Drills to maintain knee flex and avoid "the dip"?

[Mr. D]

I have two related issues with my swing that I'm working though and trying to find some drills that can help me.

I recently got back into the game after a hiatus of several years. I played when I was a kid (in my 30s now) and again for a time in my 20s, where I developed half-decent consistency (shot typically in the upper 80s and lower 90s). Unfortunately, I slipped due to the demands of a highly competitive, high stress job that left me little or no time to play or work on my game. Fortunately, I'm at a place in life now where I don't have to work so much and can easily devote 2 - 3 hours a day or more to the game. I've been going to the range and working on my short game and much of it is coming back to me.

However, I'm having consistency issues that I believe are due to failure to maintain a constant flex in my right knee (i.e., straightening my leg) and dipping my upper body and/or head on my back swing. I suspect the latter problem may be a subconscious attempt at compensation for the former problem. Now that I'm aware of the issue(s), I am working on them, but, as it is difficult to take a full length mirror to the range, and I often practice alone, I could really use some drills or other methods to monitor myself.

I used the search function and found a thread addressing the knee flex issue. One good idea seems to be wearing a knee brace to make me more aware of the flex.

Any other ideas, particularly on the dipping?

Thanks in advance.

[umpiremark]

Find the articles in Golf Digest about the Stack and Tilt basics. You're already straigtening your right knee ... read the two articles. As far as keeping your head still and not dipping (I assume the left shoulder) ... again read the articles.

I'm not advocating the Stack and Tilt, mind you, just thinking that perhaps you can incorporate some of the concepts and basics into what you're already doing.

Just my humble opinion ...

[Mr. D]

Find the articles in Golf Digest about the Stack and Tilt basics. You're already straigtening your right knee ... read the two articles. As far as keeping your head still and not dipping (I assume the left shoulder) ... again read the articles.

Thanks for the reply. Found some articles online and this looks very interesting.

http://www.golfdigest.com/instructio...ndtilt1_gd0706 Funny, the "stack and tilt" technique sounds similar to what I perceive as flaws in my swing technique. I think I'd like to incorporate the left foot weight balance they're advocating and see what happens. My main concern with the "stack and tilt" is that it sounds like it has more moving parts, variables, than a traditional swing, which could lead to trouble. Definitely worth a try, though, if it allows me to stick with some of my natural (habitual?) inclinations.

[umpiremark]

With S&T;, there's no weight transfer, less timing of the hands/arms and you're already "locking" that right leg. Read the 2nd part of the article and try to emulate the basics they're talking about. All I'm advocating is getting less parts moving. Drive that left shoulder under your chin while keeping the majority of weight on the left side.

By your post, you're a 36 hndcp with prior success. What you need to do now to get to 25, then 20, then into the teens is:
Hit more fairways; get closer to the green without trouble; get on the green and sink some putts.

Sounds easy but it isn't!! By looking at the S&T; article, all I'm saying is start out KISS. Except I'm not calling you stupid!!! HAHAHA *kidding**

[blackxpress]

I tried the S&T; for a couple of days. Granted, I didn't give it much time so maybe my assessment is unfair but I couldn't stop slicing and pushing the ball to the right. That's a problem I don't have with my regular swing. I also lost just a wee bit of distance.

Anyway, if you want to stick with a traditional swing here's a drill you can try to help with your knee flex issue.

Get yourself a ball (I use a playground ball) like a soccer ball, basketball, kickball, something that size. Place the ball between your knees and practice taking the club back. The ball will help you get the feel for keeping your knees flexed in the backswing. The drill will also help you if you have a problem with swaying, which is why my teacher gave me the drill.

[HookEmHorns]

Ok. I'm pretty much new to this kind of stuff (and I've never taken lessons so take my thoughts for what they're worth).

I was having, and probably still do, problems with the inconsistency in my swing as well. I noticed that I was not keeping my head still so I focused on that part, I adjusted my swing so that I didn't move my head as much, which may be a complete wrong or backwards idea, but it has been working for the most part for me. I don't use as long of a backswing, so I don't need to move my head and therefore hit the ball straighter. I figure that if I can practice focusing on one aspect of my swing I can adjust everything as it needs to be. Or I can find a coach when I get the money (college is EXPENSIVE! haha and graduate school isn't looking any cheaper. haha).

But I would say that a knee brace would be a pretty good idea, and maybe use the S&T; technique with the knee brace. (If that is possible, I haven't studied that much on techniques working on golf swing).

I hope you can find something of help in my rambling. lol

HookEmHorns

[Mr. D]

With S&T;, there's no weight transfer, less timing of the hands/arms and you're already "locking" that right leg. Read the 2nd part of the article and try to emulate the basics they're talking about. All I'm advocating is getting less parts moving. Drive that left shoulder under your chin while keeping the majority of weight on the left side.

Thanks again for the S&T; tip. I carefully read the articles and hit a couple baskets of balls at the range this afternoon. Right away, I was making consistent, crisp shots with my wedges and short irons. First swing with the 7i was dead straight and carried 170 yards (about 20 yards more than my average with that club). Mid irons took a little adjustment, but also worked out nicely after a few miss hits. Long irons not so much, but I got my 7w out of the trunk and had much better luck.

The first few shots with the driver were 175 yard pop flies. Adjusted ball position back some and launch angle improved, but sliced. Strengthened my grip and that straightened them out consistently. I'd prefer to keep my grip consistent with all my clubs (except the putter of course), but I'll take it for now. Maybe I just need to tee up shorter now? Lots to think about and work on. I think there may be something to this - at least for me, because it allows me to "go with the flow" and not fight some of my natural tendencies. Every once in a while I found myself reverting to my traditional swing (weight shift left to right, etc.). I found what really worked for me was to imagine I was crushing a soda can under my left foot on the downswing, per the Golf Digest article. Thanks again to everyone who replied.

[wrx_junki]

That is one and only thing that I've fixed. The only way I fixed it was to make a conscious effort whenever I swing to make sure the flex is there. Even doing many practice swings indoors helps with the muscle memory. I don't even have to pay special attention to it anymore. My once in awhile all arm swing I've yet to fix...

[umpiremark]

With the S&T;, the push slice on long irons, fairway woods and driver is the most common "fault." The S&T; is great for mid-irons and lower, producing straight shots and mini-draws. Here's what I "modified" in my S&T; type swing for longer clubs (no grip changes): Slow the backswing down; make a mental and definate pause at the top and start the move down by sliding the left hip towards the target. Follow through to that perfect "PGA finish" by still sliding the hip forward, rotating the belt buckle to the target - in other words get all the way around on those shots finishing with chest and belt facing the target. Concentrate on swinging inside to out: 7-o'clock to 1-o'clock.

I still push-slice too, when I forget the basics. Golf takes concentration on every shot - and I hate that part!! Beer interupts my concentration too!! (Kidding).

My tiny bit of uneducated advice for longer clubs and the S&T; - slow down, big finishing turn (controlled), PGA finish! I'll gladly knock off 10-15 yards of distance to be center cut in the fairway.

Last drill for longer clubs, at the range - tee the ball up and place your foot behind the ball on the target line. Place a tee at the back of your foot, in line. Place another tee off your ankle towards your stance (left ankle for righties). Take the club back over the in-line tee and swing over the ankle tee trying to hit inside out. Think (in baseball terms) "hit that inside pitch to right field."

Keep us posted on progress, I'm interested to where this goes for you!

[Mr. D]

I've been to the range every day this week and, so far, the S&T; swing seems to work well for me, with one exception, which I'll get to (in a plea for help). My ball striking is better than ever - lots of crisp shots, that great feeling of ball compression on many of them, and generally straight. I do have more of a tendency to draw the ball (which is good) and improved distance - say 10 - 20 yards per club (which is also good).

Sometimes, I'll start to pull or hook the ball, but returning to the S&T; fundamentals always (so far) does the trick.

The best thing about this swing is that it allows me to simply tweak my natural inclinations to get to a decent, repeatable (for the most part) swing.

The worst thing about it is now I can't hit my driver for beans. I either pop them up to first base / shallow right field or pull/hook them towards the third base coach. I would REALLY appreciate some help on this (from Umpire or anyone). I've done some research and tried several things (adjusting tee height / ball position, making sure I'm swinging inside/out, etc.) but no luck.

I could always go back to my old Leadbetter-style swing for the driver. With it, I can drive 250 yards pretty straight. I'd hate to try to employ two different swings, though. That could easily turn into a nightmare on the course. It's really strange, as I can hist fairway woods well enough with S&T.;

I look forward to any comments/tips/advice on this. In the meantime, I'll work on taking nice, easy, slow swings to try to figure this out.

Thanks.

[Mr. D]

Just found this:

"Players who feel too steep coming down with the driver should try one of three things: First, make sure the ball position is far enough forward.The ball should be opposite the front heel with the driver. Second, keep the hand path more to the inside, both on the backswing and more importantly on the downswing. When the hands move out and away from the body on the downswing, the swing gets too steep and over the top. This is a common fault with the driver. Third, the player might need to stand up faster on the downswing. That upward thrust of the lower body helps to shallow out the swing."
- Andy Plummer

I know what I'll be doing at the range tomorrow.

[umpiremark]

Mr. D ...
Driver and fairway wood are my toughest to hit straight with S & T method. I certainly wish there was some on line help (like this forum) where one could go and ask questions/get help. If I don't hit my driver "just right" I get a huge push slice maybe 40-50 yards off line. It's frustrating me this year; I can shoot 42 one round and post a 52 the very next round, purely because I cannot find the short grass.

Some hints ... from a hacker like me ... Like most of the posts already, tee the ball up and farther forward in your stance. Swing slow and take it back parrallel. Downswing is in to out with my right elbow 'trying' to stay close to my body. I feel as though I have to exagerate the right arm going down the line and to the target for my ball to go straight. With driver and fairway wood, I have to make sure my downswing is initiated by my hip thrust to the left all the way to that "PGA finish."

I hope this helps a little; if I knew, I'd be better ...