The Biggest Secret? Slide Your Hips

[Zeph]

The emphasized part is a good one and something I try to harp on just a little bit too. It's not HOW FAR you go forward, it's also THE RATE at which you go forward.

You can say that again, my hips are done with the movement almost before the arms start going down. Moving the hips four inches is very little compared to the distance the arms and club move. Getting this syncronized is important.

[mostman]

Excellent thread. Seriously excellent. I've always lurked here - figured it was time to say thank you. My instructor and I have been working on my chronic spinning issues. Immediately on the way down, my right heel is off the ground and spinning out. My hips are always way ahead. If I time things correctly, I hit the ball really well. However, the miss is a REAL bad pull or even a pull draw as my hands snap through impact trying to catch up. We have tried everything to keep my right foot from spinning out and getting my hips to slide laterally, but it wasn't until I landed on this thread that I found the swing thought that works for me. It's going to take some work to get it just right - but the first couple range sessions are promising. Thanks to everyone that posted tips in here.

[StricklandPropane]

Ok, I struggled with this at first on my irons, but then it clicked. Ended up playing my best ever and had my first birdie ever. I couldn't believe how crisp everything felt.

[Stretch]

Inspired by Erik's comments on Zeph's swing thread, I went to the range today and focused on keeping the left knee flexed longer and trying to move it well outside the left ankle on the downswing. I think (still don't have camera capability here to check film against the feel) that this had my hips moving through more, because the shots with good contact were really taking off. Sadly, I was also taking rather too many big, fat gouges out of God's green Earth. I figure either that's from either holding the flex too long and crashing into the low point, or from letting the upper center go forward too.

Anyway, I'm mostly just happy to be swinging a club again without (too much) pain.

[iacas]

I figure either that's from either holding the flex

And you'd be correct.

[Tifosinumerouno]

How is this for hip slide?

[Shanks A Million]

How is this for hip slide?

It doesn't make any difference, you're not hitting a ball. Can't really judge a practice swing, as many swing faults don't manifest until you go to hit a ball. When you actually need to hit a ball into the air, you're much more likely to hang back.

[Tifosinumerouno]

You're right, I'm no where near that good of an actual golfer. That is the type of swing I want to have on a normal basis. I was hitting like that not long ago and was scoring quite well. I started getting too firm in the arms and started losing the consistency I was experiencing before. I was mostly showing myself that I could do it and trying to give yet another example of what he is talking about.

[jlh1508]

I'm sorry about how vehement I am going to be about this but YES, HE IS WRONG! This is about as bad a bit of advice you could give to a "weekend golfer" (bad for very good players as well). The motion he shows in showing what "not to do" is actually very close to the correct motion and this video could be used for that very nicely (note how he puts in tilt on his right side as he does this).

What drills are there for the person who is struggling with the bolded part?

[iacas]

What drills are there for the person who is struggling with the bolded part?

Your hips are going forward but your head is moving backwards during the downswing? That's what Dave is saying in the part you bolded, so I just want to be clear that you're doing that. If you're not pushing your hips forward you might still be dropping back with the upper center, and the fixes can be quite different.

As a general rule, for someone whose head is going to the right (for a righty) on the downswing, push the head forwards along with the hips. The hips should go more, but there should be no sensation of the head falling back to the right. Also, this drill:

[Stretch]

This is going to sound odd, but I think I made more progress working on this today than anytime I can remember, mostly because the South Easter was pumping 30 mph straight down the range while I was hitting balls. Seemed like the only way I could hit a penetrating draw was to really move the hips through with the hands well forward. Any hanging back and the ball would just balloon into the teeth of the wind. Got a very distinct feeling on the couple I caught just right -- think that's going to be a real help going forward (no pun intended).

[jlh1508]

Your hips are going forward but your head is moving backwards during the downswing? That's what Dave is saying in the part you bolded, so I just want to be clear that you're doing that. If you're not pushing your hips forward you might still be dropping back with the upper center, and the fixes can be quite different.

I need to make another swing video before I am 100% sure, but yes I think that is the cause of my duck hooks for the last 3 or 4 rounds

[iacas]

I need to make another swing video before I am 100% sure, but yes I think that is the cause of my duck hooks for the last 3 or 4 rounds

Good. You'll want the feeling perhaps of driving the tailbone, right pocket - something around waist or hip level - past your left ear, right ear, nose, sternum, or something on your head or near your upper center.

The bad move would be to feel your right side collapsing or your head moving behind anything. You could actually work on the drill with the corner of the wall (or a beam) on BOTH sides of your head - on the left side to make sure you feel the hips pushing forward and on the right side to make sure your head isn't falling backwards. Good luck and report back, with video if possible (and if you post it in a "My Swing" thread, PM it to me to remind me if I don't respond quickly).

[tm22721]

Would I benefit from sliding my hips in a S&T; swing ?

[iacas]

Would I benefit from sliding my hips in a S&T; swing ?

Everyone benefits from sliding their hips (versus not sliding them at all), unless they want to hit weak pull cuts.

[Stretch]

This is going to sound odd, but I think I made more progress working on this today than anytime I can remember, mostly because the South Easter was pumping 30 mph straight down the range while I was hitting balls. Seemed like the only way I could hit a penetrating draw was to really move the hips through with the hands well forward. Any hanging back and the ball would just balloon into the teeth of the wind. Got a very distinct feeling on the couple I caught just right -- think that's going to be a real help going forward (no pun intended).

My subconscious was processing this all of last night. I know because I actually dreamed about hitting 6 irons at the range. Is that sad?

Anyway, when I woke up it was with the thought that the other thing I was doing differently yesterday was increasing my knee flex slightly at setup. Because of the strong wind, I was squatting down a bit to try and get more stable and the resulting slight "toe out" at the knees really seemed to help to promote the lateral shifting of the hips. Does that make any sense?

[iacas]

Anyway, when I woke up it was with the thought that the other thing I was doing differently yesterday was increasing my knee flex slightly at setup. Because of the strong wind, I was squatting down a bit to try and get more stable and the resulting slight "toe out" at the knees really seemed to help to promote the lateral shifting of the hips. Does that make any sense?

Yes, that's part of the reason a slight toe-out stance is favored by many - you can get more lateral motion.

The most lateral motion you could get would be to have your left foot (and knee) pointed at the target. You could flex flex flex really far "forward" and get your hips well past your left foot (until you fell over). If your left foot was pointed as far away from the target as you could (foot turned inwards), then you couldn't slide much at all (without dislocating your knee, anyway).

[Chas]

I think I get a fair bit of lateral motion (but don't have video to prove it mind you ....), but but but, I'm almost certain that I don't hold my head and upper body back through the contact zone properly the way that fellow demonstrated in the video clip (where he kept his head behind a vertical wooden post during a mock swing - Erik's post #244). That is a very powerful visual for me. I like the way he pointed out that failing to do this, i.e. letting your upper body move forward towards the target instead of holding it back even into the arm extension post-contact, is a major power drain. Gots to keep that upper body pivot point from drifting forward.

I used to do the right thing (after many many years of hard labor) with my topspin backhand passing shot in tennis (major weight shift forward but holding back the head and chest, and ending with a rising body position), which is where the power came from in that stroke e.g. to get past the would-be volleyer standing at the net. I need to get the same concept going in golf I guess.

Thanks for that bit of video. Now I have to find me a nice post or doorjam to practice with .... mind you, if my wife seems me she'll think I've finally completely lost it. Oh well, a small price to pay ....