Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

[GrandStranded]

Thanks for the reply, @boogielicious, and the insight on how you go about your business. It's appreciated.

Edited March 30, 2018 by GrandStranded

[turtleback]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

No, he didn’t.

The name calling, you don’t even know if he was given a penalty. He was. By me.

@saevel25, great post.

The quality/quantity one.

Yup, I got scolded - properly so.  I went over the line and for that I apologize, @GrandStranded.

 

[lastings]

So...  I tried to stop paying attention to this thread, but eventually getting an email every single day for weeks on end draws you back in.  

Theres been lots of discussion on stats and comparison to golfers of their time and what not. But, has anyone tried to figure how they would fair head to head in their prime?  I mean, I can guarantee that Tiger would be able to handle the equipment of jacks day, and jack could take full advantage of the forgiveness and distance of tigers equipment. 

So.  Has anyone looked into the specifics?  

1) putting: Tiger was a better putter.  I think this is the only given.  Tiger, on more occasions that on, led the tour in strokes gained putting.  Jack was an average putter, at best.

2) driving: most interesting.  Jack averaged about 260. But, when necessary showed he had 330 in his bag.  In tigers day, what ever you had, you hit.  Nobody lays off the driver these days.  This is derivative of ball and club.  Nonetheless jack was the biggest hitter of his day, with a couple arguments.  Tiger was the biggest hitter, with a couple arguments.  Who was bigger? 

3) approach: they were both the best. However, because of driving distance Tiger hit shorter irons into greens.  I compare this at Augusta, because it’s the only place I’ve seen them both play.  It’s personal experience and can easily be argued. 

So..  I’d like to see someone make the argument that one would beat the other in 18 matcha holes.  Clubs don’t matter.  They’re the best ball strikers ever.  They could shoot par with a rake. 

Can someone make an argument that Tiger was better that Jack off the tee?

can someone make an argument either was a better iron player? 

Can someone make an argument that one was a better putter? Does putting make a better golfer? 

 

 

 

 

^

this is really the argument of the people on the jack side.  They think that, all things being equal, ‘63-‘70 jack would not lose to ‘97-‘03 Tiger. 

No one cares how they fared against golfers of their day.  How would they fare against eachother? 

[iacas]

Tiger mops the floor with Jack. Jack never beat his competition like Tiger beat his.

[lastings]

Who was a better ball striker, Tiger or Jack?

[saevel25]

13 minutes ago, lastings said:

Who was a better ball striker, Tiger or Jack?

Tiger

Driving: Jack at a slight edge
Approach: Tiger with a huge edge
Short Game: Tiger with a big edge
Putting: Tiger with a slight edge

[Vinsk]

14 minutes ago, lastings said:

Who was a better ball striker, Tiger or Jack?

Tiger. By far. These pros...sitting in the middle of the fairway are all capable of tremendous ball striking. But Tiger made shots from unruly lies, angles, rough that Jack himself has said, ‘wow...nobody can hit that shot...including me at any time in my life.’

[lastings]

31 minutes ago, iacas said:

Tiger mops the floor with Jack. Jack never beat his competition like Tiger beat his.

Really not the question at all.  That is the basis of every arugument in this thread.   

Seriouly, who’s a better ball striker? 

[lastings]

27 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Tiger

Driving: Jack at a slight edge
Approach: Tiger with a huge edge
Short Game: Tiger with a big edge
Putting: Tiger with a slight edge

Alright guys... I quoted this post , but is a response to the last 3.   You guys are great golf minds. Usually better than I am. I know from prior posts of yours. But,..  

putting: Tiger with a slight edge?

Tiger led the tour twice in strokes gains putting.  A legit elite putter.  The same number of times Brad faxon led.  Jack was at best a marginal putter, maybe a bad putter.

anyone that has read all my posts in this thread knows I’m heaviy on the Tiger side. But, it’s not like the other side doesn’t exist.

 

 

Every great mind here knows the best ball striker is the best golfer, in the long run.  (Sorry to push your buttons in that other thread @iacas).  

We have all seen jack hit a 1 iron right?  There is an argument.   I think Tiger is the greatest, but not by the margin that some others in this threat think. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by lastings

[saevel25]

10 minutes ago, lastings said:

We have all seen jack hit a 1 iron right?  There is an argument.   I think Tiger is the greatest, but not by the margin that some others in this threat think.

That is pretty much the only shot ever thrown out there for Jack. 

I raise it this shot ;) 

 

[paperclip]

34 minutes ago, lastings said:

Really not the question at all.  That is the basis of every arugument in this thread.   

Seriouly, who’s a better ball striker? 

Tiger.  Easily.

 

[Vinsk]

12 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

That is pretty much the only shot ever thrown out there for Jack. 

I raise it this shot ;) 

 

Ummmmm...yeah. Buh bye Jack.

[turtleback]

1 hour ago, lastings said:

Really not the question at all.  That is the basis of every arugument in this thread.   

Seriouly, who’s a better ball striker? 

During the '97 Masters broadcast, which some of us have rewatched since it recently became available, one of the announcers said that Jack had told him that the ANGC that Tiger was in the process of tearing up, was much harder than the course he and Ray Floyd had set the scoring record (which Tiger was about to surpass).

It is also important to realize that the '97 Masters was played with essentially the same, old school, technology that Nicklaus & Floyd used in '65 and '76, respectively.  Sure there were refinements over that time period, but nothing like the changes titanium heads and graphite shafts were about to make.

So boil that all together and we have Tiger and Jack, Jack at one of the high points of his career, Tiger at a strong point for his game.  No excuses for either of them.  Tiger beat Jack's score, albeit by only 1, on a course that Jack said was much harder.  And he did it with his ball striking.  No one had ever HAD second shots from places Tiger could launch it to.  Hitting 8 iron into a par 5 green when in 1976 Ray Floyd had surprised the golf world by dominating the pars 5s with the relatively rare, at the time 5 wood.  

I think this suggests that at the top of their respective games, it was Tiger.

[mvmac]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

Tiger

Driving: Jack at a slight edge
Approach: Tiger with a huge edge
Short Game: Tiger with a big edge
Putting: Tiger with a slight edge

Yep I agree with this. I think Jack was flat out a better driver, everything else Tiger was better, especially around the greens. 

1 hour ago, lastings said:

putting: Tiger with a slight edge?

Tiger led the tour twice in strokes gains putting.  A legit elite putter.  The same number of times Brad faxon led.  Jack was at best a marginal putter, maybe a bad putter.

Tiger isn't/wasn't as good as he is perceived to be and I think Jack was a little bit better than average.

1 hour ago, lastings said:

We have all seen jack hit a 1 iron right?  There is an argument.   I think Tiger is the greatest, but not by the margin that some others in this threat think. 

Tiger's 2-iron was probably the same loft as Jack's 1-iron 

Jack was an awesome ball striker, he owned his shot zone, hit it high and far....but Tiger is/was just better.

 

[GrandStranded]

4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

That is pretty much the only shot ever thrown out there for Jack. 

I raise it this shot ;) 

 

I'm not going to get into the who's better argument here, but I think everyone would agree both were great ball strikers. Given that, it's almost unfair to "cherry pick" one, or even a few particular shots made by either one over the course of their careers. Especially Tigers. Why? If someone wanted to, they might be able to find video of a large percentage of shots Tiger has ever hit on tour. This isn't the case with Jack. We were all fortunate to see Tiger hit many incredible shots, (I remember one at the Canadian Open that was jaw dropping) this is due to both his greatness (the cameras were always on him) and how the coverage of tournaments evolved. Again, not taking anything away from Tiger, but if that same type of coverage was available in Jack's day, I'm sure we'd have just as many memories of his incredible moments.

'

[onthehunt526]

3 hours ago, mvmac said:

Yep I agree with this. I think Jack was flat out a better driver, everything else Tiger was better, especially around the greens. 

Tiger isn't/wasn't as good as he is perceived to be and I think Jack was a little bit better than average.

Tiger's 2-iron was probably the same loft as Jack's 1-iron 

Jack was an awesome ball striker, he owned his shot zone, hit it high and far....but Tiger is/was just better.

 

Tiger plays very archaic lofts... So actually I don't think so. (Maybe now with having the UDI they are the same). But back when Tiger played a blade 2-iron in his prime, I want to say it was 21°. Not even joking there.

Jack played a fade that he could control off the tee, so I give the driving edge to Jack.

Tiger is a better than average putter if you take his entire career into account, but not great. Jack was about on the same level as Tiger there.

Actually in Jack and Tiger's prime years they were both probably the best ball strikers of their era.

I still think Tiger is the GOAT. But a year between the two in their primes... Would be something out of Back To The Future. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by onthehunt526
I wrote something wrong

[iacas]

7 hours ago, lastings said:

Really not the question at all.  That is the basis of every arugument in this thread.   

Seriouly, who’s a better ball striker? 

I gave my opinion. You said in a match of them in their primes who wins?

8 hours ago, lastings said:

But, has anyone tried to figure how they would fair head to head in their prime?

I answered that.

[saevel25]

4 hours ago, GrandStranded said:

I'm not going to get into the who's better argument here, but I think everyone would agree both were great ball strikers. Given that, it's almost unfair to "cherry pick" one, or even a few particular shots made by either one over the course of their careers. Especially Tigers.

Because it’s fun to see the rediculus shots Tiger hit and when he needed them the most. It was pretty absurd. 

That is a good point @mvmac, Jack owned his fade. He knew his shot zone well, and played it masterfully. Tiger hit the shot he wanted when he needed it the most at a masterful level. I don’t think people realize how hard it is to shape the ball like he did. And to do so with the accuracy he did it at. Most PGA Tour players hit one shot shape. They’ll struggle with trying to hit anything else.