backswing question - How flat is "too flat"

[uppi]

So yesterday I was warming up on the range for my last round of the season, first time playing in two weeks, and I was all over the place. I was hitting shanks, slices, thin shots and fat shots. Needless to say the round didnt go to well as I shot a 92. I have generally been a hooker of the ball all season long, trying to hit fades. All the sudden I cant hit a solid shot with a draw to save my life. While I was on the range I started tinkering with my takeaway and tried a flatter swing. It felt like I could only take the club halfway back but It practically guaranteed me a "in to out swing" and I started hitting straight shots, not slices or hooks but hitting it dead straight. The only drawback to it was if not careful it was easy to go "inside in" and hit duck hooks. I realized when I would start the club back I would try and take it straight back, but I was not taking it straight back to my target line I was taking it what I thought was straight back but was actually outside the target line, causing me to come outside in. Should the backswing be this flat though? I practiced in the mirror last night and it seems WAY to flat, and I am worried it will start to other problems. It feels like I am taking the club back to the inside to much which according to most instructors is not a good thing. However I have seen guys like Matt Kuchar who have insanely flat swings and play well so I guess I am asking how flat is too flat? How do you know if you are taking the club too far to the inside on your takeaway?

[MacBooky]

Well, that kinda depends ...... club is attached to your arms ... if you just 'fold it' inside with your wrists and armroll you're up the preverbial sh&tcreek; ..... you should thinks of a 'one-piece takaway" where the arms travel inside and the club kinda follows that line

[bruce]

I actually went to a flat swing,i am trying and struggling to get back to a more vertical swing now.A flat swing can cause you to take it to far inside on the backswing and cause you to come over the top to get back to the ball.

[wrx_junki]

I actually went to a flat swing,i am trying and struggling to get back to a more vertical swing now.A flat swing can cause you to take it to far inside on the backswing and cause you to come over the top to get back to the ball.

I've been trying to go to a more vertical swing lately without much practice and with occasional rounds without much success. Been hitting a lot of short irons real fat...

[shortstop20]

If you sometimes hit blocks and big sweeping hooks that start right of target and come back left of target, I'd say there's a good chance you're too flat.

I think flat is still better than over the top, but don't think you can't be too flat, because I can assure you that you can and it's not fun.

[Golf_Gal]

During my golf lesson over the weekend, we were working on flattening out my backswing, and it just needs to be parallel to the ground, is what I understand and its more of a twist!

[mc0388]

It felt like I could only take the club halfway back but It practically guaranteed me a "in to out swing" and I started hitting straight shots, not slices or hooks but hitting it dead straight.

It sounds like you found your swing plane. Im curious if you complete your shoulder turn? If you still feel like you take the club halfway back with a proper shoulder turn, your probably coming in to flat...

[J_Bone]

Hhmm. I was hooking it bad for the last year. I played with a PGA Instructor and he offered up a tip. He said I was too flat in my back swing. So I adjusted and noticed I was hitting it much farther and straighter when I don't flatten it out. I was swinging like a baseball swing and around my body. I had to make sure I was lifting my arms up and not around my chest. BUT, it has been a 6 month learning session. It's not like it fixed it self over night. I knew what to do, but tough to re-train the muscle memory.
I must have had a really flat swing. But find had to find my swing plane.

[WUTiger]

However I have seen guys like Matt Kuchar who have insanely flat swings and play well so I guess I am asking how flat is too flat? How do you know if you are taking the club too far to the inside on your takeaway?

I know what you're thinking about. About three years ago, I decided to rebuild my swing. I had a very upright vintage Nicklaus-style "reach high and smash down" swing which was falling apart.

Two golf pros both suggested I go to a flatter swing. I am now working on a a 3/4 swing, take it back low, and stop at ear level at top. Then, drop hands into the slot and go. Big thing this prevents is overswinging - which causes me to lose my balance and either go over the top or super blockout to the right. Also, the wrist hinging takes care of itself. Remember, you rotate your shoulders around your spine for any takeaway. Your golf swing needs to match your flexibility - you can work on this - and your raw athleticism - you can't work on this. Take a look at martial arts guys: When they throw a punch, they have a modest backstroke, and a rapidly accelerating follow-through. No wild backswings with these guys. You might work with a pro to see what plane between upright and flat works for you and your body build. I switched clubs this spring, and am still a little wild on occasion. But for two or three holes each nine I'm "in the groove."

[RC]

"How flat a swing is" is a relative question. Think about the plane your hands make going back and into the backswing position. Remember, at set-up, your hands are on a plane with your shoulders that is below the plane of the clubhead and shoulders -- you want to keep it that way going back.

As long as the club stays above that plane you should be OK (well, within reason.) Even if you take it back low, you don't want the hands to get above the club head/shoulder plane. The problem is when you jerk the club inside and let the butt end of the club point right of your target in the take-away and drop below the hands plane. If the club head leads the backswing around as your turn, you lose the "club in front of you" position and get trapped. Invariably, that leads to either coming over the top or a flippy hands motion at impact. The hands move inside, but the club stays above and outside the hands at least until waist high at a minimum. You go deep with the hands as long as the shoulder turn is the reason, but don't go deep with the club head just to get it into an inside position. If going flat means you are flinging the club around your body, letting it drop under the hands and at waist high on the back swing an extension of the club shaft is pointing right and above your target, you are going to have to do something to compensate for this inffective position. That is a swing killing move.

That is also why a flat shoulder turn is bad. Does that make sense? Just remember, deep means a shoulder turn that gets the hands deep, not a motion confined mostly to the club itself. Get that right and it is actually pretty hard to be too flat (not saying impossible.) As long as the shoulders tilt so the left shoulder comes back under and you keep the hands/clubhead relationship OK, you are not too flat. Study the Hogan pictures.

[Blades4me]

So yesterday I was warming up on the range for my last round of the season, first time playing in two weeks, and I was all over the place. I was hitting shanks, slices, thin shots and fat shots. Needless to say the round didnt go to well as I shot a 92. I have generally been a hooker of the ball all season long, trying to hit fades. All the sudden I cant hit a solid shot with a draw to save my life. While I was on the range I started tinkering with my takeaway and tried a flatter swing. It felt like I could only take the club halfway back but It practically guaranteed me a "in to out swing" and I started hitting straight shots, not slices or hooks but hitting it dead straight. The only drawback to it was if not careful it was easy to go "inside in" and hit duck hooks. I realized when I would start the club back I would try and take it straight back, but I was not taking it straight back to my target line I was taking it what I thought was straight back but was actually outside the target line, causing me to come outside in. Should the backswing be this flat though? I practiced in the mirror last night and it seems WAY to flat, and I am worried it will start to other problems. It feels like I am taking the club back to the inside to much which according to most instructors is not a good thing. However I have seen guys like Matt Kuchar who have insanely flat swings and play well so I guess I am asking how flat is too flat? How do you know if you are taking the club too far to the inside on your takeaway?

Speaking personally and being right handed, I know my swing plane is too flat when everything starts going left.

[shortstop20]

"How flat a swing is" is a relative question. Think about the plane your hands make going back and into the backswing position. Remember, at set-up, your hands are on a plane with your shoulders that is below the plane of the clubhead and shoulders -- you want to keep it that way going back.

This is a good post, getting the hands "deep" is exactly what I had to work on to cure my flat swing. I still need work, but I'm getting there.

[uppi]

I should also clarify its not that im taking the club lower and around my body more, I am taking it straight back but keeping my arms much closer to my body. As a result with my shoulder turn I get flatter and I feel like I cant get as much turn because my arms dont feel like they are going back as far, but I am hitting straighter and more consistent, with a much better ballflight, and even increased my iron distance a little

[mc0388]

I should also clarify its not that im taking the club lower and around my body more, I am taking it straight back but keeping my arms much closer to my body. As a result with my shoulder turn I get flatter and I feel like I cant get as much turn because my arms dont feel like they are going back as far, but I am hitting straighter and more consistent, with a much better ballflight, and even increased my iron distance a little

I saw this on the GolfFix (it actually is an OK drill). along the target line, place a club in front of and behind the ball, keeping the clubs about 6-8 inches apart. Choke up on the shaft (maybe 15inches down). Take half of a back swing and stop, if the butt of your club points inside the 2 clubs you have on the ground, your swing plane is good. If the club is pointing outside the 2 clubs, you either are coming in to flat or to steep (depending on which club you are outside of...

Hope this helps

[groovezilla79]

I saw this on the GolfFix (it actually is an OK drill). along the target line, place a club in front of and behind the ball, keeping the clubs about 6-8 inches apart. Choke up on the shaft (maybe 15inches down). Take half of a back swing and stop, if the butt of your club points inside the 2 clubs you have on the ground, your swing plane is good. If the club is pointing outside the 2 clubs, you either are coming in to flat or to steep (depending on which club you are outside of...

Im not too sure this is a good drill for everyone. The swing can change a lot between halfway back and the top. Just look at guys like Furyk, Perry and Couples. Im sure halfway back they wouldn't be within the "correct" swing plane.

I would suggest a few lessons from a local pro. No one here can see your swing in real time. And most of us wouldn't be able to correctly analyze it anyways

[tim31x]

you don't want a flat backswing, that's not what will make u draw or fade. most guys on tour play a draw in my experience and film study. they are all pretty much in the same position at the top, however they all drop their hands/club back into the "slot" and back on plane. players like hogan with very flat swings are a little below the average position at the top, and this causes them to drop their hands to the very bottom of the "slot", however they still remain on plane. if you are hitting nothing but hooks you are probably releasing your hands/rolling your wrists, or not finding the "slot" on the way back down. check your swing on video its the best tool we have.

[CalBoomer]

Speaking personally and being right handed, I know my swing plane is too flat when everything starts going left.

I have to agree with this in spades. Whenever my swing plane gets too flat, I begin hitting vicious hooks. So I try to get a bit more vertical on my backswing. But not too vertical because tat leads to slicing.