but turns out they didn't. I was left with sending everything back to Titleist and not getting my clubs back to use the last several weeks of our season, or going to a clubfitter, not too far away, for some testing, and getting the clubs back in less than a week (still would have had to pay Titleist to switch out the shafts, because I'm sure we would have assumed the 5.5s were just the wrong flex and requested 5.0s, not knowing of the "stated vs. actual flex" of the ones I got, so who knows where that would have left things). The fitter could have got me 5.5s and would have made sure they spec'd out flexwise, but the analysis done with my swing characteristics, suggested the Nippons as a better alternative. The Nippons in regular tested out a little better than the old shafts I had in my PINGs, and both tested way better than the Rifle Tour Flighted 5.5s that were in my new irons and wedges. Again, it's so personal and that's just my experience. Not knocking the 5.5s, mine were just not what 5.5s were supposed to be (just apparently got an off or misidentified batch somehow). I just relate the story because I would have never thought to order "regular" shafts in any shaft, and these regulars are right for me. Personal comparisons are so difficult, but I hit my old PING 6 iron 170 - 175 and was happy with that. With the new irons, I was seeing 165 - 170 and having to swing harder, and not having the feel of solid contact with 1/2 swings on short irons. With the changed out shafts, I'm back to my distances and with a little nicer ball flight and much more consistent (i.e., to the target) ball flight. So, a happy ending. The only reason I'm tossing out all this information is so if some of it is helpful you might use it, but I don't feel comfortable suggesting how a 5.5 might perform for you vs. the 6.0. One thing you might try is to hit some punch shots, or some 1/2 swing short irons and see how the ball performs for you with some different shafts or flexes, in addition to the full swings and see what the pro thinks, also. Sorry for the rambling.

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