Extending the Right Knee on the Backswing

[zeg]

I agree with Hogan; keep the knee angle the same as at address. It's harder to learn than the natural" straightening, but the reward of simplicity once learned is significant.

I don't think Hogan necessarily says not to straighten the leg. The angle he's talking about is the down the line angle, at least that's my impression from the drawings in the book. You have to change the angle in the plane perpendicular to that---without even worrying about knee flex, if your hip turns at all, the angle between your right hip and right foot has to change. Either you move your hip up and down to keep your right leg flex constant (imo bad idea) or you straighten the leg slightly to keep your hip steady. You can do that while maintaining the angle in the down-the-line plane, which is clearly exactly what Tiger does in the video.

[Mr.Wedge]

You can't rotate your hips at all if you have a serious flex in your knee.

That just simply isn't accurate. The hips do rotate, but reach a stopping point less than the upper torso rotation. That's the "brace" spoken of by Ballard and many others. Keeping the hips level in this manner makes it feel as if the right hip is moving down. The feel at the top is that of "sitting down" on the right hip.

Sure you can, you'll just have swing as weak as a kitten and bulging disks by the 3rd hole.

From someone who has dealt with lower back strain all my adult life, keeping the hips level and maintaining a solid brace on the inside of the right leg places far less stress on the lower back than any sort of rocking up and down motion of the hips.

[Leftygolfer]

That just simply isn't accurate. The hips do rotate, but reach a stopping point less than the upper torso rotation. That's the "brace" spoken of by Ballard and many others. Keeping the hips level in this manner makes it feel as if the right hip is moving down. The feel at the top is that of "sitting down" on the right hip.

Give me some video, something you are basing this on. Every picture here has a straightening of the back knee.

[Leftygolfer]

From someone who has dealt with lower back strain all my adult life, keeping the hips level and maintaining a solid brace on the inside of the right leg places far less stress on the lower back than any sort of rocking up and down motion of the hips.

Also, some pictures of your swing. I am not saying you shouldn't brace just that the bend decreases in every backswing.

[sean_miller]

" . . . rocking up and down motion of the hips."

Are you still talking about golf?

[Mr.Wedge]

Are you still talking about golf?

Sounds funny..I knew it before I posted it. But seiously, if the knee straightens, the hip rises and has to lower on the downswing. Thats the "rocking" I referred to. The question is why? For what benefit? It's just a lot of extra motion which is full of risk. Isn't the object to whittle away all the extraneous movement? For clarification, of course the knee moves some; it has to in order to accomodate hip rotation. But any conscious straightening is counter productive for someone wanting to learn to hit with authority.

[sean_miller]

For clarification, of course the knee moves some; it has to in order to accomodate hip rotation.

Isn't that consistent with almost every post in this thread?

[Mr.Wedge]

Isn't that consistent with almost every post in this thread?

"Move", but not straighten. The premise of the thread is to straighten the knee, and not listen to sage advice of keeping it flexed.

[sean_miller]

"Move", but not straighten. The premise of the thread is to straighten the knee, and not listen to sage advice of keeping it flexed.

Are you sure it is? I must have read it wrong. I thought the premise of the thread is that Kostis and Faldo were promoting the right leg firmly at the same angle as the address position, which is widely regarded as virtually impossible.

[Leftygolfer]

Sounds funny..I knew it before I posted it. But seiously, if the knee straightens, the hip rises and has to lower on the downswing. Thats the "rocking" I referred to. The question is why? For what benefit? It's just a lot of extra motion which is full of risk. Isn't the object to whittle away all the extraneous movement? For clarification, of course the knee moves some; it has to in order to accomodate hip rotation. But any conscious straightening is counter productive for someone wanting to learn to hit with authority.

If you keep the flex in your knees as "all the wise pros teach" you will have to stand up in the backswing in order to make a full turn. I don't know about you, but whenever I see someone changing there inclination to the ground that is a sure sign they suck and can't hit it solidly. If you want to make a good turn and remain the same distance from the ball, my left knee is going to lose some flex or I have to stand up. Please provide video of someone who you can clearly see retains the flex in the knee in the back swing. These ideas aren't the truth. That is one of the main reasons people have gotten no better. Teachers are teaching them to swing a club in a way they can't do and in order to maintain the flex they stand up in the back swing and wonder why they haven't gotten any better.

[saevel25]

To me you shouldn't concern yourself with the knees at all, unless you have a knee problem. Look at swing sequences, copy the athletic posture, practice the posture so you can repeat it. Then get a solid backswing were you can into a good position at the top. The knee will take care of its self. I been playing golf for over 15 years and i never once have concerned myself with my right knee. It never comes to mind. I know it straightens a bit, but its not locking and its not staying the same at address... why should it, the left leg straightens at impact, why wouldn't the right leg straighten if your rotating from right to left. Golf swing is basically a mirror image.

[MikeLowry5]

You can add Butch Harmon to the list of those who have said to keep a flexed right (if youre right handed) knee.

[westcyderydin]

man who cares. if u like s and t great, if u dont use it great. but i dont understand this argument. the thread is titled "straighten your leg". but on the other hand now you are not supposed to straighten it all the way. what side of the argument are u on. its like they are trying to argue it both ways. the only important thing is that you dont lock your back leg. anything else is really not that important in this argument.

just keep it solid. just like faldo said. this doesnt mean that u dont move the angle of your back knee at all, but if that is what you do it is not that bad. there is not much of a difference between the two. but everybody is agreeing not to lock your back leg. so there is really no argument to be made.

i dont know too much about s and t and im not saying if its good or bad. but think for yourself. some of these s and t fans are kind of annoying and just want to argue things about the golf swing that are either not very important or very individual to each player and they make it sound like their way is only one way to do it. if they had their way every golfer would swing exactly the same way.

[iacas]

I'm going to begin with this picture:

Most of them maintain flex in their knee, it just looks like the leg straitens because of the hip turn.

Wrong. They maintain

some flex. Nobody's said you "lock" your knee. Be clear about that - your right knee straightens. We play golf on an angle, and on an inclined plane. The hips have to turn in a circle on that inclined plane too - the belt line is angled at address and should turn in a circle on that angle on the backswing. You accomplish that by letting the back knee straighten and the front knee gain a little flex. It's simple biomechanics.

Thats because when golfers straighten there right leg they don't get there weight over to that leg. Then when they swing down there weight shifts to there right leg and they can't get off it. This causes them to lift up and out of the swing, thinning shots.

Yeah, that Ben Hogan hit a lot of thin shots.

Palmer too:

Well yes there has to be some leg straightening, unless you have some wierd golf motion. But i don't think people should be conscious of it, if there in an athletic stance and take the club back on plane the knee should straighten to were its natural for that person.

If that were the case everyone would do everything naturally. People have flaws, and one of them is often that their back knee doesn't straighten enough to facilitate rotating the hips on their inclined plane.

As has been said, you certainly don't want to lock it. Also, is Faldo really saying not to straighten? He just says you want it "solid." Hogan advises not letting the angle of your right leg change during your swing and advises propping a club along it to verify that you're maintaining that angle.

That was the angle from the ground to the club viewed face-on. If that angle changed you'd be swaying.

On one of the recent threads that had a face-on shot of Tiger hitting a 5W (IIRC), I noted that during his backswing, that angle was rock solid. I'll see if I can find the link.

His knee clearly straightens.

man who cares.

People who enjoy talking about the golf swing. People who want to get better as golfers.

if u like s and t great, if u dont use it great.

Arnold Palmer invented S&T;? Oh, wait, I mean Ben Hogan? Or, wait, the person before him that straightened his back leg to let his hips work on their inclined plane invented S&T;?

This isn't an S&T; move. It's an athletic move used in the golf swing to allow the hips to work in a circle and on their inclined plane.

the thread is titled "straighten your leg". but on the other hand now you are not supposed to straighten it all the way.

Straighten = to make straighter. Straighten does not mean "make perfectly straight."

If I told you to flex your knees more at address would you automatically assume you had to flex them until you couldn't flex them anymore?

so there is really no argument to be made.

Yes there is. Too many instructors tell you to maintain the same flex you have at address in your legs throughout your backswing.

As for your last paragraph, well, hogwash. Again, Palmer and Hogan clearly did these things. Tiger does these things. It's not S&T; specific.

[Outfoxed]

Good stuff here guys!

[steve_sieracki]

erik great post!!! the one thing i would like to say is if golfers would just look at the pictures of the best players and emulated the pictures they would do better than if they read the words

[jamo]

It is good to know that one thing that I have done my whole life (straightening, but not locking, my right knee) is correct!

[nlowplacez]

is this a joke post? nobody straightens their knee on backswing, and you would look retarded if you did. the flex in those knees in those pics and videos is the same as it was at address. the left knee is flexed more making you think the right one straightened. please dont tell people to straighten their right leg in backswing. you might completely ruin some peoples golf swing