Tiger's Poor (or Childish or Angry or Unprofessional) Antics

[CG031]

I hear what you're saying, I guess it just isn't that big of a deal to me. I've been seeing it happen for many years with many different players. Some guys, like Craig Stadler, turned it almost turned it into comic art.

I hear what you're saying, as well. I've thrown my fair share of clubs at times...

believe me . ;) I actually do find it to be comedy when he gets into one of his tirades after a bad drive or something, but I do think it DOES damage the kids who look up to him. They certainly do it because Tiger does it, sadly...and being 17 I know this for a fact.

[Cesar]

I hear what you're saying, as well. I've thrown my fair share of clubs at times...

They may do it because Tiger does it OR they may do it because that's just what a lot of kids do. Lord knows I broke my share of clubs as a junior and I didn't have anyone to blame but myself as Tiger is the same age as I am.

At one tournament it required me and two of my friends to help unlodge my putter from the turf after I buried it almost a foot deep behind the 18th green. Kids, particulrly teens, have ALWAYS had real bad tempers on golf courses. It has been that way before Tiger and will be that way long after he is gone.

[Lemay427]

I hear what you're saying, as well. I've thrown my fair share of clubs at times...

That is a bold statement LOL

[Acropo]

I find the discussion a little surprising and I ask three questions;

1. do you swear/curse, spit or throw things in front of your wife(spouse) and kids?
2. Would you swear/curse, spit or throw things in front of my wife and kids?
3. Would you be OK with it if I turned up and began to swear/curse, spit or throw things in front of your wife(spouse) and kids?

I'd expect the answer to all the above would be no - I'd be very surprised if it wasn't. That being so, why excuse it in someoen else?

Does it compare? Yes, in effect, it does because anyone who does it on a golf course on the TV is doing it, unasked, in front of everyone watching.

Any comparisons with other sports, such as football (either kind), cricket, baseball, etc, are false. Only in golf does everyone - players, spectators, etc - become quiet during the play. Only in golf are the effects mikes close enough to pick everything up, so the fact that players in other sports may mouth off is irrelevant - we don't get to hear it, if it happens.

But for everyone's interest, especially in N America, we have a game in Europe and many other parts of the world called Rugby Union. It's a bit like American football but play doesn't stop every time someone is tackled. The players take lumps out of each other, they neither give nor expect any quarter. Foul language on the pitch is punished by a penalty - and the culprit is sin-binned, more often than not.

(Bristol are pretty good at it but there is room for improvement, btw!)

One of the reasons I enjoy golf is that it is a game I know will normally be played without the tantrums we see in other sports. I would not like to see the day when you hear swearing and see club-tossing everywhere you look, all excused by 'Tiger does it'. The behaviour of top players does influence others - even adults. Butch Harmon said that, when he was playing, he imitated Arnold Palmer - right down to hitching his trousers before taking his address.

Whether Tiger likes it or not, he sets an example. I admire him as a player very much but I wish he would cut out the other stuff. Nick Faldo said once that he used to have the tantrums when he was a kid. On one occasion, he saw the club secretary or captain or something coming over and thought he was going to get a rollicking. Instead, he talked to him about something else - an upcoming match or something. He made to go away and the turned back and said 'oh, I almost forgot. I used to throw my clubs around when I hit a bad shot. Never made a difference and didn't help my game'.

[Cesar]

I find the discussion a little surprising and I ask three questions;

This is golf we're talking about, right?

Golf has been notorious for many many years of being able to reduce a grown civilized man into an emotional wreck within minutes. It's been happening forever. There have been countless commercials/movies over the years where players are found cursing, hurling clubs, throwing an entire bag of clubs into a nearby lake, etc. that play off of this fact. It is a human reaction. Now while not all players wear their displeasure on their sleave as Tiger does, I'm still not going to crucify the guy for something I still do from time to time. He's not the first and he certainly won't be the last. As for spitting, I never really heard of that being a huge deal until I came across this forum. And I've played with some real old school "guardian of the game" types for over 20 years. As long as you're not spitting on the tee or green, or in Sergio's case, in the cup itself, I don't see what the problem is.

[Fat Slice]

As long as you're not spitting on the tee or green, or in Sergio's case, in the cup itself, I don't see what the problem is.

Give Sergio a break - he has to put SOMEthing in the cup!

[DavidFehertysBike]

give sergio a break - he has to put something in the cup!

ziiiiing!

[Cesar]

Give Sergio a break - he has to put SOMEthing in the cup!

Hillarious!!!

[Acropo]

This is golf we're talking about, right?

Yes, it is golf.

Golf has been notorious for many many years of being able to reduce a grown civilized man into an emotional wreck within minutes. It's been happening forever. There have been countless commercials/movies over the years where players are found cursing, hurling clubs, throwing an entire bag of clubs into a nearby lake, etc. that play off of this fact. It is a human reaction.

Agree with all but the 'cursing' bit. Yes, sometimes, when the character portrayed is a no-hope duffer. But the point is - they are no-hope duffers. They aren't champions.

Now while not all players wear their displeasure on their sleave as Tiger does, I'm still not going to crucify the guy for something I still do from time to time. He's not the first and he certainly won't be the last.

Do you do it on TV?

Or, perhaps more to the point, do you do it in your office/place of work (assuming it isn't a sewer!)? I noticed this on another thread. "This is part of an article from ESPN Magazine about Tiger and the example he sets - (especially for kids) which is part of his responsibility. Quote: If there were no six-second delay, Tiger Woods would be the reason to invent it. Every network has been burned by having the on-course microphone open when he blocks one right into the cabbage and starts with the F-bombs. Once, at Doral, he unleashed a string of swear words at a photographer that would've made Artie Lange blush, and then snarled, "'The next time a photographer shoots a [expletive] picture, I'm going to break his [expletive] neck!" He's grown in every other way. He's committed, responsible, smart, funny, and the most talented golfer in history. I just thought we'd be over the conniptions by now. It's disrespectful to the game, disrespectful to those he plays with and disrespectful to the great players who built the game before him. Ever remember Jack Nicklaus doing it? Arnold Palmer? When Tom Watson was getting guillotined in that playoff to Stewart Cink, did you see him so much as spit? Only one great player ever threw clubs ( as an amateur no less) -- Bobby Jones -- and he stopped in his 20s when he realized how spoiled he looked." That pretty much makes the point, I think.

[Cesar]

Agree with all but the 'cursing' bit. Yes, sometimes, when the character portrayed is a no-hope duffer. But the point is - they are no-hope duffers. They aren't champions.

Champions do it too, hence the point of this thread. Many great golfers have done it throughout it's history and will continue to do it many years into the future.

Golf isn't limited to driving just a hopeless duffers into madness, it can/does/will get to the best of them at times. In fact the better player you are and the higher expectations you have of yourself, the liklihood of losing your cool increases dramatically in my opinion.

Do you do it on TV? Or, perhaps more to the point, do you do it in your office/place of work (assuming it isn't a sewer!)?

You're comparing apples and oranges. I don't play a competitve sport for a living, so what I do in the office has no bearing on what I do on the golf course.

It's pretty apparent that I don't hold players to the same standard that you do when they are competing. Maybe it's just because I've grown up seeing golfers get pi$$ed off since I can remember, it's just part of the game to me I guess. The higher the stakes, the bigger the competitor, the more frequent the f bombs if things weren't going well.

I noticed this on another thread. "This is part of an article from ESPN Magazine about Tiger and the example he sets - (especially for kids) which is part of his responsibility. Quote: If there were no six-second delay, Tiger Woods would be the reason to invent it. Every network has been burned by having the on-course microphone open when he blocks one right into the cabbage and starts with the F-bombs. Once, at Doral, he unleashed a string of swear words at a photographer that would've made Artie Lange blush, and then snarled, "'The next time a photographer shoots a [expletive] picture, I'm going to break his [expletive] neck!" He's grown in every other way. He's committed, responsible, smart, funny, and the most talented golfer in history. I just thought we'd be over the conniptions by now. It's disrespectful to the game, disrespectful to those he plays with and disrespectful to the great players who built the game before him. Ever remember Jack Nicklaus doing it? Arnold Palmer? When Tom Watson was getting guillotined in that playoff to Stewart Cink, did you see him so much as spit? Only one great player ever threw clubs ( as an amateur no less) -- Bobby Jones -- and he stopped in his 20s when he realized how spoiled he looked." That pretty much makes the point, I think.

I'm not old enough to say for a fact what guys like Arnold and Jack did, and certainly not old enough to comment on Bobby Jones. But I have it on pretty good authority from some of the old timers at my club, a couple of them some of the top players in California in their day and total straight shooters, that Arnie used bury his clubs in anger, get a little liberal with the liquor, and treat his caddie like dog $hit.

I can also remember seeing highlights from Jack's younger days where he wasn't immune from slamming a club against his bag in anger. Lee Trevino, as fun loving as he is on camera, is supposedly one of the biggest arseholes you'll ever meet if there are no cameras around. Me thinks there is some selective memory going on here and one hell of a lot "holier than thou" being spewed. Who knows, maybe when Tiger has broken all of the records and is a nice old man, maybe then people will be critisizing the next young star and saying that "Tiger never did that kind of stuff back in the day."

[Chas]

Well and eloquently said IMO Acropo (all posts this thread). Golf aspires to be a different sort of game, just think of the cheating opportunities versus other sports. Self-discipline is key to the sport and we're all fallible. Of course we all now that Tiger has remarkable self-discipline in all other aspects, he just isn't a blasted Saint when it comes to this (or would consider himself one).

Good comparative points v. other sports. I used to follow rugby when I lived over the pond, even played it in school (in Somerset) back in the day. Too blasted winded to swear much of the time tho' (outside three quarter or wing) LOL

[TigerCent]

There is no excuse for Tiger to act like he does. I don't care how much pressure he is under. And every one else on tour is playing to win also. And he should release his anger other ways. Woody Austin, a hot head himself, said it best at a press conference, last year or the year before. "Why is it when I throw my club, or slam it to the ground or my bag, I am considered a hot head, unprofessional, whatever. Yet when TIGER does it, that is ok because he is a very competative person. I am tired of hearing about Tiger and it's a load of crap!" Maybe not in those exact words, but similar. But he is 100% correct. I am so happy each time Tiger misses a cut too.

Guess you aren't happy very often...

[Dr. Manhattan]

Interestingly enough, while following Phil Mickelson's group at the 2003 Shell Houston Open I witnessed Geoff Ogilvy go on a tirade that would rival even Tiger's worst outbursts. He was in a greenside bunker in two shots at a par 5. He chunked the bunker shot, leaving himself 15 feet for birdie. Let's keep this in perspective: most people who were following thought it was a decent/good shot. Geoff hated it enough to repeatedly slam his wedge into the bunker, then slammed it into his bag, all the while unleashing a slew of f-bombs and other obscenities. The funniest part of this was that he ended up draining the putt for birdie.

He has since toned down his temper BIG TIME after admitting it was a problem. I remember being pretty surprised that he won a U.S. Open because at the time I still had that impression in my mind of him being an unfocused hothead. Regarding Tiger's temper, I'm not a fan of it. I usually make fun of myself when I hit a poor shot on the golf course. Everyone deals with things differently. I do think Tiger is one of the worst offenders on Tour but I also know that the media shows literally every shot of his even when he's playing lousy. It's a different microscope that he deals with than the rest of the Tour. But at the same time, he should have adjusted to that microscope by now. I don't entirely blame Tiger either. I think Earl Woods didn't take control of the situation when Tiger was a kid. At one point in Nicklaus' childhood when he had recently began golfing, he slammed a club after hitting a poor shot and his father told him that if he ever saw him do that again, he'd never let him play the game so long as Jack lived under his roof. That straightened Jack up pretty quickly. If Tiger's dad had used a similar strategy with him, maybe he would have taken a different path. As it is, he has 30 years of a bad temper ingrained in his golfing personality. I think the only thing that might make him want to change his behavior is if his kids start mimicking him after seeing TV coverage of his antics.

[Awsi Dooger]

"This is part of an article from ESPN Magazine about Tiger and the example he sets - (especially for kids) which is part of his responsibility.

After attending Doral the past two years following a lengthy absence, I'm amazed at the obvious lack of scrutiny in regard to who gets a photographer's credential. Not to excuse Tiger but I'm not exactly surprised something like that happened at Doral. This year I saw a Hispanic woman inside the ropes who had no clue what she was doing. She snapped away several times from close range during backswings of chips and putts.

Tiger is getting too much of a pass in this thread, IMO. He's altered his outrage criteria to the point a poor shot that previously was worth only a disgusted glare now earns a club slam, it takes less to produce a profanity, and so forth. He's been compared to Federer in this thread and on this site. Roger had a comparatively poor year in 2008 and then lost the Australian Open final to Nadal to open 2009. It was clearly wearing on Federer but only once did he lose cool on the court, a high profile racket slam during a loss at Key Biscayne this year. Seemingly the only restraint Tiger manages now is when he's piled up so many errors it would take too much out of him, and look ridiculous, if he exploded every time. The second round stretch of the British Open early on the back nine was below norm in tantrums only because Tiger seemed resigned to his fate for a few holes. Part of Tiger's problem is the facial expressions he adopts during the tantrums. Not exactly charming or apologetic. I saw Phil unload a g-dammit after an errant tee shot into a fairway bunker on Doral #8 this year, but it came across as so reluctant and atypical that the few fans near me who heard it as I did erupted in brief laughter. With Tiger I shake my head and wonder when/if he's going to grow out of it.

[CG031]

Lee Trevino, as fun loving as he is on camera, is supposedly one of the biggest arseholes you'll ever meet if there are no cameras around.

This is absolutely not true at all, at least from what I've heard from my dad and a few others I talked to who went to tournaments he played in. I heard he acted just like he did when he was on camera, my dad went to several U.S. open's and professional tournaments and said lee trevino was seemingly always a fun loving guy.... i'm sure he had his moments but i don't think he was always an 'arsehole' when the camera's were off.

Anyway, back on topic. To Cesar: I don't think anyone is EXPECTING Tiger to NEVER slam a club, or NEVER use a profanity. People just expect it quite a bit less often. It shouldn't be something you see during every round or two.

Tiger is getting too much of a pass in this thread, IMO. He's altered his outrage criteria to the point a poor shot that previously was worth only a disgusted glare now earns a club slam, it takes less to produce a profanity, and so forth. He's been compared to Federer in this thread and on this site. Roger had a comparatively poor year in 2008 and then lost the Australian Open final to Nadal to open 2009. It was clearly wearing on Federer but only once did he lose cool on the court, a high profile racket slam during a loss at Key Biscayne this year. Seemingly the only restraint Tiger manages now is when he's piled up so many errors it would take too much out of him, and look ridiculous, if he exploded every time. The second round stretch of the British Open early on the back nine was below norm in tantrums only because Tiger seemed resigned to his fate for a few holes.

Yeah, I agree. He does it far too often, and it seems to be getting even worse since he's been frustrated in Major's the past three he's played in.

[Blades4me]

Yeah, I agree. It's the exact reason I'm not a Tiger fan...or not much of one anyway. I still really enjoy watching him play and appreciate his ability but I took my nephew to the Bridgestone Invitational back in '07 and we waited at the 6th tee box for over an hour to get ahead of the crowd and wait for Tiger to come tee off there.

LOL, how did Woody Austin put it last year......."when Tiger swears and has a tantrum on the course it is his intense competitive atittude, but if the rest of us do it, we can't contol our tempers."

IMO, the press in its infinite quest to make stories and hype the crap out of anything has created this....what a bunch of twits and obsequious syncophants

[Acropo]

Cesar said: "Champions do it too, hence the point of this thread."

I think an emerging point of this thread is that 'ChampION' (singular - i.e., Tiger) does it and he does it a lot.

LOL, how did Woody Austin put it last year......."when Tiger swears and has a tantrum on the course it is his intense competitive atittude, but if the rest of us do it, we can't contol our tempers."

That's it! Hits the nail right on the head.

[iacas]

Tiger is getting too much of a pass in this thread, IMO.

That's your opinion. And that's what's great about this: I can disagree. I can say something like "Tiger is getting unnecessarily hounded in this thread, IMO."