The Biggest Secret? Slide Your Hips

[ayan]

The slide and rotation both happen almost simultaneously.  The hips bump forward a few inches and the hips start to rotate open.  This helps get your weight forward and start the proper sequencing in the downswing to provide that "effortless power" we all want.

I believe there are an infinite number of ways in which to do a great swing.  Unfortunately, most of the descriptions I've read/heard of the transition have been -- to me -- unclear, contradictory, etc., and ultimately didn't help much  Since this thread is about the "sliding of the hips," I'll stick to the part of the transition that has to do with that.  I would inevitably feel kind of stuck if, after being coiled up at the end of the back swing, I just slid my hips parallel to the target line.  By stuck I mean my arms would be left behind, and I would not have a lot of rotation left since I had already slid and started to rotate the hips.  This condition has been described as the "ballerina move" by some, and I think it suits it to a T.  I knew I wanted to keep the shoulders closed, shallow out the shaft, transfer the weight, and later I'd heard one also needed to get the arms to move left across the chest, etc.  A lot of thoughts, and it was virtually impossible to pull it all together, let alone with any consistency.  I even saw some videos on youtube, from people that I think have some great information out there, that confused me even more when they talked about sliding the hips while pushing the rear more towards 10 or 11 o'clock, with 12 o'clock being the direction of the target.

For anyone that resonates with being frustrated about what I've described above, I offer something that helped me: while sliding the hips in the general direction of the target, think about increasing the flex in your left knee (if you play right handed golf) and having the push (off the right leg) be directed "right of the target."  This goes hand in hand with swinging more "towards the right" and hitting a draw.  Probably the wrong "thought" for someone who comes too much from the inside already, but I think it'd be something worth considering for anyone with a tendency to come over the top.  In my case, it turned out to be a thought that changed my outlook on basically the entire swing.  To me, this move helps keep the hips from rotating prematurely, keeps the shoulders closed, and shallows out the club nicely without requiring the arms to do anything active... and it doesn't promote the ballerina move as much as the lateral slide.

Cheers,

Gil

[porc]

@iacas

At the moment I am pushing my golf shots (straight to the right of were I aim). According to ball flight laws this means my club face is open to the target and my path is alligned with my clubface.

The instructor of the video below suggests that it might be because I am sliding my hips too much. Is it true that sliding without enough rotation of the hips might cause a push?

What do you think of the video below?

[iacas]

@iacas

At the moment I am pushing my golf shots (straight to the right of were I aim). According to ball flight laws this means my club face is open to the target and my path is alligned with my clubface.

The instructor of the video below suggests that it might be because I am sliding my hips too much. Is it true that sliding without enough rotation of the hips might cause a push?

What do you think of the video below?

I think it's pretty bad.

The golf club is "square" he says? Square to what? The path? Okay, so?

I think a few things are far more likely:

• I don't remember the last time I saw a mid- to high-handicapper who slid forward too far for too long.
• I think if you slide forward closed for too long you're more likely to hit it left as the overtaking rate is high. The release isn't "held off" - the opposite is true more often.

I think this guy's misunderstanding is predicated upon his weak understanding of the Ball Flight Laws and biomechanics.

We often work with better players on not getting open quite as much as they should, but rarely is it a mid- to higher-handicapper player.

[porc]

If its not the sliding hip, what are the most common reasons for a push shot in your opinion?

Thanks for the feedback.

At the moment I am either pushing or hooking the ball.

[iacas]

If its not the sliding hip, what are the most common reasons for a push shot in your opinion?

Not really the topic for the thread, unfortunately.

The clubface is pointing right with a path that matches. Could be a lot of reasons for it.

[porc]

@iacas

I just found butch harmon talking about spinning out (opening up) with the hips (i.e. rotating to quickly). He says its not the slide action thats the fault but rather spinning out to quickly. Regarding hip action and the push shot, do you think this is accurate?

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2010-05/fast-fixes-butch-harmon-push

The big push comes from spinning the lower body open too quickly on the downswing. When the hips and knees turn aggressively like this ( above, left ), the club drops behind the body and approaches the ball too much from the inside. The club never catches up and never has a chance to release, so the face stays open and the ball shoots to the right.

The best way to fix a push is to make the opposite move: Don't use your lower body as much, and swing your arms past your chest through impact ( above, right ). First, set up in a closed stance, which makes it harder for your lower body to rotate open. Then, focus on letting your arms extend and release past you.

Some players think a push comes from shifting too far toward the target, but this spin-out move is the real cause. When you spin open, your right shoulder tilts down and the club gets stuck to the inside . From there, the ball can only go right. So close your stance, and feel your arms swing past you.

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So to summarize: If anything rotating too much causes a push shot not sliding too much. Is this accurate?

[Vinsk]

I'm a bit cynical when it comes to "slotting the club" and all the nonsense I read about "oh it's just gravity...my arms are just along for the ride." Nonsense. Perhaps these people "feel" that way...but it ain't real. Remember when Ace Ventura (Jim Carey pet detective when nature calls) gets hit by the numbing darts? He's swinging his torso with no active/deliberate movement of his arms. That's not at all what happens in a golf swing. If it did...it would be a miracle to actually hit the ball and minimal distance would occur. It's hard to teach the proper "feel" to anyone. At the top of the backswing...bumping the hip or laterally moving the hips toward the target does not automatically set the club to any one position. A proper move of the forward hip can lead to an over the top, an out to to in or an in to out swing. I wish there was a good explanation to really help with the correct combination of hip movement and what the arms should do. It's something I seem to struggle with. I dunno ...just a little frustrating.

[porc]

I'm a bit cynical when it comes to "slotting the club" and all the nonsense I read about "oh it's just gravity...my arms are just along for the ride." Nonsense. Perhaps these people "feel" that way...but it ain't real. Remember when Ace Ventura (Jim Carey pet detective when nature calls) gets hit by the numbing darts? He's swinging his torso with no active/deliberate movement of his arms. That's not at all what happens in a golf swing. If it did...it would be a miracle to actually hit the ball and minimal distance would occur. It's hard to teach the proper "feel" to anyone. At the top of the backswing...bumping the hip or laterally moving the hips toward the target does not automatically set the club to any one position. A proper move of the forward hip can lead to an over the top, an out to to in or an in to out swing. I wish there was a good explanation to really help with the correct combination of hip movement and what the arms should do. It's something I seem to struggle with. I dunno ...just a little frustrating.

[Vinsk]

Yeah....I watch Crossfield...really like him. Herman Williams too. I know I usually get forward pretty well as I end up facing the target with all my weight on my forward foot and I usually take a real nice divot with a solid hit. But I fear I may be coming a bit out to in which is a "cheat" to hit it solidly as Erik mentioned in the post about the A Swing.

[iacas]

So to summarize: If anything rotating too much causes a push shot not sliding too much. Is this accurate?

Can I just say "no" and move on?

There are to many different causes for too many different golfers/swings to say "X and Y cause all pushes."

[mvmac]

I think a few things are far more likely:

I don't remember the last time I saw a mid- to high-handicapper who slid forward too far for too long.

I think if you slide forward closed for too long you're more likely to hit it left as the overtaking rate is high. The release isn't "held off" - the opposite is true more often.

Agree 100%.

@porc , start a swing thread dude. Easier for us to help you that way than to answer "this instructor says this" type of questions.

[porc]

@iacas @mvmac

Thats a good idea. I will do a swing video soon.

However, just this one question regarding hip action. In the original post iacas pointed out that hips of pros are only slightly open to the target line at impact:

1) Pros hips are slightly open to the target line at impact, but only slightly. Amateurs tend to be either quite a bit open at impact or square to the line because they've pushed their butts toward the golf ball and are straightening up.

In this video, he suggests that the hips of pros are quite a bit open. So what is it? Slighly or quite a bit? How much turn before impact?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=342&v;=iD0b6wDS_WE

[iacas]

In this video, he suggests that the hips of pros are quite a bit open. So what is it? Slighly or quite a bit? How much turn before impact?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=342&v;=iD0b6wDS_WE

The average PGA Tour player is about 40° open to the target line at impact with their hips (15-20° with their torso). They're rotating the entire downswing (from about 30-40° closed at the top).

[porc]

The average PGA Tour player is about 40° open to the target line at impact with their hips (15-20° with their torso). They're rotating the entire downswing (from about 30-40° closed at the top).

Thanks for the reply. So you get to the 40 degrees open at impact via a continuous rotation and shift from the top, or is it a shift first and then a rotation? I might be overthinking this :D.

Also at impact how much can the right foot lift off the ground to enable hip turn?

[saevel25]

Thanks for the reply. So you get to the 40 degrees open at impact via a continuous rotation and shift from the top, or is it a shift first and then a rotation? I might be overthinking this :D.

Also at impact how much can the right foot lift off the ground to enable hip turn?

First part, This . You are no really shooting for a number here. It all has to mesh with your swing. Obviously having them open is better, but I wouldn't be concerned with trying to hit a number. If you end up with 20 degrees and you hit very solid shots. Lets say an extra 20 degrees isn't going to help you out then don't worry about it.

2nd question, depends on the golfer. Not really important if you have your weight forward at impact. At some point that back foot has to come off the ground because the weight is forward and the hips are turning. I would say the back foot coming off the ground is more of a result from the hip turn then enabling the hip turn.

[HawkNballs]

Golf is hard.

If its not the sliding hip, what are the most common reasons for a push shot in your opinion?

Thanks for the feedback.

At the moment I am either pushing or hooking the ball.

I used to have the push/hook problem.  It was a push, unless I flipped my hands to save the shot... then a hook.  It was from years of teachers preaching that over the top was an evil move.  So I learned to do the opposite.  I would swing too far inside out.

I obviously have never seen your swing, but my divots used to point to the right.  I now have a "feeling" of swinging slightly left.  It worked for me, but there are different reasons for a push.  Try it at the range.

[HawkNballs]

You're going to go crazy if you start thinking about exactly how many degrees to open your hips!  Maybe your local golf store sells a belt with a protractor on it.  ;)

[chspeed]

You're going to go crazy if you start thinking about exactly how many degrees to open your hips!  Maybe your local golf store sells a belt with a protractor on it.  ;)

A belt with a protractor, ha ha! Wait, I'm sure someone already thought of that. Lo and behold. The Hip Trax Core Laser.