The Biggest Secret? Slide Your Hips

[iacas]

You are running away (far early) from those pictures I posted.

I'm sorry, but no, that's just not accurate.

I asked you to describe what you saw in three pictures (then added an "early Hogan" photo, making it three players and four photos). I've asked you this twice now.

If anyone has "run away" from anything, I think you're the one ducking the questions.

I am showing you that Ben Hogan has 2 different moves in early transition.

We are not talking about the "early transition." We're talking about the entire downswing. Stop playing games.

The difference between your and my point is in the early transition (imo). I am saying there's a squatting and not a straight move forward/bump to the left. That's why my pictures stop very early. I accepted your challenge and it's me that has to prove something to you, not the way around.

I disagree with the bold entirely. We have never talked about anything but the entire downswing . I have also never said there's not whatever it is you're referring to as a "squat." I've even asked people to feel like they "squat" in transition (it helps some of them keep their left knee flexed longer).

You have not accepted my challenge - I asked you to tell me what you saw in three (or four) photos, which included the hips sliding forward quite a bit - something you've denied they do.

It is becoming abundantly clear that not only are you not arguing your original point anymore, but what your arguing is OT for this thread. This is the "SLIDE Your Hips" thread. It's not the "What was Ben Hogan's Transition Move?" thread. It's irrelevant what Hogan's (or Snead's, or Tiger's, Jack's, etc.) transition move is, the fact is they ALL have a lateral hip movement in their downswings.

Bingo.

You're at the end of the rope we've given you, @32quattro . Stick to the topic, please.

[billchao]

I just noticed that I do slide my hips first once I started using my legs and hips to initiate my swing.

Yea, that's why I said feel is unique to each individual. I still slide my hips, despite feeling my downswing is "all arms". Telling you to swing with just your arms would be just as bad in your swing as telling me to slide my hips. What matters is that the hips are actually sliding (and properly).

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/29616/the-biggest-secret-slide-your-hips/780_30#post_1155230"] I just noticed that I do slide my hips first once I started using my legs and hips to initiate my swing.[/QUOTE] Yea, that's why I said feel is unique to each individual. I still slide my hips, despite feeling my downswing is "all arms". Telling you to swing with just your arms would be just as bad in your swing as telling me to slide my hips. What matters is that the hips are actually sliding (and properly).

Yeah, still working on the "properly" part. . . It slides naturally, just the sequencing (timing) part is everything. I have a feeling it's going to take tens of thousands of balls to even get a glimpse of "properly".

[32quattro]

@iacas You removed the pictures again Are you scare of something ? I told you on a PM if you don't want to talk in the forum I just send you an email. Put those pictures back

[Vinsk]

The difference between your and my point is in the early transition (imo). I am saying there's a squatting and not a straight move forward/bump to the left. Right. And that is OT. You stated there is no bump, slide at all. Your doll demonstration was an attempt to show there is no forward movement of the pelvis as well as your Sam Snead pics where you stated it was just the camera angle and that his hip had not moved toward the target. You also stated you have not seen a hip slide in any good players. I'm not sure where you got the "the first move is a squat...not a deliberate slide" from originally arguing there is no slide at all. In all good players there is a lateral movement towards the target. I believe that point is no longer up for debate. But I'd very much like to hear (read) what your "feel" is on this move as I often struggle with it.

[32quattro]

The difference between your and my point is in the early transition (imo). I am saying there's a squatting and not a straight move forward/bump to the left.

Right. And that is OT.

No is not OT because the thread is SLIDE your hips and I am showing that there is not a deliberate slide forward but is a knee forward around with hips rotating on better ball strikers.

[saevel25]

Q. Why it doesn't move ?

The difference between your and my point is in the early transition (imo). I am saying there's a  squatting and not a straight move forward/bump to the left. That's why my pictures stop very early. I accepted your challenge and it's me that has to prove something to you, not the way around.

As for those Hogan pics. You are looking at a very small time frame. The downswing for a PGA Tour player is a fraction of a second. Look at Rory McIlroy, his downswing only takes 0.240 seconds. You put up pictures of Hogan when his arms do not even move down yet.

You are talking maybe milliseconds of time passed. Come on man, move on already. It doesn't matter what happens in the first 0.005 seconds of the downswing. What matters is that this thread is about sliding the hips forward. We've put up images that clearly define what we are talking about and prove that we are talking about what really happens in the golf swing.

Stop with your feeble attempts already.

@iacas You removed the pictures again Are you scare of something ? I told you on a PM if you don't want to talk in the forum I just send you an email. Put those pictures back

The pictures were put in a spoiler link, so that they do not take up  a lot of space. Go back to your post and look for the link that says, "pics". Click on it, your pictures will show up. They were never taken down.

No is not OT because the thread is SLIDE your hips and I am showing that there is not a deliberate slide forward but is a knee forward around with hips rotating on better ball strikers.

We've shown you many pictures where you are wrong. Maybe the knee does initiate the downswing in some golfers. I've seen video were the whole torso starts to slide forward (Adam Scott). I've seen some where the knee will initiate the swing. In the end the common factor for both is that the hips slide forward.

Your attempt to look at the first few milliseconds of Hogan's swing doesn't support anything at all. Other than you are grasping at straws.

[32quattro]

The pictures were put in a spoiler link, so that they do not take up  a lot of space. Go back to your post and look for the link that says, "pics". Click on it, your pictures will show up. They were never taken down.

We've shown you many pictures where you are wrong. Maybe the knee does initiate the downswing in some golfers. I've seen video were the whole torso starts to slide forward (Adam Scott). I've seen some where the knee will initiate the swing. In the end the common factor for both is that the hips slide forward.

Your attempt to look at the first few milliseconds of Hogan's swing doesn't support anything at all. Other than you are grasping at straws.

Look , I m not stupid. There are roulette pictures posted not by me on on the previous page. Mine are in a spoiler. It took a millisecond for iacas to do so. If you want to be fair you leave them on. I am not making any money out of it and I am not in the business at all. Are we saying the same things ?, ok, everyone is happy than to agree that some players are squatting than turning left knee forward/left without deliberately bumping the hips left as their first move first, to enhance the GFR. Are out there several elite players bumping left and turning, thus resulting in less explosive motions ? (still using GFR , but less anyway). Yes, Luke Donald and other hundreds. Are out there several elite players doing what I studied ? Yes, usually are the better strikers and longer and straighter. In the past Sam Snead is the epitome of them. Far superior on distance and accuracy than several at his time. Ben Hogan before injury was doing it.

Is it easy to explain this to beginners players ?

No. It is not necessary that a beginner or a casual golfer use this move in the same way it is pointless to me to show iacas the +20 pictures I prepared 2 days ago. I just wanted to go step by step, as a challenge, proving me wrong on every single picture I was presenting (and in topic) regarding the actively or not sliding.Then iacas said "who cares" if is intentionally or not sliding, than he removed the post saying we start fresh. Now he is back on OT, ropes , whatever

If I have to put one pic on  from front view I could tell you that during the mid backswing the right hip move forward as well (in space like a front view). Did in this case you will be saying " see he slide forward in the backswing" "so you are wrong" "rope is short" an so on ?

I personally participated to a project here in Perth as an average ball striker that was intended as an aid to young advanced ball strikers turning professional.I was obviously the "what average Joe is doing" kind of figure.

Those data and numbers showed me what I needed and from there I became interested on hips, because I used to do the bump and slide.

Gandolfini would say: Capisce ?

[iacas]

No is not OT because the thread is SLIDE your hips and I am showing that there is not a deliberate slide forward but is a knee forward around with hips rotating on better ball strikers.

It is off topic. You're talking about 1/10th of the downswing, or the transition - I'm talking about the downswing. All of it. The whole thing.

@iacas You removed the pictures again Are you scare of something ? I told you on a PM if you don't want to talk in the forum I just send you an email. Put those pictures back

No, I didn't. They're in a spoiler tag. They're right there. Scared? C'mon. You're still the one who has yet to answer the question I asked you several posts ago, and then again, and then again.

I put them in a spoiler tag (while leaving some others out, including some of your photos - you'll also note that I put my own photos in a spoiler tag earlier in the thread) because some of them get too long, and if they're also marginally or wholly off topic, I'm more likely to do so.

There are roulette pictures posted not by me on on the previous page. Mine are in a spoiler. It took a millisecond for iacas to do so. If you want to be fair you leave them on. I am not making any money out of it and I am not in the business at all. Are we saying the same things ?, ok, everyone is happy than to agree that some players are squatting than turning left knee forward/left without deliberately bumping the hips left as their first move first, to enhance the GFR. Are out there several elite players bumping left and turning, thus resulting in less explosive motions ? (still using GFR , but less anyway). Yes, Luke Donald and other hundreds. Are out there several elite players doing what I studied ? Yes, usually are the better strikers and longer and straighter. In the past Sam Snead is the epitome of them. Far superior on distance and accuracy than several at his time. Ben Hogan before injury was doing it.

This is a whole bunch of text with little to say. You're just using your own words without having defined them, like "squatting," and again - we do not care about the transition. This thread is about the entire downswing .

Sam Snead slid his hips forward. Ben Hogan slid his hips forward. Tiger Woods slides his hips forward. This thread is about helping regular golfers realize that they need to slide their hips forward.

No. It is not necessary that a beginner or a casual golfer use this move in the same way it is pointless to me to show iacas the +20 pictures I prepared 2 days ago. I just wanted to go step by step, as a challenge, proving me wrong on every single picture I was presenting (and in topic) regarding the actively or not sliding.Then iacas said "who cares" if is intentionally or not sliding, than he removed the post saying we start fresh. Now he is back on OT, ropes , whatever

That's a pretty lame characterization of what's happened. I've been consistent in saying what's on topic or not. I extended you a little rope, you used all of it and then some, and I reeled you back in with a question you've yet to answer.

If I have to put one pic on  from front view I could tell you that during the mid backswing the right hip move forward as well (in space like a front view). Did in this case you will be saying " see he slide forward in the backswing" "so you are wrong" "rope is short" an so on ?

I personally participated to a project here in Perth as an average ball striker that was intended as an aid to young advanced ball strikers turning professional.I was obviously the "what average Joe is doing" kind of figure.

Those data and numbers showed me what I needed and from there I became interested on hips, because I used to do the bump and slide.

I realize that English is not your native language, but at this point, I find myself not wanting to put forth the effort to try to figure out what you're saying.

You've yet to answer my basic questions. You've not respond to some basic statements like my bullet lists of three items that I say happen. You've talked about what happens in the tiny transition time frame when that's clearly not the topic here (the entire downswing is).

You're still a ten handicap. Maybe you're 70 and that's great. Maybe your feels aren't real. Maybe you already slid your hips forward far enough and had to focus mostly on turning. I don't know.

[32quattro]

You're still a ten handicap. Maybe you're 70 and that's great. Maybe your feels aren't real. Maybe you already slid your hips forward far enough and had to focus mostly on turning. I don't know.

And you are not in the PRO Tour or an elite player anymore, correct me if I am wrong. If I am a ten handicap is not pertinent with knowledge. I have a disability and my 10 handicap is obtained and maintained in a challenging golf course. Minimum 2 bunkers every green and with strong winds (average 12 mph year around). I told you at the beginning of our conversation that to me wasn't worth the effort. Newton's Laws and GFR are not average Joe staff.

But I challenge you in a proper thread (choose you which) to show me 2 pictures of your swing in a golf course hitting a proper ball, DTL at setup and impact. I am going now to play and I take the camera with me.

Q. My avatar (?) My car is black

[iacas]

And you are not in the PRO Tour or an elite player anymore, correct me if I am wrong.

Way to ignore 90% of the commentary, the stuff that's on topic. I'm a golf instructor. One of the best.

But I challenge you in a proper thread (choose you which) to show me 2 pictures of your swing in a golf course hitting a proper ball, DTL at setup and impact. I am going now to play and I take the camera with me.

You can find those pretty easily. Not sure what the point of looking at those are. Ben Hogan and Snead hit the ball better than I do. Spoiler alert: my hips slide forward too.

Q. My avatar (?) My car is black

So change it. The welcome PM you get says you'll be assigned an avatar if you don't choose one inside of about 15 posts. You got to nearly 30.

Patience is wearing thin now @32quattro . I've put a lot of time into this, and you're shifting goalposts, ignoring direct questions asked of you, changing your mind about whether pros slide their hips or not, and ignoring the meat of posts to respond to ask basic tech support questions.

[isukgolf]

Kind of sorry @32quattro took over thread ... but call it what you want ... I call it sliding my hips, and sliding my hips has made a big difference in the way I hot these days ...

[Lihu]

Back on topic, wouldn't it prove the topic's point if we make a swing with a rolling chair against the lead hip then make a normal swing? If you don't slide your hips the chair won't move. If you do the chair will slide away from you towards the target. Seems like a simple test? The other thing I wonder is how the GFR being discussing are actually produced? It's likely caused by mass transfer of the hips sliding forward? It's the effect of the leg and hip motion than the source, right?

[iacas]

Back on topic, wouldn't it prove the topic's point if we make a swing with a rolling chair against the lead hip then make a normal swing? If you don't slide your hips the chair won't move. If you do the chair will slide away from you towards the target.

Already a bunch of proof out there @Lihu . And this thread isn't about GRF.

[mvmac]

But I challenge you in a proper thread (choose you which) to show me 2 pictures of your swing in a golf course hitting a proper ball, DTL at setup and impact. I am going now to play and I take the camera with me.

Why the hell does that matter? We're not talking about just Erik's swing or Hogan's swing, we're talking about ALL good golf swings, in which the HIPS SLIDE FORWARD. Again this is not an opinion, these things have been measured.

Kind of sorry @32quattro took over thread ... but call it what you want ... I call it sliding my hips, and sliding my hips has made a big difference in the way I hot these days ...

It is unfortunate, asking questions and disagreement are fine but after a while you have to make a valid case, which @32quattro hasn't done and he continues to change his original argument. First the hips didn't slide forward, then it didn't happen early in transition and now it's just the left knee.

[Ernest Jones]

No is not OT because the thread is SLIDE your hips and I am showing that there is not a deliberate slide forward but is a knee forward around with hips rotating on better ball strikers.

Who said anything about deliberate? You're just moving the goalposts now. I guess you didn't look very closely at my post of the roulette wheel, shame, it contains the secret . ;-)

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 32quattro

But I challenge you in a proper thread (choose you which) to show me 2 pictures of your swing in a golf course hitting a proper ball, DTL at setup and impact. I am going now to play and I take the camera with me.

Why the hell does that matter? We're not talking about just Erik's swing or Hogan's swing, we're talking about ALL good golf swings, in which the HIPS SLIDE FORWARD. Again this is not an opinion, these things have been measured.

@32quattro one of the most patient individuals I've ever known, considering I know some Buddist monks. For you to get his feathers ruffled takes serious effort. Please spend some time thinking about what was stated in this thread. If it helps, I also have language/communications issues, and it could be a simple matter of miscommunication?

I'll probably get banned or penalty box for this. . .but on the lighter side, I've never seen @mvmac lose his cool before .

[Crazycanuck44]

This is a major derailment for this thread....