What other way can the PGA make a course harder?

[whetstone]

We were having a polite conversation, there's no need to get personal.

to make the game harder, could they not leave everything the same, but, make the hole a half inch smaller?

[pittpanther]

1. Put out of bounds along the sides of all fairways.

I really like #1! Hitting into the trees, or hitting into another fairway - these should be penalized as OB.

For #2, I would make a small change. Make fairway bunkers a two-stroke penalty, with greenside bunkers a one-stroke penalty. I would even be willing to make a trade - add bunker penalty strokes, but allow them to ground their club in the hazard. I don't like option #3 - you're just artificially disallowing long drives. If you want to make length illegal, why not just disallow any club longer than 42 inches... or reduce the dimple count on the ball.

[whetstone]

I believe a combination of things would help...
Slower fairways, graduated rough, and deeper bunkers would make it more challenging. Mowing doglegs into narrowed fairways could reward the finesse players, as would tucking hole locations. But, at the end of the day, why should we? Par is a pretty arbitrary number anyway. The guys still have to play 4 rounds in fewer strokes than their opponents. We could make "par" 54 on some of the courses with everyone coming in 10-15 over, and it would still be 64-69 strokes.

[pinhigh27]

how about slow greens? Like normal stimp ratings if not lower than normal. I still don't get people's thinking when they say the faster the greens the nicer the course. Sure some nice courses tend to have fast greens, but why not challenge the players? Make them adapt week to week!

[Mitch C]

A combination of things: shorter courses, bringing more players into contention; longer grass in fairways leading to less roll and a bit less control on iron shots; narrower fairways and higher rough with galleries kept back far enough that they can't trample down all the rough, making precision more important than length; and furrowed bunkers.

I'm not in favor of any artificial rules like making it a penalty if one hits in a bunker. Simply make the bunkers more difficult to play. In the days when hitting a ball in a bunker was a real penalty, bunkers weren't in pristine condition and composed of special sand shipped in from who knows where. Make them out of local sands and instead of keeping them in pristine condition, neglect them and furrow them. One course on the tour in the 30s used to have special rakes that actually created furrows that made the bunkers devilishly hard. Make those rakes standard on the tour.

[Trav]

He never said that. He simply said that power should give an advantage... the logical assumption isn't "over finesse," but over those with less power..

If that's what he meant, then I'm fine with that, at least to a point. In my experience, when people speak of power (distance) as a game component, they usually mean in contrast to other aspects of the game, such as accuracy.

Watching someone hit 350 yards to another fairway isn't something that strikes me as deserving an advantage, as compared to someone hitting 290-300 to a fairway spot to set up a well-conceived second shot for the pin placement.

[microcrayfish]

A combination of things: shorter courses, bringing more players into contention; longer grass in fairways leading to less roll and a bit less control on iron shots; narrower fairways and higher rough with galleries kept back far enough that they can't trample down all the rough, making precision more important than length; and furrowed bunkers.

I agree with the bit about the bunkers. Having to potentially play out of someone's footprint or divot in a bunker is a real incentive to not hit into one. Pros are way too good at sand shots for most bunkers to be a huge issue for them. If bunkers were enough of a challenge that the pros had to really avoid them or most likely drop a shot then pin placements close to bunkers would make the pros have to hit better shots into greens or risk losing a stroke.

[Jhans9c1]

Land mines....Ball hits a land mine and is counted as a lost ball and/or o.b. penalty

[hippyboy]

I agree with the bit about the bunkers. Having to potentially play out of someone's footprint or divot in a bunker is a real incentive to not hit into one. Pros are way too good at sand shots for most bunkers to be a huge issue for them. If bunkers were enough of a challenge that the pros had to really avoid them or most likely drop a shot then pin placements close to bunkers would make the pros have to hit better shots into greens or risk losing a stroke.

Agree totally about the bunkers, how many times do you hear the commentator say "he will be ok if that's in the bunker" implying it is an easier shot from the bunker than from the rough surrounding it (which for the pro it probably is)

[CG031]

I rather be in a bunker than real long greenside rough too...You can spin it out of the bunkers, you can't out of the rough.

For me when I play, I rather be in the rough for my 2nd shot off the tee than in a fairway bunker..but if I was playing in that thick of rough like at the PGA I'd probably choose the fairway bunker as well.

[pittpanther]

Agree totally about the bunkers, how many times do you hear the commentator say "he will be ok if that's in the bunker" implying it is an easier shot from the bunker than from the rough surrounding it (which for the pro it probably is)

Fairway bunkers in the USA (as opposed to pot bunkers in the UK) are not much of a problem for PGA pros. In fact, I'm a high-handicapper and do not fear fairway bunkers either. As long as the ball is not buried, it's just a regular stroke (as opposed to a greenside bunker where you have to hit the sand first...).

Bunkers either need to be made more-difficult for the pros (make them deeper, softer sand so the ball is always deep in the sand) or it should cost a stroke.

[DavidFehertysBike]

I good point about the spin from greenside bunkers. Pros might start looking to miss in certain bunkers with the new groove rule for wedges coming next season.

[enduro]

They should put poisonous snakes in the bunkers! Then players WON'T be OK if they end up in them!

[lobsterzilla]

lol wth...

[SquareIT]

They should put poisonous snakes in the bunkers! Then players WON'T be OK if they end up in them!

With friggin laser beams attached to their heads!

But seriously I'm with most everyone on making bunkers tougher. Bunkers should be tough enough that simply getting out of them is the goal of the shot. Not just a minor inconvenience or even improvement over some lies you can get in thick rough.

[lobsterzilla]

agreed i've never liked the modern change to bunkers being much easier to hit out of than the surrounding rough. lets reverse the trend !

[Jay-Bird]

Deeper bunkers. Tighter fairways. Rolling (uneven) fairways. Taller rough. Harder (more firm) greens.

[Zeph]

I good point about the spin from greenside bunkers. Pros might start looking to miss in certain bunkers with the new groove rule for wedges coming next season.

Does grooves matter that much for spin out of bunkers? I thought it was the cushion of sand carrying the ball that created the spin.