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Slow Play


Dr_Fu_Manchu
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I must say, all US golfers should not play in South Africa if you are looking for a quick round. An average round here in SA takes about 5 hours. Very often its closer to 5,5 hours.

An SA tradition is to have a breakfast/lunch at half way (taking about 15-20 min). Apparently this is not the norm overseas.
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I must say, all US golfers should not play in South Africa if you are looking for a quick round. An average round here in SA takes about 5 hours. Very often its closer to 5,5 hours.

This was once common on private country club courses. I don't know if it still is or not as I don't play in such places. But on the courses I play, if you lose your place on the course it might 2 or 3 hours before you find a gap to get back in. I'm a starter and I've had the occasional rare group that for some reason thinks that they can stop at the turn for as long as they like, then just get right back out on the back 9. I've had to apprise them of the realities of public golf on one of the busiest courses in the state. I will do what I can to help them out, but I can guarantee nothing. I'll slide them back in if I see a gap between 2 groups, but that just depends on the flow.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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I must say, all US golfers should not play in South Africa if you are looking for a quick round. An average round here in SA takes about 5 hours. Very often its closer to 5,5 hours.

I have business trips in Korea and play golf there whenever I can. And they too stop after 9 to eat lunch. But their caddies (with carts, of course) push groups along so the round gets done within 4 to 4-1/2 hours.

By the way, caddies in Korea are all women (mostly young, but not always). Some clubs have only attractive young ladies as caddies, but that's another story.

Don

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Many courses print this admonition on their scorecards: "Your position on the course is immediately behind the group in front...not immediately in front of the group behind." That bugs me. If my group is routinely walking away from our second shots before the group behind gets to the tee, or leaving the green before the group behind is ready to hit on, I say our position is just fine.

I think it's excellent advice. Judging your pace by your distance ahead of the group behind will lead to the whole course playing at the speed of the slowest group out there. Trying your best to keep up with the group ahead will keep the overall pace faster. Plus, just being ahead of the group behind can be misleading---they may be slowing down to avoid breathing down your necks, and it may well be that if you speed up a bit they'll do the same.

However, whether it's aimed at you for a particular round depends on the situation. If the course is not full, then as long as you hold your position relative to the group ahead you're fine. If you can make up some ground to shorten the gap, I still think you should because this will provide insurance should you encounter a delay, but if it's wide open, nobody is going to care.
An SA tradition is to have a breakfast/lunch at half way (taking about 15-20 min). Apparently this is not the norm overseas.

I can see this being pleasant, if you're in a position to not mind spending a whole day playing golf. Like much of the pace issue, it falls into a "cultural" question of what timetable is acceptable. If you've browsed the slow play threads before, you'll know that even within the US there are fairly wide differences of opinion as to what constitutes a reasonable pace.

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I can see this being pleasant, if you're in a position to not mind spending a whole day playing golf. Like much of the pace issue, it falls into a "cultural" question of what timetable is acceptable. If you've browsed the slow play threads before, you'll know that even within the US there are fairly wide differences of opinion as to what constitutes a reasonable pace.

It is quite pleasant, and doesn't really cause any problems since everybody does the same thing. The club halfway houses are geared to it, the food is out in 5 minutes and most will have a sign saying something like "Break Limited To Quarter Of An Hour Please." Also, cart girls are sadly unknown on South African courses, so if you feel like some swing oil that's your only shot until the 19th.

To get back on topic, I have not had any problems with slow play here in Cape Town. In the summer, we do get whole bus loads of European golf tourists descending en masse, but usually the course will block off the entire morning (or afternoon) just for that group, so you're not going to get caught in it.

Stretch.

"In the process of trial and error, our failed attempts are meant to destroy arrogance and provoke humility." -- Master Jin Kwon

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Many courses print this admonition on their scorecards: "Your position on the course is immediately behind the group in front...not immediately in front of the group behind." That bugs me. If my group is routinely walking away from our second shots before the group behind gets to the tee, or leaving the green before the group behind is ready to hit on, I say our position is just fine.

I think it's excellent advice. Judging your pace by your distance ahead of the group behind will lead to the whole course playing at the speed of the slowest group out there. Trying your best to keep up with the group ahead will keep the overall pace faster. Plus, just being ahead of the group behind can be misleading---they may be slowing down to avoid breathing down your necks, and it may well be that if you speed up a bit they'll do the same.

Yeah. Gauging your pace by the group behind you can quickly lead to 6 hour rounds. Totally bass ackwards. You set your pace to the group you are following. Nothing else makes any sense at all. Always look ahead and if you're starting to lose ground on the group in front, then it's time to catch up. If you are keeping pace with the guys in front of you, then you should never even have to look back.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Yeah. Gauging your pace by the group behind you can quickly lead to 6 hour rounds. Totally bass ackwards. You set your pace to the group you are following. Nothing else makes any sense at all. Always look ahead and if you're starting to lose ground on the group in front, then it's time to catch up. If you are keeping pace with the guys in front of you, then you should never even have to look back.

The course standard / clock should be the guide. If the guys in front of my group are all rabbits who prefer to judge their skill level by average time rather than average score, why do we need to run to keep up? If we're maintaining the pace indicated on the card, and the group behind is not waiting on us, then we're fine. No matter how fast your group is, there will always be a group that wants to play faster. That's why they should try to get the earliest tee time possible and if they can't get one of the rabbit times, then tough luck.

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The course standard / clock should be the guide. If the guys in front of my group are all rabbits who prefer to judge their skill level by average time rather than average score, why do we need to run to keep up? If we're maintaining the pace indicated on the card, and the group behind is not waiting on us, then we're fine. No matter how fast your group is, there will always be a group that wants to play faster. That's why they should try to get the earliest tee time possible and if they can't get one of the rabbit times, then tough luck.

You show me the typical golfer who can tell by the time where he should be on the course and I'll show you the rarest bird on the planet. Most players couldn't even tell you how long it's supposed to take to play the first 2 holes, much less where they should be after 2 hours and 40 minutes. On my home course the time posted for four players to play 18 holes is 4:20. That works out to about 14.4 minutes per hole on average - a bit less for the par 3 holes and a bit more for the par 5's. I know from experience that the par 4 first hole can be finished in 10 minutes by players who understand how to maintain a good pace, so 14½ minutes seems more than generous. Assuming no problems like ball searches, etc. that means that 3 hours would be their time for 18 holes. It's unrealistic to expect a group to play the entire course at an optimum pace, but it still seems very reasonable that they could play in 4 hours without being rushed.

So I really don't get why we have a lot of experienced fourballs who can't seem to get around in under 4½ hours???? That is 1.5 hours longer than optimum, and more than half a minute longer per hole than the shop expects them to play, which seems ridiculous to me. Unlike some here who have somehow tagged specific causes, I can't do so. Despite the fact that I've been working as a starter for 4 years now, I can't nail it down so flippantly. Part of my job is recording the turn times for every group coming off the 9th green, and there is no way to nail down any one cause. I see riders who are slow and walkers who are slow in equal numbers. I see players of all ages, all skill levels, both genders, any of whom can be either faster or slower than the policy requests. There is nothing that slow players have in common except that they can't seem to keep up with the people in front of them - they are just slow players. Once you get one such group in the flow you have a problem. Add another one 4 or 5 groups behind them, and another one a bit later, now you have the whole course making the turn in 2:15 - 2:30 and you have a situation. It's for this reason that our course assistants are encouraged to devote their greatest attention to the front 9, because if you lose control in the first 9 holes, what happens on the back is irrelevant. Sit in my chair for a while and you won't find it so easy to peg any one cause, because there is no such thing.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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You show me the typical golfer who can tell by the time where he should be on the course and I'll show you the rarest bird on the planet. Most players couldn't even tell you how long it's supposed to take to play the first 2 holes, much less where they should be after 2 hours and 40 minutes. On my home course the time posted for four players to play 18 holes is 4:20. That works out to about 14.4 minutes per hole on average - a bit less for the par 3 holes and a bit more for the par 5's. I know from experience that the par 4 first hole can be finished in 10 minutes by players who understand how to maintain a good pace, so 14½ minutes seems more than generous. Assuming no problems like ball searches, etc. that means that 3 hours would be their time for 18 holes. It's unrealistic to expect a group to play the entire course at an optimum pace, but it still seems very reasonable that they could play in 4 hours without being rushed.

Was this a rebuttal to my post? Your chair sounds like the worst seat in the house.

People are slow because people are slow. Faster players tend to think two steps ahead. They try to keep the ball in play and either drop another ball in the area (or hit a provisional) when they fail. They make a note of the shortest distance between they flagstick and the next teebox and set their bag somewhere on that line. They play ready golf without making their partners feel rushed. They're fit enough to keep up a decent pace for 4 hours (a lot of slow people simply aren't and can't keep up). They eat and drink enough to keep a decent mental state and don't need to stop and chat with the cart girl every time she passes by. They don't pair up the power fade guy and the sweeping draw guy in the same cart, they bring enough balls that they don't have to ball hawk 6 holes into the round. They have an idea what club they need based on experience and bracket that club just in case (e.g. bring a 5, 6, and 7 iron for 6 iron yardage, or bring a SW, 8-iron, and putter for a ball that just rolled off the back of the green), and they have the courage to encourage the rest of the group to either pick up the pace or let a group play through. BTW - both letting a group play through, and playing through are learned skills that if done inefficiently can cause even more of a backup.

Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.

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Was this a rebuttal to my post? Your chair sounds like the worst seat in the house.

Good comments. I wish everyone at my course would take that to heart.

By the way, only the first couple of sentences in my post were actually a reply to you... the rest was just a general reply to the thread.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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People are slow because people are slow. Faster players tend to think two steps ahead.

I think this is really the most important part. I play pretty fast (as in I can keep up walking with a group of 3 drivers) and a lot of it comes from just being prepared. I get my yardage as a walk to the ball, check my scorecard (write score, get yardage for next hole and pick out clubs) as I am walking between holes, place my bag in the correct spot off the green, stuff like that. Slower golfers tend not to.

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i cant stand slow players but I also dont like really fast players that ride your butt. Im talking about the older guy playing with a push cart thats fast walking/jogging to the ball, grabs a club and hits the ball without any practice swing. Then once they are on the green they hit a putt once that gets within 6 feet and pick up the ball rushing to the next hole without taking score.
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I just got done 18 holes in 1:50 wit ha buddy of mine. the fron we played in 45 minutes and shot a 40 anf a 39. it was awesome we both played very well. the back was a bit of a struggle but still completed in 105!! speed golf at it finest. i am even early for the meeting i have this afternoon!!

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Slow play is ignorant.

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I think this is really the most important part. I play pretty fast (as in I can keep up walking with a group of 3 drivers) and a lot of it comes from just being prepared. I get my yardage as a walk to the ball, check my scorecard (write score, get yardage for next hole and pick out clubs) as I am walking between holes, place my bag in the correct spot off the green, stuff like that. Slower golfers tend not to.

Bingo. Here's the big winner.

I think you just want to not inconvenience other people. If someone's riding your tail, being a jerk, 'huffin and puffin' - it's hard to do much about that. Just keep up. Play briskly. Think about your shot before you get up there. Figure out the wind and other tricky stuff on the way. Get up. Assess the lie. Pull a club (even though you should have thought that out in large part before you get to the ball) A practice swing. Waggle/routine. Shot. Walk. Again.

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We (a foursome) walked and played Oakmont from the back tees in LESS than four hours today.

A round of golf that takes more than four hours is too long.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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2½ front 9 today was god awful with a group on carts riding our ass all day and a group in front that took at least 8/9 minutes just to putt every hole.

Really threw off my game completely.

Waiting out the 2 feet of snow that just dropped on the course....

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We (a foursome) walked and played Oakmont from the back tees in LESS than four hours today.

At your handicap level maybe, but not at mine. Granted I wouldn't be playing from the back tees, but I'd still take at least 30 more swings than you did. A foursome of high handicappers isn't finishing in close to four hours even if they play ready to play and optimize the use of a cart.

Joe Paradiso

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Note: This thread is 3121 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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