Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

[mstuk]

"Anyone who discounts Tiger's record by saying he has to win all majors in one year to be considered the most dominant player in history is not recognizing reality."


Nobody is discounting Tigers record perhaps you should read the post again . As to the courses played many of the courses played are the same as today winged foot , st andrews to name but two.

besides which surely to be considered the best player in history one must eclipse the accomplishments of all the other great players now in the case of Jack Nicklaus that means winning 19 majors but win as many as you like if one other player has won all majors in the same year the argument will rage on . Besides which the winning % of Bobby Jones in majors would take some beating as well ,not withstanding the fact that he played against Walter Hagen and Gene Sarazen both of whom are considered amoungst the greatest ever to have played the game. Neither ever won a major Jones played in . Now Tiger is no doubt one of the greatest players of time and may well end up being the greatest of all time but not yet my friend not yet...

[SubPar]

besides which surely to be considered the best player in history one must eclipse the accomplishments of all the other great players now in the case of Jack Nicklaus that means winning 19 majors but win as many as you like if one other player has won all majors in the same year the argument will rage on . Besides which the winning % of Bobby Jones in majors would take some beating as well ,not withstanding the fact that he played against Walter Hagen and Gene Sarazen both of whom are considered amoungst the greatest ever to have played the game. Neither ever won a major Jones played in . Now Tiger is no doubt one of the greatest players of time and may well end up being the greatest of all time but not yet my friend not yet...

Well we will never be able to do a 1:1 comparison, because the line up of what were called the “four majors” in Jones' day was quite different. Two of his four “majors” in his grand slam were amateur tournaments. Tiger is the only player to hold all four modern major titles at once.. that’s four majors against the best professionals on the toughest courses. Jones’ amateur record is remarkable, but Tiger the won three straight Juniors and three consecutive US Amateurs as well. Some records will probably stand forever, like Nelson's 11 consecutive wins (under unique conditions). Tiger might win eleven straight, but he’d have to play every minor event week after week, which he will never do. So the equipment is different, the courses are different, the tournament line up is different. I respect the old guys and their accomplishments in their day, but bring them all back from the grave in their prime and let Tiger play them today at Augusta... he'd clean their clocks. This is like football fans going on about the players from the past and how great they were relative to modern players. They were great in their day. I remember when "Bullet" Bob Hayes was the fastest man alive, and a great player in his time. But there are 275 lb linemen today who can run 60yds as fast as Bob did in his day. Modern football players would break a lot of those guys in half. It's the natural progression in sports. Bigger, smarter, stonger, faster... not just a little... a lot. K

[Hogan Fan]

Man, I really liked your post, all but the clean their clocks part.
I think Hogan, Nicklaus and Palmer would give Tiger all he wanted. Maybe Tiger would fold under the pressure from the gaze of the "Hawk". (thats Ben Hogan to all you rookies)
I just hope when we all get to that great golf course in the sky God says, I'm sick of the debate, we're heading out to the Pearly Links Club for the championship of all times!

[mstuk]

clean their clocks my behind , bobby jones shot a 67 around winged foot using hickory shafted clubs and gutter percher balls. The open courses these guys won on have hardly changed and are far more demanding than St Andrews and Hoylake were Tiger has won his opens. In fact I will have a wager with you that Woods does not win the Open this year because its being played at Carnoustie which is a whole different ball game. I feel it would be far easier for players of Vardon (whose grip woods uses) , Hagen and Jones to compete today because equipment advances have made the game easier than for everyone.

[mstuk]

Furthermore in Jones day the amateur players were still the match of the pro players

[popey]

Not sure if i want to see the ultimate golf tournament hosted by the golf god just yet. Although i would love to see it eventually. Maybe i shoudl open a new thread. Who would win if the golf god had a tournament and all golfer that won at least 5 majors were all invited. Played at all 4 majors, St andrews, Augusta, not sure where it should be for the other 2.

[mstuk]

got to be Pebble Beach for one and perhaps in the interest of balance another UK venue my suggestion would be either Turnberry. Imagine that Woods , Nicklaus , hogan , hagen , jones , vardon , faldo , player , norman , watson and palmer knocking it around on those four courses

[SubPar]

Man, I really liked your post, all but the clean their clocks part.

When I get to that "course in the sky", God owes me at least one round of 66. I've paid in advance.

I will stoke the fire and submit that "The Hawk" would see one 350 yard drive followed by a 220 yard six iron to 12 feet, from a sand trap and he would fold like a wet envelope. But like I said, conditions are so different it is impossible to say what would happen in such a match-up. How would the old birds adjust to greens that run 12 on the meter when the greens were 6 or 7 in their day? The modern fairways are faster than some of the greens the played. SubPar

[Fred99x]

Both were the best in their time. Tiger is technically better and plays against player from all over the world and still wins. Also, Jack's weak spot was his short game and everyone has seen Tigers short game so overall I think that Tiger is better but will he stand the test of time?

[Hogan Fan]

I just discovered a statistic that is really scary. Jack finished in 2nd place a total of 19 times in major championships.

[popey]

Yep i no!!!

Just think he could of won over 30 majors. But Tiger has the ability to close the deal. Not often you see him finish in 2nd place.

The debate goes on!!!!

[CAS]

I would have to say Tiger because I've never seen Jack play.

[s.jarvis]

Based on what the technology was then and what it is now, what Jack did will never be replicated. Although this was way before my time, we must understand that without the Jack's of history, the Tiger's of today would not exist. Tiger could not pure a 1 iron, no one could, but Jack hit the pin in '72,my hands are throbbing with the sheer thought of pulling a 1 iron out of my bag.

I think Tiger is an incredible athlete, however, he is not the quintessential player, when he misses, he is gone both his ball and in the field. Be this as it may, I will pull for Furyk, Phil, Sergio, my Cdn boy Weir (if he gets it together) and many others before Tiger. I love to see someone take him down each and every time, and the less of a name they are the better. This is part of what makes watching the tournaments worth every minute (i.e. last weekends playoff, 2nd win for Howell tough lesson for Phil [again]).

My girlfriend (whom has golfed only once... with me) was getting into it last weekend. It is these David-and-Goliathlike struggles that the PGA is so desperately seeking and the FedEx cup is an example of an attempt to initiate further battles. I think the PGA is looking at other sports to lead them and some ideas are interesting, we are about to witness some major changes, and I for one am very excited.

[Bullard]

In my opinion, Tiger is head and shoulders above Jack.

[RX Phoenix]

I just discovered a statistic that is really scary. Jack finished in 2nd place a total of 19 times in major championships.

I'm sure I watched a most of those championships and Jack let a lot of them slip away, he could be overtaken, he could stumble, he was mortal, but Tiger, when is the last time he lost when leading going into the final round?

He has yet to let anything slip though his hands, maybe it will happen later in his career. It is also true to some extent that Jack had stronger competition if you look at Gary Player, Lee Trevino, Tom Watson just to mention a few, these guys were unbelievably tough competitors. I'm still sure that Watson and Trevino could have taken Tiger head on and beat him on the right course, they couldn't be intimidated. Could Jack have intimidated Tiger . . . it's possible, he was awesome, Tiger doesn't have that type of player now to deal with . . . can a bear scare a tiger, don't know.

[MGP]

I voted for Tiger but I grew up watching Jack in his prime.

I became a serious golfer in the late 70's (I was in high school), about the time Tom Watson showed up and he and Jack had some of their famed duels. FWIW, Tom Watson is probably my favorite golfer of all time -- I live in the Kansas City area and have seen him play several times and even met him once. He is every bit as nice in person as he seems on TV.

That said, I think Tiger is a couple notches better than almost anyone else on Tour right now and there are some incredible players out there. When Jack played there were at least 3 or 4 guys that could at least challenge him every week and in the Majors. Tiger gears up for the Majors and only plays the select dozen or so other events he wants. That usually means he shows up rested and prepared and unless something crazy happens, he's very hard to beat.

Different times, different tour now and really hard to compare the two.

[leapbean]

Gotta go Tiger. Jack was definitely dominant in his own right, but, as in other sports, Tiger is playing against what I percieve to be stiffer competition (on the whole).

[Juzmi]

I like Jack Nicklaus but I voted for Tiger as he has literally changed the way the game is played.