Tiger's Poor (or Childish or Angry or Unprofessional) Antics

[brn14me]

I am brand new to the sport of golf. I've been playing for about a year off and on but only very recently have started watching and enjoying weekly tournaments, joined a golf forum, hit the driving range 2-3 times a week, generally jumped in feet first to this great sport/hobby.

I personally was very surprised to see the way Tiger acted. Not that it bothers me, it was just surprising. So much is said of the game being a "Gentleman's Game" and how important respect is. There are threads about dress code and how it's insulting to play in a t-shirt, but to slam your club into the ground is not? I've also noticed Tiger is the only one that I've seen that doesn't hand his club to his caddy, even on good shots he just drops it. I know he's worth more than I'll ever see and if his caddy is ok with it, who am I to care......but I noticed that noone else does it on a regular basis.

I find his behavior to be elitist. They made such a big deal about how children were admitted free into Tiger's tourney, I think that does give him a little bit of responsibility to those children.

I'm not sure if Tiger has always been this way but coming from someone who is just now enjoying this wonderful sport, I have found myself rooting for Phil Mickelson and Anthony Kim. Their play is excellent AND their demeanor is admirable.

[Acropo]

I disagree. Many children (adults too) plumb bobb it because the pros do. If anyone thinks Tiger (and he's not the only one, I've seen Nick O'hern and Pat Perez do as bad if not worse than Tiger with slamming clubs) slamming clubs is not a big deal, then you have not experienced another golfer do it in real life. I witnessed a playing partner do a Tiger on 10 at Turnberry and it ruined the entire hole for all four of us. No one could speak because it was so awkward and frightening. If you are a real man and a real golfer, you should be able to control your emotions and not disrupt your playing partners. Even Arnie made fun of Tigers reactions.

I agree with that. I understand that Tiger is under pressure - a whole lot of it - but he has seemed to swear a lot. Anone who thinks the behaviour of pros doesn't affect kids must have missed a lot. You can see, on a school football (soccer) field, kids mimicing the behaviur of the profesionals, whether on TV or not.

Yes, everyone may let one slip from time to time but it really should not be accpted as normal. We are in a public place and I, for one, don't want my game isrupted by yells of 'f***', s***, c***, t*** etc all the time, and having it excused by Tiger's behaviour - or that of anyone else in the public eye. Same applies to club throwing. If he only does it when he hits a bad shot then he must have hit a lot of them. btw - I like the idea of the scoreboard racking up. It may help to achieve two things: raise awareness that people are concerned and don't like it; and draw to Tiger's attention that he really is doing it rather a lot. Or it may make plain to the rest of us that he isn't and it ahs all been a mistake!

[BASHERBAKER69]

When was the last time a player was given a stroke penalty in tournament play for unsportsmanlike conduct?

If things start to get out of hand maybe officials could do Code Violations like in tennis which would be interesting to see!(?) Don't fine players, hit them where it really hurts, on the scorecard.

[iacas]

When was the last time a player was given a stroke penalty in tournament play for unsportsmanlike conduct?

What, we're going to start making up Rules of Golf now?

Nobody who dislikes Tiger's swearing has answered my question: If you could have Tiger without the swearing and without the club slamming but also without the fist pumps and celebrations, would you take it? I still wouldn't. My six-year-old knows it's wrong to swear. And if she chooses to swear when she's 18 or when nobody can hear her, that's fine by me, but she knows that Tiger's "misbehaving" slightly when he swears. She also really likes it when he fist pumps and throws his hat down or whatever. She practices her fist pumps on the putting green when she taps in. Two sides of the same coin. You want the plusses, you get a few negatives, too.

[BASHERBAKER69]

You can have the fist pumps without the other negative behaviour though surely?....it seems to me that after every bad shot something happens, either an expletive or club/bag abuse.

He should just put his club in his bag and walk on. If TW knows the cameras are on him all the time he should curtail the behaviour- simple as that. Even a 'God dammit' is not really acceptable. Stewart Cink and Zach Johnson and co would not like that remark due to their religious beliefs- it's tantamount to blasphemy.

The game needs to be cleaned up-it's not just Tiger, it's any player who acts in a way that undermines the game. I don't think it's being petty really, they are in a privileged position and should realsie that they re on tv. Having said that we are viewing the players behaviour in isolation, and actually it's not that big a deal-.

[iacas]

You can have the fist pumps without the other negative behaviour though surely?

From everything I know about people, both from what I've experienced and what I've read, no, not really. At least not naturally.

He should just put his club in his bag and walk on. If TW knows the cameras are on him all the time he should curtail the behaviour- simple as that.

Sez you. I also know it's not "simple as that."

Even a 'God dammit' is not really acceptable.

Sez you.

Clearly not everyone agrees with you. And all of this coming from a fan of John Daly? Your support for JD is well known. Dude, you've really got no room to talk. Smells like nothing but jealousy or something now that I remember you support John Daly...

Stewart Cink and Zach Johnson and co would not like that remark due to their religious beliefs- it's tantamount to blasphemy.

Tiger's probably doesn't have the same faith as them. Duh. Weakest argument you've ever made.

[ElWagonne]

Though I am not a huge fan of Tiger, I refuse to cast stones from my glass house as it pertains to his cussing and/or other forms of behavior. I like to see a little emotion from him anyways. For those saying that his acts rub off on kids, I go to the quote from noted golfer of ill repute Charles W. Barkley "Athletes shouldn't be role models....parents are".

[bIGwIRE]

You can have the fist pumps without the other negative behaviour though surely?....

Maybe, but do we want to risk it? The celebrations and the angry tantrums mimic life overall, and it is exciting to watch. The ups aren't as high without the downs, if that makes sense. In a way I see it as being more "honest", if

that makes any sense. lol Also, if you've ever coached youth hockey, or listened to the conversations in the junior high halways nowdays, you'd realize that the youth of America would probably teach Tiger a few new words, not the other way around. (my own daughters, as well as yours, I'm sure, are, of courrse, excluded from this broad statement)

[rtbuckshot]

I have not read every post in this thread. I simply wanted to give another opinion that I think Tiger's actions after a bad shot are pathetic.

The G** D** he dropped on the 1st tee of the US Open made my draw drop.
And slamming the club down this whole past week was very classless.

I have an appreciation for his talent and his relentless pursuit to get better. But as far as respect for him as an individual, forget it. Put it this way, my kids would NEVER be around him unless I was standing right there.

I was glad to see ABC/ESPN take note of Tiger's actions in their montage to Tom Watson and how he has respect for the game. And also one of the Golf channel commentators spoke to it as well. People are starting to notice because it is so blatant.

Tiger needs to work on his self-control as hard as he works on his golf game.

As for Stewart Cink, a very classy guy. I actually played high school golf against him and we went along with our team to the state tournament years ago.

[Trav]

Nobody who dislikes Tiger's swearing has answered my question:

That's because it's a false "choice." No reason you should have to choose between the two. Tiger can fix this if he wants to.

[iacas]

The G** D** he dropped on the 1st tee of the US Open made my draw drop. And slamming the club down this whole past week was very classless.

So you've never done either of those things in your life, on the golf course or elsewhere? Or is your house as silica-based as everyone else's here?

That's because it's a false "choice." No reason you should have to choose between the two. Tiger can fix this if he wants to.

No it's not; not really. Not based one everything I've come to understand from my own life experiences and what I've read from people in the "mind field" (psychologists and the like).

I agree with Barkley. Parents as role models I get. Athletes as role models, boy, that kind of assumes your kids are pretty stupid or that you've done a poor job of teaching them, doesn't it?

[Jay-Bird]

Tiger's antics bother me a bit, simply because it's disrespectful of the game. Slamming and throwing clubs is unacceptable behavior for any 34 year-old-man. Dropping F bombs and other profanities is acceptable, but shunned.

Being a hypocrite, I too will slam a club or let out some F bombs if the situation arises. An immediate release of the anger/frustration helps me get it out, and calm back down. If I make a horrible mistake on the course and it bothers me, but I don't express that anger/frustration - it will bother me longer.

I also LOVE to smoke on the course, but I'm not on TV.

[Uber$winG]

I wonder if Tiger has always been this passionate about his golf game.

For instance, if he missed that putt playing against Bob Hope on the Mike Douglas Show would he have had a two-year old tantrum?

I also wonder how his old man would respond to his outbursts. I wonder how Tiger would go about explaining these outbursts to his own children.

How much pressure is Tiger really under? I mean, in the final analysis it’s just a game – he’s not walking point in a roving patrol in downtown Baghdad.

I often hear that Tiger is “mentally tough,” and I think that these outbursts are a sign of weakness.

[TheNatural]

"deleted material as to why he shouldnt lose his temper."


I could take TW without the swearing and fist pumps & Im not a fan of his. However, I would watch him over any player, quite a paradox. I think I subconsciously watch him to see what happens when he screws up. whoa. just deleted my argument.

[ERC7.5]

I'm also with Barkley on this one. Parents, aunts, uncles, siblings, etc... I understand as role models. Whether it's following in their paths in life and learning from them or from learning from their mistakes in life and choosing a different path.

Athletes/Professionals can be a different form of "role model". As long as it's limited to what it is they do....their field. Learn from how they'd made it to where they are in they're particular field. If that's where you'd like to be, then.....

I think Tiger covers the spectrum of emotions involved in the game nicely. And about the complaining of this going on on TV.....what TV program can you watch where you don't here G** D***it, S**t, A**, B***h or see violence?

• Sitcoms - Nope
• Dramas - Nope
• Network News - Nope
• Any other sport - Negative
• NASA channel - yeah....but....
• Discovery - Not sure but probably

[Chas]

Raw emotion comes from the heart and goes to the mouth, generally skipping over the part of our brain that controls the "what if" scenario's, meaning at that particular moment, he may not be thinking about any possible repercussions.

Raw emotion expressed in the way you describe is something that one expects from a ten year old, a kid who adults patiently try to teach how to behave. It is NOT behavior that we expect of someone in his thirties, especially someone in a position like Tiger's. You talk as if every time Tiger hits a really lousy shot it's the first time he's ever done it, and thus he hasn't had the opportunity to consider repercussions. He's a bit beyond that now don't you think ...

Erik: I will answer your question, in the affirmative. It is a false dichotomy however, since there is no reason why Tiger couldn't pump his fists (and show other expressions of positive emotions) and at the same time control his negative emotions to the point of NOT throwing his club around or swearing. I will certainly get frustrated out there at times, especially when I don't get set up properly at address and chunk the blasted ball 30 yards (5i) instead of watching it sail about 170. This really pi**es me off ..... I will go "pshawwww" and shake my head but I will not throw my club. I sometimes play with someone who does throw his club after a bad shot. It's rather unpleasant to witness but he's a nice fellow and he gets over it quickly. Unfortunately it happens a few times a round because he's often in deep rough and hasn't figured out how to get out with a lofted club ..... But he's an amateur who's only been playing about 3 years, it's a tough game to learn as we all know. It's a rather different matter for a blasted pro who's been playing since he could walk.

[Mr. M]

I'm willing to entertain the notion that good Tiger and bad Tiger are flip sides of the same coin. However, the bad Tiger side lands face up far more than the good Tiger side.

This is fact: He almost never reacts with outward affirmation when he makes a good shot. He almost always reacts with the negative extreme when he makes a bad shot. You may counter that with: "Well, he expects to make good shots." I would counter that with: "For a guy who always expects to make good shots, he sure has been making a lot of bad shots lately."

Also, it is my observation that many (maybe most) athletes whose personalities suggest an all-or-nothing mentality often self-destruct. Reconciling such extremes is, I think, sometimes too burdensome for one man.

[iacas]

It is NOT behavior that we expect of someone in his thirties, especially someone in a position like Tiger's.

No, it's not something YOU would expect.

And compared to what? Again, watch other sports. Tiger's act is tame compared to the crap going on there.

It is a false dichotomy however, since there is no reason why Tiger couldn't pump his fists (and show other expressions of positive emotions) and at the same time control his negative emotions to the point of NOT throwing his club around or swearing.

I still say it's not, to me. Again, everything I've heard from people and everything I've witnessed in my life leads me to feel that way. And there's really no way for either of us to state for a fact one way or the other - it's just an opinion - but go ahead and keep trying to say "it is" like it's a fact...

I will go "pshawwww" and shake my head but I will not throw my club.

When's the last time you saw Tiger throw his club? I've seen him drop it on the follow-through - something Anthony Kim did with Tiger at Congressional - and I've seen him hit things with the clubhead or the grip, but the last time he's ever thrown it? It was at his golf bag, probably sometime last year (perhaps even the U.S. Open), and I still don't see it as a big deal. So he threw his club near his bag, away from people, more aggressively than necessary. Not a big deal to me.

It's a rather different matter for a blasted pro who's been playing since he could walk.

Why? There's one train of thought that says the pro should be more upset at hitting a bad shot than the amateur, who should expect to hit quite a few bad ones, after all.

I'm willing to entertain the notion that good Tiger and bad Tiger are flip sides of the same coin. However, the bad Tiger side lands face up far more than the good Tiger side.

And your stats on this are... what? It sounds like you're just guessing, and looking through glasses tinted with whatever color "I don't like Tiger" is.

I don't know what his relative percentages are. I'd say they're probably more positive than not. But I consider a small fist pump, pointing at the hole, his club twirl, and the leg kick thing he does as positive celebrations on the magnitude of "goddammit Tiger" and bigger fist pumps on the order of club slamming. And, again, I'd consider them fairly even if not slightly positive.

This is fact: He almost never reacts with outward affirmation when he makes a good shot.

That's not a fact. You're just not seeing the things. He'll raise the putter often on a long putt. He'll give a little fist pump. Watch him with Stevie and they'll give fives or fist bumps. He'll twirl his club. He'll stick out his tongue. He'll walk after putts or shots.

I guess you're ONLY counting the huge fist pumps, which he tends to reserve for HUGE moments.

Also, it is my observation that many (maybe most) athletes whose personalities suggest an all-or-nothing mentality often self-destruct. Reconciling such extremes is, I think, sometimes too burdensome for one man.

Tiger's won 14 majors with the attitude he has now... if you think he's somehow gotten worse, you must not have been paying attention when he first came on Tour in the late 90s, because people were talking about his "goddammits" then, too. He's the same guy in that respect.