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Bogey Golfers and "Working the Ball"


juanrjackson
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Learning to work the ball was one of the things that helped me get better, because it teaches you how the ball reacts when you do certain things in the golf swing. The game of golf is about learning to control the golf ball.

That sounds like fun, lol. I think i might ask a friend to put me through something like that..

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  • 1 month later...
I guess one way of look at it....if you spend your time mastering the art of hitting a straight, controlled shot...you should be mitigating your need to hit a specific draw/fade shot.

I've had sort of the opposite experience. I've been able to hit better straight shots since I've started thinking about trying to work the ball. Understanding how to work the ball includes how to hit it straight. I just think of it as a very limited number of combinations face angles and swing paths, one of which gives me a perfectly straight ball. It makes it easier to identify what I did wrong. That being said, I don't try to pull off too many shots like that on the course but I think it's good practice.

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There was a point last summer where I started hitting a draw with my irons without trying. I fell in love with the ball flight and people I play with asking me how I do it. Eventually, it screwed up my swing very badly. Finally, my very good friend stepped in and commented about my alignment so I had him video my swing one day at the course. F me, I was lined up way right of the target and had a nasty swing path. Yes, the times I made good contact the ball would draw but I also a) lost distance and b) was inconsistent. Over the winter I decided to rework my entire swing, starting with my posture and alignment. So far, I haven't been hitting many draws except with my scoring irons and wedges but my contact and overall swing is much better, not to mention I know where the ball is going now.

I'll admit, some courses I play around my area need workability. There's one we play quite a bit that has a lot of trees hanging over the fairways and protecting the greens. But there are openings if one could move the ball one way or the other. And also trajectory. I am pretty adept at hooking the ball around trees now :)

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I used to be a bogey golfer and fully expect to be there again this year after picking up the game after some years. I hit pretty straight, sometimes a slight fade. I rarely try to work the ball, but do so a few times a round. Why? Because it makes the game fun. I enjoy walking up to a shot, thinking a nice draw is the perfect shot, pretending I can execute it, and swinging away. Sometimes it works, often it does not. The game is supposed to be fun...

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I've had a few lesson and managed to turn my nasty slice into a gentle fade. My last five rounds have been in the early 90s, so I guess I'm bogey-ish.
I've never hit a draw, or even a hook in my life- I've even tried to hook the ball on the range and I just can't do it. The only time my ball goes left of where I'm aiming is when I pull it.

I've asked my instructor about this, and he says he'd rather me hit fades than draws. The reason being when a fade goes wrong, you end up short and right of target, when a draw goes wrong, you're left and past the target. you have a better chance of recovery with the former than the latter.

At my stage in the game, I couldn't imagine trying to shape shots- I'm too busy trying to make them all straight-ish!

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I try to work the ball on every shot. And yes, I fail often. Still, it's smarter than trying to hit it straight- that's the hardest shot in golf probably. Well, maybe the 50 yard bunker shot is the hardest shot in golf, but you hopefully get what I'm saying.

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I try to play the ball flight that i am hitting on a given day. I may be odd but on a given day i can play a draw, str or a fade...some times i can't stop them!! The only time i try to "work a ball" is is I am in trouble and it gives me the best chance to get out. From the fairway or on an open shot if I am drawing the ball on that given round I will play it or vica versa.

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I play G5 irons (supposedly "game improvement") and E6 balls (to limit sidespin), which would ostensibly mean I can only hit balls straight. Yet I find that is not the case at all. I play a draw or a fade, or hit low/high, whenever I need to get around a tree or the contour of the course requires it. I've hit some really nice shots like this, but most of the time I put too much or too little movement on it. I guess next I need to learn how to put different amounts of draw/fade on it, rather than all or nothing. Would also love to learn how to hit perfectly straight

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I try to work the ball on every shot. And yes, I fail often. Still, it's smarter than trying to hit it straight- that's the hardest shot in golf probably. Well, maybe the 50 yard bunker shot is the hardest shot in golf, but you hopefully get what I'm saying.

I try to hit it straight most of the time and it works pretty well. How else can I attack a pin? There is no way that I can dial in a draw or fade as close as a straight shot. I don't see why it's so smart to work the ball all the time. My main focus is to improve my swing and be able to hit the shot that I set up to. If hitting a straight shot is that difficult, I would be a world champ. If anything, it can mess up my swing because a different setup can make me subconciously funky it up. When I'm able to hit a straight shot, I can make small changes and shape it. I won't be more accurate by shaping it. I still have to keep the relationship between the club face angle swing path angle perfect to hit it at a pin. I know my bad shots are ususally a pull, so I play to my weakness and give myself some room to miss at to the left.

How can a draw or fade make it easier to hit the fairway? The only difference is that you select the sidespin when setting up, instead of seeing which way it goes. If you leave the club open or closed, or swing on a different path, you can still end up in the rough. Who's said you can't work the ball with cavity back irons and balls with limited spin?

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Who's said you can't work the ball with cavity back irons and balls with limited spin?

Maybe it's a marketing thing? but I can work my brother's clubs (x-18's)...maybe not as easily as I can mine...but they can still be worked... a lot of tour folk I've seen in recent years have mid cavity clubs.... and they work it just fine.

As for working the ball as a bogey golfer, I was considered a bogey golfer until last year...and I still tried to learn how to work the ball.. I learned the draw and fade in '08... in '09 I kept using it..and I feel that it made me focus & concentrate on the shot more.... There aren't too many shots now that I don't try to do something with the ball.. sure I fail...sometime I try to turn it over and I leave it out to hang...other times I try to fade out and I pull the ball.... but I feel that if you practice how to draw, fade, trajectory shots, etc...you'll have a lot more understanding of what the club does at impact and how to use your club for certain shots... and besides... to lower the HC I feel you need to "work the ball." even if it's just trajectory work.
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I agree that being able to work the ball is useful, but necessary? Also, as a bogey player, our ball striking is far from good, so trying to work the ball can lead to even more misery. Every good player can hit a straight ball and play great golf, there is no need to shape it to play well. Course management and knowing your misses is in my opinion far more important than working the ball. With the driver, avoiding water or bunkers is useful, it is the club with the largest potential of error. I sometimes work the ball slightly to avoid trouble. Irons I don't have that problem with. I know my misses and compensate for them if there is trouble where I can miss it. I don't see why it would be easier to hit the ball from left to right into a green than straight at it.

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I agree that being able to work the ball is useful, but necessary? Also, as a bogey player, our ball striking is far from good, so trying to work the ball can lead to even more misery. Every good player can hit a straight ball and play great golf, there is no need to shape it to play well. Course management and knowing your misses is in my opinion far more important than working the ball. With the driver, avoiding water or bunkers is useful, it is the club with the largest potential of error. I sometimes work the ball slightly to avoid trouble. Irons I don't have that problem with. I know my misses and compensate for them if there is trouble where I can miss it. I don't see why it would be easier to hit the ball from left to right into a green than straight at it.

You mentioned knowing where your misses will end up and find it easy to hit the ball perfectly straight. Are you sure you're a 15 handicap?

I can see why many some people find it easier to work the ball very slightly (one way or the other - depending on the hole) rather than hit it dead straight. For one, it's good practice. People who try to work the ball on every shot don't really have to tap into a theoretical knowledge base and an untested skill set. They likely have confidence that they can pull it off. It's can also be good strategy. Imagine a pin that's 5 paces from the right edge with a green side bunker on the right. Imagine there are 15 paces from pin to the left edge. The player could aim directly at the pin, and possibly miss the green entirely. He could also aim about 8 paces left of the pin, take a bit more club, and hit a high cut - a slight fade. If the ball goes straight - still putting. If the ball moves a bit right - a shorter putt. Even if they overdo the cut a bit - probably still putting. Imagine another scenario (one where I personally would work the ball) where the pin is on the left. It's tucked behind a large and deep bunker, while the entire right 1/2 the green is wide open (fairway leading right up to the putting surface). This is a sucker pin. If you go directly at the pin, you'd better make clean contact. Or, you could take more club, aim at the safe portion of the green and try to work the ball. Hit the ball a little higher, and slightly right to left. Then there's the whole, "holding a ball against the wind" thing. It's worth a try.

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I said it was easy to hit a straight shot, not that I do it all the time. Why should a straight shot be any harder than a shaped shot? Both require a perfect balance between swing path angle and club face angle.

Using your examples, if you leave the clubface closed you will be even further from the hole. If you aim at the center of the green, you can miss both ways and still be on the green. I often hear people using examples like you do, saying that slightly more cut or less will just leave you shorter or a bit further from the hole, but what if you leave the clubface closed, or don't get the cut? You'll be far from the hole. It all comes down to having a swing path you can rely on, and being able to adjust the clubface accordingly, with control. I know I can't control my clubface down to a degree or two today. If I could, hitting it straight would still leave me fairly close to the pin. If you can miss 5 yards right with a straight shot, you can miss 5 yards left with a curved shot.

Don't get me wrong, I see the benefits of being able to work the ball, I'm just using my personal experience as a bogey golfer. Sure I can hit a draw and fade, but more consistently than a straight shot? Probably not. I've just recently improved my ball striking a lot, so I might try working the ball more than before. As a 10 handicapper, your ballstriking is better than mine, so you will be better at working the ball too. My point is that I won't benefit from trying to work the ball at my current level.

There is also a mental part of this. Aiming for the water, wanting to curve the ball away from it. I don't trust my swing and ball striking well enough to be confident that I can keep the clubface open or shut to get the desired shape and avoid the water.

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Learning to control/shape/work the ball is just as important as learning to swing correctly imo.

As Iacas said earlier trying to work the ball on every shot helps to clear your mind of technical thoughts, its near impossible to play well consistently thinking about technique.

Learning to shape the ball and forget technique on the golf course is helping me to take my game to the next level at the moment.

It is worth remembering that, at any level shaping shots gives you an amount of predictability to the result of the shot as opposed to hitting it straight, the ball can go left or right.

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I said it was easy to hit a straight shot, not that I do it all the time. Why should a straight shot be any harder than a shaped shot? Both require a perfect balance between swing path angle and club face angle.

A perfectly straight shot is the hardest shot in golf. Even when trying to hit a relatively straight shot, I allow for a few feet of draw or fade, depending on the day and on my lie (hmm . . . that could be why I'd consider myself a better player than I was 15 years ago, and yet I'm less likely to hole out). I've been reminded of some things this winter about ball flight (thanks in part to this site). I might try to hit it straighter this summer. I also might try to work the ball more, just for fun.

I'm not sure it's a good plan to ever aim directly at a water hazard hoping to move the ball away from it - that's tempting fate. I'm more likely to aim at a safe point and try to move the ball toward a safer position. If it's rather penal to be too far away from the hazard (long rough - in jail - blocked out - no look at the pin) you may need to work the ball again - probably the same shot, so that's good. Or, start the ball at the safe side and work it towards the trouble - something to never do in the old days with wound balls and persimmon woods. BTW - I don't have an official handicap any more (just registered with the RCGA this summer so I'll update the hdcp eventually - maybe it'll go up!?!?). In the meantime, I consider anyone who consistently shoots between low 80s and low 90s to be a bogey golfer.

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As a 10 handicapper, your ballstriking is better than mine, so you will be better at working the ball too. My point is that I won't benefit from trying to work the ball at my current level.

I started learning how to work the ball as a 15 HC. and b/t dropping from a 15 to a 10 was simple: managing my short game.... from 10 - 5 was the ability to get up and down from any scenario... I play with mid HC's that strike the ball better and hit it further than I do.... but the biggest differences that you see with them is that their ability to get up and down from certain situations and recover isn't as consistent.

with that said.... try working the ball... you obviously understand how to work it..hitting it high..low....hold shots...cuts and draws....I'll guarantee you that as you do it during the rest of the season, you'll see your ball striking get better and become more consistent. it really does eliminate over thinking and relies more on confidence and and your base of a repeatable swing.
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I think I answered already, but:

a) PGA Tour golfers hit the same shot 95% of the time - their stock shot. It works, they can rely on it, and if they hit it well they have a 20 footer for birdie even on pins that are on the "wrong" side of the green for their stock shot.

b) I encourage higher handicap golfers to work the ball every chance they get. It can only help them learn things. Maybe when a guy tries to hit a big sweeping hook he'll hit a straight shot and it might clue him in to something... and then he can improve.

I love to go to the range and hit shots that go high, low, left, right, and every which way. The trick is obviously doing it on purpose. But on the course, stock shots... 95% of the time.

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iacas and djyoshi, I couldn't agree more.

I try hitting different shapes, both left/right and different trajectories at the range. Both to see what I can do, and to gain confidence hitting those shots.

But on the course, I'll decide to shape (positive thinking here, doing not trying) a shot because I feel I can do it, and given the situation where my next shot would benefit from that shape. But most of the time, I'm mostly considering my trajectories either due to the wind, green elevation or hardness of the green, but keeping the ball straight.

If I'm hitting a certain shape that day, I don't try to fight it until I feel like I know what's up with my swing.

My putting is the worst part of my game, then my ball striking. My short game usually leaves me within a reasonable 1.5 putt distance, but I'm capable of a three putt on any hole. So between missing greens in reg and too many putts, that is why I haven't broken 90.

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