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colin007

Why is 17 so hard?

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seriously, what makes this hole such a nightmare? for most of them, its usually a wedge or a 9, they should be throwing darts. is the green really hard? is it sloped that i cant see? is the sq footage smaller than most greens?

is it just that the water makes it that psychologically daunting? or is it usually someone getting greedy? i would think that a tour pro could aim for the center of the green and hit w/in 20 feet of that point and be safe almost every time...

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Huge green, not particularly viciously contoured.......but there's just no miss, none at all.

It's not all that hard. I've played the course twice and hit it both times with a little cut 8 iron. I suspect it gets a little harder when you have 10,000 of your closest friends watching you though......

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but why are pros with a wedge or short iron in hand thinking about where to miss? i mean, unless im 2 down coming to 17, im hitting to the center and two putting for par. it really must be the pressure, i think youre right.

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Good question, was thinking the same thing yesterday. I think 3 things:

1) Effect of the wind is hard to gauge - speed and direction all over the place.

2) Green is slicker for such events than for normal play and you have little room for error if the ball doesn't stop - if it keeps rolling you have only a small tuft of collar to hold it.

3) These guys are really good but we tend to overlook how often their great short/around green game bails them out of less-than-perfect T shots, and on this hole there is no short game.

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I posted a similar reply before on another thread, but I think it's purely the mental intimidation of the water that makes the hole what it is. If the green was surrounded by grass the pros would have no problems with it and the scoring average would drop like a rock.

Pete Dye is famous for using elevation, sand and water to make a course appear smaller and tighter than it really is. Surrounding a green with water makes it appear smaller, and obviously you step to that tee knowing that you can't miss the green.

Combine the mental games that the hole plays with you and the fact that the tall pines all around that hole creates swirling winds, and you have the toughest 130 yard hole on this side of the pond. I still think the postage stamp at Troon is tougher, but that's a subject for another day

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Ever play Sawgrass or stand on the 17th tee? It's a fairly intimidating view. All you see from the tee box is the railroad ties and a sliver of the green. And especially where it comes in the round, it's a sphincter check with zero margin for error. I love that hole!

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It's a hard hole for all of the reasons previously posted. Any combination of those reasons plus knowing that if you screw up there 18 isn't likely to help you out much makes it pretty intimidating.

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17 not so hard this year, minus the breeze.

Boring watching the shots settle in the grass near the planks. In windless years they need to shave that grass to green height.

Maybe tomorrow we can save the week with some premier chokes.

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seriously, what makes this hole such a nightmare? for most of them, its usually a wedge or a 9, they should be throwing darts. is the green really hard? is it sloped that i cant see? is the sq footage smaller than most greens?

There are two factors:

1. The wind---when it blows and is gusting, it takes a perfect shot to hit the green and hold it. 2. The pressure---"USA Today" had a short article yesterday about #17. Gary Koch has played it 16 times in competition, and is 2 under par, BETTER than Johnny Miller or Mark Rolfing. He says it is all "mental". You cannot second guess yourself or make less than a perfect swing. Even top pros do not make "perfect swings" all the time. Ben Hogan, the perfectionist that he was, said that if he could hit TWO good shots in 18 holes, he was satisfied. Of course, to him, "good" meant absolutely perfect.

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I caught a quick glimpse Saturday of a guy whose ball rolled back and was literally within inches of going into the water.. and there it settled

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its a case of wind and pressure! you know you cant make a mistake or else youd be in the drink and that shot becomes harder with 10,000 people watching and winds gusting around! also especially on sunday if you miss the slope then its not the easiest 2-putt putting down the slope!

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I live in Jax and have played that hole dozens of times. The hole is extremely easy and it is only the situation of the Players that makes it difficult. Any tour player can account for the wind, green hardness and visual trickery. The atmosphere of the tourney, money and exemption really play mind games.

I have never made anything worse that a three there. 18 is a whole different story. I might as well just put a "6" on the scorecard at the start of the round. 18 is much harder than 17.

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Its also a place where if you are 1 or 2 down with 2 to play you have to take a chance, because 18 is too hard to expect birdie. I don't see why you wouldn't make the safe 3, Thu/Fri/Sat, but on Sunday if you are within 2 of the lead you have to seek the pin. Once you do that, you can't miss.

I was watching a GC special on that hole and watching Len Mattiace was heartbreaking. Man that guys has had a couple brutal losses.

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I talked to my father in law about it , who's played it a few times, and he said it is just so visually intimidating when youre standing on the tee. It looks like a tiny little dot you have to hit to with water everywhere. Your eye seems to focus a lot on the water.

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These modern guys are good, but NOT as good as Ben Hogan, Gene Sarazen, Bobby Jones, or Walter Hagen. They need to get better.

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Note: This thread is 3808 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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