Say NO! to gps/yardage computers

[iWALK18]

Well I use a laser, and I feel like throwing in my 2cents on this.
(Full disclosure, I'm 24 years old. I have no idea what this has to do with anything, but it seems to matter to the OP so...)

First of all, knowing the distance my laser gives me is not the end of my distance calculation. I must also consider: elevation changes, wind, altitude, lie, slope, pin placement, weather conditions, landing area ground conditions, etc... So to say that using a laser makes the process of club and shot selection "robotic" is just naive IMHO.

Secondly, it takes me no more than 10 seconds to get my yardage with my laser. I am a faster player with a laser. Period.

Third, if you use any means of measuring distance on a golf course, including yardage markers, sprinkler heads, yardage books, caddies, etc., you cannot be critical of lasers or GPS. Lasers/GPS are simply faster, more accurate, and more convenient ways of getting the exact same information.

Fourth, i completely understand people not wanting to use a laser/GPS. Just don't try to force that ideology onto everyone else.

Finally, A GPS/Laser only provides information. This information wont make a player hit better golf shots. You can't hand a GPS to a 40 'capper and turn him to a 20. But, it will allow a golfer's better shots, the ones figured correctly and struck as he intended, to be properly rewarded more often. Whats so wrong with that? Golf is enough of a crap shoot as it is.

[denver_nuggs_15]

Don't you want a correct yardage?

GPS are not 100% accurate. To the pin, center, or anything, they usually are off. I've used every major brand of GPS with the exception of Bushnell's newer stuff and they usually are off. Not by much, but they're certainly not "correct". Using a laser properly or walking off the yardage is much more "correct" IMO.

Also, what is faster...

I'll bet that it makes no major difference. You have to wait for the GPS to get the updated yardage (there's always a lag). You must also put it back in your pocket or bag or whatever. If you're an efficient yardage-getter, I'd bet that it won't make a difference time wise.

If you're walking to your ball, make a point to pass a yardage marker.

I dont know why hes so upset with a simple GPS system, its like carrying your own caddie everywhere.

That's very insulting. Have you caddied? Ever had a (good) caddie? It's nothing like having your own caddie. Not at all. It's like having a yardage book, but not like having a caddie.

Reasons for GPS: 1) Time. I contend that there is no major difference between using a GPS, laser, or walking off yardage in terms of time. I've caddied and golfed about 500 times the past 5 years. I've used every GPS and laser. It's only more convenient when I'm caddying because I can be a little lazier. And there are times when I don't use it because a lack of accuracy and refresh time. 2) Correct yardages. A laser will, but GPS's are more inaccurate (on average) than any yardage marker I've ever seen. A GPS will give you a lot of numbers and I like that, but I still trust the course markers (or a laser) more. I forget the other reasons that were discussed in the thread. Actually, most of this thread was bashing the OP for one sentence in his original post. The thread is about GPS's, how they may be hurting the game, and if they really matter. That's what I've read anyway. By arguing anything different (like what clubs/shafts/balls he's using and how that correlates to a GPS) is avoiding the topic and making a poor argument. I truly believe with everything in me that using GPS's or lasers (and riding also) is not how the founders meant the game to be played. Getting your own yardages is a major aspect of the game IMO. It makes the game so much more challenging. You might have indecision about the yardage you got, the club you're going to use, the shot you're going to play, and so on. And I think that indecision, and the commitment to a club and shot regardless, makes golf great. It separates it from any other sport I've ever played. Your head is much more involved because there are so many variables. The best feeling for me is overcoming all of the variables. Elevation change, different lies, wind, temperature, and yardage are all variables. If I have a poor lie in the rough with wind at my back hitting into a green that's sloped away from me with a potential that my yardage might be off, and I execute...there's no better feeling. Not using a GPS puts more stress on getting good yardages yourself. I don't think that yardages should be wrong, just that if you're not good at getting a yardage, it will be off and you'll hit a lackluster shot. It's the same with elevation change, wind, etc.; not being able to judge these variables well makes your shots tougher. If you want the mental part of the game to be as easy as possible, I think that's not what the founders had in mind. I think that's why the game is great: indecision with the mental side of the game.

[shankapotamus]

GPS are not 100% accurate.

That's the first time I have ever heard somebody say that. He meant a yardage book, I thought it was pretty obvious.

[mirv]

interesting arguments going on in here. i am not opposed to GPS programs/computers/whatever, but i don't personally have much inclination to use one. i'll find the yardage marker on the course or just trust my eyes. not because i'm opposed, as i said, but just because that's how i feel like doing it. *shrug*

[Zeph]

Is this officially "multi-quote" day? Disagree with my quoteless post if you wish, but since I actually stated that I do agree with using them, and intend to eventually buy one, spare me the multi-quote counterpost.

Multi-quoting happen to make it easier to respond to different parts of a post, also making it a lot easier to read for everyone else. I just pointed out that I disagree with a couple of your points.

[freed0m]

"...looking a their I phone..."

It's ' iPhone '... NOT "I phone"... dayummm dude!

[vferrari]

Why should the human eye be replaced by a machine!!

Because for most people the eye is a notoriously inaccurate judge of distance.

[Hyper X Crusher]

Another advantage to a rangefinder (not GPS) is if you are not sure that the group in front of you is far enough out for you to tee off. No one likes having someone behind you roll one up (or drive through) on you. I use my rangefinder for this often every time I am out.

Just my .02

[Fourputt]

Well I use a laser, and I feel like throwing in my 2cents on this.

+1 Anyone who thinks that just having a laser or GPS is the end of human judgment clearly doesn't have a clue about the topic. ALL it gives you is the distance.... everything else is still based on judgment and experience.

And to those who say that you don't need one for your home course... I disagree with that too. I had 2 approach shots today where simply knowing that I had a middle pin and xx yards to the center of the green would have potentially left me in no man's land. With a possible variation of about 15 yards for a "middle" pin, and on one of those holes being above the hole is disaster, had I not had my laser to verify the true location of the hole I'd have been in trouble. On the 18th hole the actual hole location was 8 yards in front of the center of the green. Had I simply played for a the center, I'd have been facing a downhill breaking putt that 2 of my fellow competitors blew 10 feet past the hole on the first putt. By shooting the flag before my approach I was able to leave myself an uphill first putt that was about the same length as their 2nd putts. And all of us have been playing this course regularly for at least 20 years. There simply is no argument that can justify the OP's position on this. Everyone is entitled to his opinion, but that only makes it right for him, not for the next guy, and it certainly doesn't make it right for me.

[Greg]

Ill probably never buy any of the gps devices because they're too expensive and many of the courses I play arent even in there. The stakes in the fairway are good enough for me, I can estimate to a few yards either way from the proximity of each marker, i.e. if its a little closer to 150 than 100, its about 130 or so and an 8 iron for me for example. The only time they're off is if you're not in the fairway so just have to take a best guess. I dont have my distances down to exact yardages anyway so whether its 126 or 129 its still the same club with the same swing and just trying to hit the green, 2 putt and make a par. The technology is amazing but at $400 for gps devices or an extra fee on your phone(which I would have to purchase as I dont have a phone that supports gps) the cost is too much for me. I would rather take the money and spend more time practicing and playing.

[kris]

GPS are not 100% accurate. To the pin, center, or anything, they usually are off. I've used every major brand of GPS with the exception of Bushnell's newer stuff and they usually are off. Not by much, but they're certainly not "correct". Using a laser properly or walking off the yardage is much more "correct" IMO.

They're a lot more accurate than judging distance with the naked eye or pacing off from a yardage stake and then guessing pin location. As has been reiterated countless times here, it's quicker as well and offers no advantage while playing. All it's telling you is how far to the hole, it's on you to pick the right club, account for the wind, execute the shot, etc.

For the record, I don't own a laser GPS myself but have used them a couple times. The courses I play usually have GPS in the cart so that's what I normally use.

[ArrrrJay]

I abstain. I only don't like them because I don't have one... Anyways, if you told me to hit an 81 yard shot, I'd probably be less likely to hit the mark, then if I was just trying to make my normal swing and base it off feel.

[TheLauncher]

I truly believe with everything in me that using GPS's or lasers (and riding also) is not how the founders meant the game to be played. Getting your own yardages is a major aspect of the game IMO. It makes the game so much more challenging. You might have indecision about the yardage you got, the club you're going to use, the shot you're going to play, and so on. And I think that indecision, and the commitment to a club and shot regardless, makes golf great. It separates it from any other sport I've ever played. Your head is much more involved because there are so many variables.

Well said, this describes a lot of my feelings as well. But after all of this discussion I am all but determined to get one myself. Knowing my personality, from the sounds of it I will likely be addicted to it if it improves my game (read: scores). But that is what gives me trepidation, that I may rely on an accurate as possible yardage to have confidence in a shot. (Edit: exactly as the above poster mentioned).

[misty_mountainhop]

I have played about 40 different courses the past year or so... and while I do have a few "home courses" I still play enough "other" courses that GPS is extremely helpful... plus, just because it's my home course doesn't mean I know that X location is precisely 142 from the front and 172 to the back. The same course argument seems a litle stupid to me.

That's right, make an argument when there isn't one. I said

MOST people play only a few courses all year. Personally, if you hit it in the s**t and don't know the yardage from there, tough. We'll agree to disagree.

right... because only pros should have nice precise yardage while playing... how dumb to allow such a thing.

You are not a pro. Sorry. Just because they can employ a caddy doesn't mean you should have the same information. Don't be ridiculous.

In one breath you say we are wrong for pointing out the OP's tech clubs, whilst in the the next breath you attach the rest for the same thing. For the record, I have nice new clubs, but my game came through lots of hard work... and GPS helps my game perform to it's fullest by knowing that the creek off the tee is 265 to reach, so hit a 3-wood.

I assume you mean "attack" rather than "attach"? Anyway, if you'd paid attention I remarked that I knew I was tarring a lot of people the same way and by implication, understand that not everyone is the same. You're picking a fight where there isn't one.

As others have pointed out, used properly they speed up play. Also, thinking is still required, I simply have the CORRECT and NECESSARY information to make good on course decisions.

In my experience, they're just another excuse to play slower. In addition, many courses have used parts of their design which are made redundant by GPS etc. That's a bad thing IMO.

I think my chances of using the information on my GPS and executing a shot is MUCH higher than 5%... even on a mishit, the information helped.

Whatever.

No, actually this was right on point.

Sorry to have to disagree with you here but his bag contents has no bearing on his comments re. GPS etc.

I am sorry, but the people arguing against GPS or rangefinders seem to be completely missing the point. Golf is so much more fun when you KNOW what shot to play... I can't stand going to a new course and hitting through a dogleg on a perfect drive simply because I didn't have the yardage. I love not pacing around looking for yardages. I love knowing that the proper layup on this par 5 to avoid the bunker in the center of the fairway is 120 out, because 100 out puts me right in it... I guess the guys who HATE GPS also hate seeing people make informed decisions.

It's about drawing a line. I happen to think the use of GPS/laser rangefinders is the wrong side but there we go.

[kris]

Sorry to have to disagree with you here but his bag contents has no bearing on his comments re. GPS etc.

They wouldn't if he didn't make a big deal about playing the game as it was meant to be played.

[denver_nuggs_15]

And to those who say that you don't need one for your home course... I disagree with that too. I had 2 approach shots today where simply knowing that I had a middle pin and xx yards to the center of the green would have potentially left me in no man's land. With a possible variation of about 15 yards for a "middle" pin, and on one of those holes being above the hole is disaster, had I not had my laser to verify the true location of the hole I'd have been in trouble. On the 18th hole the actual hole location was 8 yards in front of the center of the green. Had I simply played for a the center, I'd have been facing a downhill breaking putt that 2 of my fellow competitors blew 10 feet past the hole on the first putt. By shooting the flag before my approach I was able to leave myself an uphill first putt that was about the same length as their 2nd putts. And all of us have been playing this course regularly for at least 20 years.

I'll say it again, but I think the judgement of where the flag is makes the game more challenging. I think this judgement or guess is along the lines of "How much will the wind/lie/elevation/etc. effect this shot." If you guess right, then you'll be better off than if you guess wrong...same as wind, elevation, lie, etc.

They're a lot more accurate than judging distance with the naked eye or pacing off from a yardage stake and then guessing pin location. As has been reiterated countless times here, it's quicker as well and offers no advantage while playing. All it's telling you is how far to the hole, it's on you to pick the right club, account for the wind, execute the shot, etc.

Oh yeah. I forgot that GPS's tell you exactly where the pin in. I'll bet that at my "home course", I can get more accurate yardage by walking it off and guessing the pin than you with a GPS.

[goblue107501]

I'll say it again, but I think the judgement of where the flag is makes the game more challenging. I think this judgement or guess is along the lines of "How much will the wind/lie/elevation/etc. effect this shot." If you guess right, then you'll be better off than if you guess wrong...same as wind, elevation, lie, etc.

Okay, hands up, who actually wants to make the game more challenging? We use these devices to try and make the game easier. Why in the world would I want to guess, when I don't have to?

Oh yeah. I forgot that GPS's tell you exactly where the pin in. I'll bet that at my "home course", I can get more accurate yardage by walking it off and guessing the pin than you with a GPS.

How are you going to know if your yardages are more accurate if you are guessing?

[denver_nuggs_15]

Okay, hands up, who actually wants to make the game more challenging? We use these devices to try and make the game easier. Why in the world would I want to guess, when I don't have to?

Do you not want golf to be challenging? Hands up? I'll bet that most people get 'addicted' to golf because it is such a challenge.

How are you going to know if your yardages are more accurate if you are guessing?

We'll have a laser too. Or a pin sheet. Or both. But, if we had those, neither of us would have to guess. I think guessing is part of the game...and I think the founders would want guessing and the indecision that goes with it to be a big part of the game.