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"The Stack and Tilt Swing: The Definitive Guide..." by Andy Plummer and Mike Bennett


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I've heard that Mike and Andy aren't 100% pleased with the book, just as they weren't 100% pleased with the Golf Digest articles.

This is all golfing machine. Mike and Andy know their stuff and are cool guys.

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This is all golfing machine.

I know that. It's beside the point, though: the book doesn't mention "accumulators" or cover them by their names - it's slightly "dumbed down" a little bit. The MORAD positions (P1, P3, etc.) aren't included either.

This makes the book a bit more accessible but also leaves room for students to grow and learn a bit more language with instructors or fellow S&Ters.;

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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rather excited for wednesday.... new irons tomorrow new putter tuesday and my book is delievered wednesday.

Will be nice for a few more people to establish an understanding and beable to pass along accurate information, it seems there is a VAST amount of missinformation surrounding S&T; ... more so than pretty much any golf topic I've heard discussed.

What's In My Bag?
Driver : Diablo
3wood : Diablo
Hybrid : 3DX RC Ironwood #3 20*
Irons : j36 cb's Putter : Tour Platinum 7081Ball : TP Black LDPHome Course :Lonnie Poole Golf Course at NC State University 74.7/134Eagle Ridge Golf Club 73.0/131


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Will be nice for a few more people to establish an understanding and beable to pass along accurate information, it seems there is a VAST amount of missinformation surrounding S&T; ... more so than pretty much any golf topic I've heard discussed.

That's true. There's a

lot of bad information out there. For example: And yes, that's the fella that used to be on this forum and a few others until he was removed. That image comes from the Facebook Stack and Tilt group . Best to get your information directly from the source. Good luck lobster.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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hey Erik ... do you know if there's an official list of S&T; instructors? I've been looking for a directory of sorts as I look for an instructor and I've had no luck so far.

What's In My Bag?
Driver : Diablo
3wood : Diablo
Hybrid : 3DX RC Ironwood #3 20*
Irons : j36 cb's Putter : Tour Platinum 7081Ball : TP Black LDPHome Course :Lonnie Poole Golf Course at NC State University 74.7/134Eagle Ridge Golf Club 73.0/131


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I believe their website (Plummer and Bennett's) will list them when it's available... but that may be awhile. Was supposed to be ready when the book was released.

Let's stick to discussing the book too in this thread, please. There's another Stack and Tilt "method" thread for the extraneous (but related) stuff.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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I wAs kinda skeptical at first but after reading the most recent article on golf digest on this and only a few of my shots were mishits or hooks/slice. I was actually pulling off some nice draws with my shots today. I'm going out to get the book as soon as as I can.

Whats in the Four 5?

Burner 10.5 Stiff
Burner 3W
CPR 22/26 HybridsG5 5-PW Black Dot +2 Vokey Sm OilCanSV Tour 60* Black FinishBarbadosPro-V1 recycled


initial thoughts of the book Erik? I'll posty my thoughts later tonight or tomrorow after i've read a bit more.

What's In My Bag?
Driver : Diablo
3wood : Diablo
Hybrid : 3DX RC Ironwood #3 20*
Irons : j36 cb's Putter : Tour Platinum 7081Ball : TP Black LDPHome Course :Lonnie Poole Golf Course at NC State University 74.7/134Eagle Ridge Golf Club 73.0/131


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initial thoughts of the book Erik? I'll posty my thoughts later tonight or tomrorow after i've read a bit more.

My review on Barnes and Noble:

Source: My Barnes and Noble Review I've played to a low single digit handicap for years, and though I enjoyed the process of working on my own swing, I'd go through lengthy periods of time when I was searching for the key to my swing. Invariably, I'd find something, play well for a few rounds, and then enter another lull. This year I decided to work with a Stack and Tilt instructor. Like many, I misunderstood a lot of the principles and had a lot of misconceptions about the swing, but with 20 or so PGA Tour players taking to it, I reconsidered. I'm glad I did - this year has been one of the most productive in my golf career. Not only do I know how to swing, I know how to fix it when things go awry. Stack and Tilt is a fairly simple method of playing good golf, but nobody can do it alone. If you can't find an instructor nearby, this book does a great job as a stand-in (and if you can find an instructor, this book is a great reminder between lessons). The book's photos wonderfully illustrate the concepts and the instructions are simple, clear, and concise. Not only are the positions and ideas explained thoroughly, but PGA Tour pros contribute their "feelings" and "sensations" to help players who are helping themselves. The book is more than a "here is how to swing the club" guide as well. The last third of the book is invaluable to golfers as it contains drills, common faults and their fixes, and much more. This book does more to actually help the golfer in 240 or so pages than most golf instructional books do in 400. It's not much of a stretch to call this potentially the most beneficial golf instruction book since Hogan's "Five Lessons." Even if you're not a fan of the Stack and Tilt swing, I encourage you to pick up this book. Read the first chapter - I think you may change your mind. Implement some of the principles of the swing and, when you start beating your buddies, the book will pay for itself in no time.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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for some reason I didnt read that first review as you having acctually read the book.... no idea why. my apologies.

Forward and Intro are great so far. Never knew the fact that Steve Elkington went from 398 to 40th on the money list in 1 year after Mike and Andy. Good stuff so far.

What's In My Bag?
Driver : Diablo
3wood : Diablo
Hybrid : 3DX RC Ironwood #3 20*
Irons : j36 cb's Putter : Tour Platinum 7081Ball : TP Black LDPHome Course :Lonnie Poole Golf Course at NC State University 74.7/134Eagle Ridge Golf Club 73.0/131


  • 2 weeks later...
What I like about the book is that it describes 'golf principles', not a method. It does not say to put the club in this position because that is on plane and not give any definition and reasonfor 'plane'.

Golf's new list of fundamentals is changing the way we represent the swing. Low point, centers, axis, ...

Of the 20-odd players on tour who have adapted a principle or two, they have different unique motions yet apply the same principles. You can release it left like Wi or right like TA3 (release spectrum!)

Great book, read most of it the day that I bought it from Borders. I also have the DVD's and think the book is an excellent supplement to them. I had trouble understanding some of the points in the DVD's that were better explained in the book and vice-versa.
  • Upvote 1

  • 3 weeks later...
One comment on Amazon claims that the writing is poor, they could have used a better editor, etc.

Any truth to this claim?

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One comment on Amazon claims that the writing is poor, they could have used a better editor, etc.

Nope. I see the comment (the guy still gave it 5 stars) and have no idea what he's talking about.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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I picked up the book today and read the first two sections and skipped around other parts so far. In general, I love the book, and I was already pretty familiar with the theory before reading. I wholeheartedly agree with the positive reviews about the book's accuracy and clarity about what is important in a golf swing.

This is not a huge part of the book, but I would like to know what you guys think about the section on shot-shaping and "attachments" as they call it, on pages 126-131. Personally, I think it's fairly unclear. Specifically, it seems to me that if you are working from a base shot that is straight, and you follow the advice exactly on page 128 to play a fade, you will actually hit a slight pull-hook (the directions say nothing about adjusting alignment, ball position, or swing path to make up for the closed clubface). Are they implying that the different attachment positions will naturally change the swingpath, which will create the sidespin? It seems unclear.

Combined with an adjustment to alignment or swingpath, the section makes sense to me, and I actually think the philosophy of "guarding against over-curving" is a really solid idea, but I think the section could have been written much more clearly.

My personal take on the section is that I will just add in my head a "Step 1: Adjust your alignment, which will automatically adjust your swing path and create the desired sidespin without requiring you to change your normal swing", and then use the ideas in the book about attachment to guard against over-curving.

Anyway, not a huge deal, but I wanted to see what some of you guys think about this section.

Edit: Ok, I see that on page 130 it says "note that the closed attachment applies to the pull-fade, with contact on the front side of the circle", but still, the way they presented this section is pretty mucky in my opinion. Bottom line: I'm disappointed that a book that is so well-written and clear about basically everything else is kind of confusing about a topic as important as shot-shaping. In other words, if I were a beginner reading this section, I'm not sure I would immediately understand what causes a ball to curve, and that's too bad.
Scott T

G5 9° V2 75 X / 909F2 15.5° V2 85 X / 909H 19° V2 100 X / MP-33 #3-PW X100 / X-Forged Chrome 54.15 60.10 X100 / FGP Black 34" / Penta TP

Handicap is a guess because I haven't established one yet.Best score so far is a 71 on a 6,509 yard 70.3/121 par 72 muni, during a glorious...

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Specifically, it seems to me that if you are working from a base shot that is straight, and you follow the advice exactly on page 128 to play a fade, you will actually hit a slight pull-hook (the directions say nothing about adjusting alignment, ball position, or swing path to make up for the closed clubface).

They don't say anything about that because this is the section on attachments. You know by now to hit a draw you need to start the ball right - all those attachments are doing is helping you to start the ball left.

Moving the handle back more to your zipper helps you hit the ball on the front side of the circle, and thus, to fade it. Or hit a pull if you don't hit far enough on the front side of the circle or over-do the left clubface alignment. They talk about hitting fades in different parts of the book. This section is just about attachments. Yes, to hit a fade you'll tend to aim a bit further left with your body. It just helps to move the circle (the tangent of which is the line pointing right to the target - the point that separates the "back" from the "front" of the circle).
My personal take on the section is that I will just add in my head a "Step 1: Adjust your alignment, which will automatically adjust your swing path and create the desired sidespin without requiring you to change your normal swing", and then use the ideas in the book about attachment to guard against over-curving.

That's the point, yeah.

I see your point, but at the same time, I didn't find this section confusing. Obviously we came into it with different background knowledge, though.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Picked it up today from Border's as a "present" from the girlfriend. As a 20 handicapper, i'm looking forward to actually trying to engrain a swing that it simple in theory, yet effective. Got some UA cold weather gear too, so hopefully by spring we'll have a dropping handicap and dropping jaws.

They don't say anything about that because this is the section on attachments. You know by now to hit a draw you need to start the ball right - all those attachments are doing is helping you to start the ball left.

Wow, that was a great read! (Long flight today = I read the whole thing.) The book strikes the perfect combination of clear theory and specific technical instructions. Beyond that, the systematic approach that they lay out for working on your swing is extremely well-designed and practical. Genius!

When I read the rest of the book, I realized I was approaching the attachment section in the wrong way. I assumed it was Stack & Tilt’s version of the typical “How to Hit Fades and Draws”, but it’s really more about their philosophy for guarding against the over-curve, and it fits with the rest of the book fine. There is literally only one item in the book that I don’t necessarily agree with: the photo of the Stack & Tilt follow-through on page 77. Why is the club shaft pointed in that direction up and to the right? Shouldn’t it be following the same arc as the backswing and downswing? I guess maybe the idea is that the downswing has been completed already and the hands are relaxed at that point so they can drift off plane with no ill effects, but the photo still slightly bothers me. Other than that small point, I think the book is nearly flawless! One last thing: I will say that I am not convinced a weight shift is as disruptive to the Stack and Tilt system as they make it out to be. As long as you stack the weight forward before the downswing, it seems to me like it wouldn’t change the rest of the swing much at all (other than maybe making it more difficult to consistently find the right arm positions at the top of the swing). I also think using a weight shift could provide the benefits of slightly more power and possibly a feel/tempo/balance combination that some players would prefer (or at least are more familiar and comfortable with). Sure, maybe the weight shift is an unnecessary move, but I just think they are slightly overstating how disruptive it is to the Stack and Tilt system.
Scott T

G5 9° V2 75 X / 909F2 15.5° V2 85 X / 909H 19° V2 100 X / MP-33 #3-PW X100 / X-Forged Chrome 54.15 60.10 X100 / FGP Black 34" / Penta TP

Handicap is a guess because I haven't established one yet.Best score so far is a 71 on a 6,509 yard 70.3/121 par 72 muni, during a glorious...

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    • I'm not an "official" instructor but I've been helping people for a few years now. I find that most beginners never get taught a proper concept of how the swing works. I also find that most people need a better understanding of what the arms and hands do before even working on the grip or the rest of the body. This is because what your concept of how the arms work through the downswing will dictate how strong or weak your grip must be. And if your arms work correctly then you can get away with a lot of variation in the lower body and still hit the ball decently. This will be long by the way... now...I get technical because...well...if you're writing it, you have to make it understandable. So let's understand the swing structure of the left or lead arm. The clubhead is controlled by the left hand, the left hand is controlled by the left wrist which is made up of the two bones of the forearm; the ulna closest to the pinky finger and the radius closest to the thumb. The forearm is attached to but can work independently of the humorous or upper arm which ends at the shoulder joint. That's the structure you are working with. Now how each section of that structure can work in different ways so let's talk about them starting at the upper arm. You may have heard people use the term "external shoulder rotation." It's usually used in reference to the right arm but that's okay you need to understand it in the left arm as well. First off...that's not a correct term. The shoulder is a complex structure of three bones; the clavicle in the upper chest/neck area, the scapula or shoulder blade that glides across the back and the end of the humorous bone that is the upper arm. So when you hear that term what they really are saying is "external rotation of the humerus." A simple way to understand this is to think about arm wrestling. If you are arm wresting someone with your elbow on a table you are trying to force your opponents arm into external rotation while your upper arm would be internally rotating. If you are losing the wrestling match you will find that while your elbow stays in place, your forearm and hand will be pushed back behind the elbow as your humerus externally rotates. So in the golf swing we don't want to be the winner of the arm wrestling match... at any point in time! Both upper arms need to externally rotate. The right upper arm externally rotates in the backswing and stays in that position through impact or for some people just before but very close to impact. The left arm must externally rotate in the downswing from impact through the finish. Some people choose to set-up with both upper arms externally rotated...think elbows pointed at the hips or biceps up. Others will start with just the right arm in this position...some people describe it as the "giving blood" position. Others start with both elbows internally rotated...biceps facing inward toward each other. You can set-up whichever way feels best to you but in your backswing and downswing the upper arms MUST externally rotate. Now back to the left arm...with which you should try to control the swing...and the forearm. The forearm is where most people get in trouble because it can rotate left or right no matter which orientation your upper arm is in...try it...it's just how the forearm is structured to work. And this is where you MUST make the decision as to how you want the forearms to work in order to choose how strong or weak your grip must be. Ben Hogan in his book 5 Lessons uses the terms supination and pronation. To illustrate it simply grab a club in your left hand and hold it out in front of you. Rotate your forearm to where your knuckles point to the sky (this is pronation) and then rotate your forearm the other way so that your knuckles point to the ground (this is supination). When your lead forearm is in pronation (knuckles up) the ulna will be on the left side of the radius. In supination (knuckles down the ulna rotates under the radius and the radius is now on the left side of the ulna. Very important that you relate this to the position of the ulna. At the top of the backswing you should be in a position where you feel that the knuckles of the left hand are pointed to the sky. As you rotate your body open and your chest pulls your arms down and into impact you will need to be aware that your ulna stays on the left side of the radius as long as possible. This is the position instructors are trying to have you achieve by pulling the butt of the club into an invisible wall past your left leg while maintaining the 90 degree angle formed by the shaft and your forearm. You've probably seen or heard of that drill as we all have over the years. Now here is the IMPORTANT part that no one seems to ever speak of...what happens from there!?! From that position...ulna on the left side of the radius, shaft and the forearm at a 90 degree angle, hands directly over the ball...you have two choices. 1) You can keep the ulna traveling toward the target on the left side of the radius and only release (unhinge) the wrists to lower the clubhead down into the ball or 2) while you unhinge your left wrist you can rotate your left forearm from the pronated position (knuckles up) to the supinated position (knuckles down) and let the ulna rotate under and eventually to the right side of the radius. If you choose to release the club with method 1 you will need a strong grip. The clubface will stay stable and square to the target throughout the swing but you probably will lose distance and have a very spinny ball flight. If you choose to release the club with method 2 you will probably require a much weaker grip as the clubhead will be less stable as it closes down coming into impact. This method requires more timing but results in more power through impact and usually more distance. You may also hook the ball if you start with too strong of a grip or a closed clubface at address. Method 2 is what most pros use but not all. Method 1 is what causes most people to hit weak, spinny slices and requires an unusually strong grip because with method 1 the left forearm has a tendency to open more coming into impact where the ulna stays in front of the radius too long.    Here's the catch...you need to learn both releases. Release 1 is how you want to use your wedges when you want to make sure the bounce interacts with the turf or if you need to hit a cut from left to right around a tree. You'll get more height and more spin with release 1. Release 2 will let the leading edge tear through the turf taking a nice crisp divot and can be used to hook a ball from right to left. Congratulations to anyone that read through all of this! I believe that once your brain understands precisely how it needs to control the different parts of your body it can do it repetitively on command. Your swing will repeat and not fall apart from day to day. Learn how you want to use your forearms and you can choose your grip and clubface position at address. Either method will work and both methods are used by the best players in the world for different shots.
    • Day 330 - Mostly just partial swings today, so I could really focus on exaggerating my hips towards the target in my finish. 
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