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colin007

Why Would Anyone Want to Carry Their Bag?

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Personally, I don't think there's any issue if you wish to carry, push a cart, pull a cart, or ride on a power cart. Just don't look down on me because I choose to do one of those options and it happens to differ from your preference. I really don't see what the big deal is with any of those options. To each their own.

This answer most reflects my sentiment as well. I dont care what someone else does. I usually take a power cart if its included in the price and if not a push cart. I go to the gym so I am not worried about walking and carrying a bag as I know I can lift and carry things that are much heavier.

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I have enough issues just lugging around my johnson all day. What difference will a 20lb golf bag make?

POTD!!!

I like to carry therefore I will.

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Personally, I don't think there's any issue if you wish to carry, push a cart, pull a cart, or ride on a power cart. Just don't look down on me because I choose to do one of those options and it happens to differ from your preference. I really don't see what the big deal is with any of those options. To each their own.

There is an issue if you're carrying your bag or using a push cart and you're a high high handicapper who likes to walk around looking for balls that you frequently mishit and don't know how to pick up and move on. Those players should be riding. To do anything else, will slow down the pace of play for everyone behind you and will become my issue if i'm the one behind you. As long as the proper pace of play is maintained, there should be no issues from anyone as to how you choose to play the course.

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The calories burned is the same (or actually slightly in favor of the push cart) because you are still doing essentially the same amount of work (W=FxD). That's pretty basic physics, and that formula doesn't change. In fact you may be doing a tiny bit more because you have added the weight of the cart and the effort necessary to overcome the friction in the wheels and in the contact with the ground, grass, etc. .

You applied W=F*D wrong. Using W=F*D, say you have a box in your hands that weighs 100 lbs. Now say you walk 1 mile. If you had walked that same mile without the box you would still be doing the same amount of work on the box, none. Because to support the box you are pushing up, and "d" is in a horizontal direction, they have no effect on each other. You are doing no work on the box. But, going back to the 2 scenarios, you will burn more calories holding the box than not, while the work is the same. So you can't convert calories to work in that situation.

The push/pull V. carry thing is much the same. Because you are pushing (or pulling) the bag in the same direction that you are walking, you are doing work on it. But because you are pushing the bag up with your shoulders when you carry, you are not doing any work on it. Calories, in that situation, I don't know. When you push all that yo have to overcome is the friction force on the wheels. When carrying the added force is gravity because you are essentially heavier. I'm just not sure how they compare in magnitude.

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There is an issue if you're carrying your bag or using a push cart and you're a high high handicapper who likes to walk around looking for balls that you frequently mishit and don't know how to pick up and move on. Those players should be riding. To do anything else, will slow down the pace of play for everyone behind you and will become my issue if i'm the one behind you. As long as the proper pace of play is maintained, there should be no issues from anyone as to how you choose to play the course.

Umm, no. How is this even part of this debate?

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Umm, no. How is this even part of this debate?

I think i explained myself clear enough. Haven't you ever been behind a group carrying? hitting it off the fairways, shanking it, spraying hit, then spending what seems like hours trying to find their balls? over and over again? happens to people in carts too, but with a cart, at least they can move from point a to point b faster. my point is in response to your statement that "Personally, I don't think there's any issue if you wish to carry, push a cart, pull a cart, or ride on a power cart." and that point being that there is an issue if by carrying, you are slowing down the pace of play. btw, i'm not saying you specifically, just those people who do slow down the pace of play by their playing ability and by carrying only makes it worse. can't get any clearer than that.

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I think i explained myself clear enough. Haven't you ever been behind a group carrying? hitting it off the fairways, shanking it, spraying hit, then spending what seems like hours trying to find their balls? over and over again? happens to people in carts too, but with a cart, at least they can move from point a to point b faster. my point is in response to your statement that "Personally, I don't think there's any issue if you wish to carry, push a cart, pull a cart, or ride on a power cart." and that point being that there is an issue if by carrying, you are slowing down the pace of play. btw, i'm not saying you specifically, just those people who do slow down the pace of play by their playing ability and by carrying only makes it worse. can't get any clearer than that.

I gotta side with Dave H on this one. How is walking around on foot looking for your ball more time consuming that driving around looking for it, other than the fact you might actually find it while on foot.

Slow players are slow for a lot of reasons, regardless of their mode of transportation - it's a different debate.

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Because they want to keep more fit than those who drive around in their carts! I also find there is a certain rhythm to walking that helps my game

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I like to play the game as it was meant to be played. I carry my bag when I play. It's not that tough unless you have a large bucket of range balls in a pocket you forgot about...

I have played carrying/pulling/pushing. I play the same with all of them. No stokes left out there. Of course, I am probably in better shape than you...

well, so far this study is the only "evidence" that supports the thought that carrying hurts your score. wheres the evidence otherwise? because you say so?

You applied W=F*D wrong. Using W=F*D, say you have a box in your hands that weighs 100 lbs. Now say you walk 1 mile. If you had walked that same mile without the box you would still be doing the same amount of work on the box, none. Because to support the box you are pushing up, and "d" is in a horizontal direction, they have no effect on each other. You are doing no work on the box. But, going back to the 2 scenarios, you will burn more calories holding the box than not, while the work is the same. So you can't convert calories to work in that situation.

You are moving mass in the same direction in which you are walking. How can that not be valid to the formula? There is no angular (theta) vector involved. You move it up then you move it forward. In both cases the force is applied parallel to the direction of movement. Granted that you have to withstand 1g acceleration all the time the object is supported by your shoulders but the work is still done with the legs. Carrying your bag from point A to point B requires only enough force to lift the bag to your shoulders on a vertical vector one time, then to move the combined mass of your body and the bag horizontally to the next point, then lower it to the ground with gravity doing most of the work for the last move. Friction is insignificant.

Moving a bag on a speed cart involves the same amount of force to move the mass of body and bag, plus enough to move the additional mass of the cart and defeat any friction between the cart and the turf. All force is still applied parallel to the direction of movement, so the formula is applicable I honestly don't know how much holding the bag against the pull of gravity when carrying affects the end result quantitatively, but that effect is almost exclusively applied to the legs, thus supporting the OP's contention that pushing is easier on the body than carrying, simply because the effort is more evenly distrributed among more muscle groups. I'm no engineer, but all of that was pretty easy to deduce just from the basic high school physics which I last studied more than 40 years ago.

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I gotta side with Dave H on this one. How is walking around on foot looking for your ball more time consuming that driving around looking for it, other than the fact you might actually find it while on foot.

Exactly. I am high handicapper, but I almost always move around the course faster than guys in carts when I get matched up with regardless of how poor I'm playing. Being slow has much less to do with method of transportation than other factors IMO.

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You are moving mass in the same direction in which you are walking. How can that not be valid to the formula? There is no angular (theta) vector involved. You move it up then you move it forward. In both cases the force is applied parallel to the direction of movement. Granted that you have to withstand 1g acceleration all the time the object is supported by your shoulders but the work is still done with the legs. Carrying your bag from point A to point B requires only enough force to lift the bag to your shoulders on a vertical vector one time, then to move the combined mass of your body and the bag horizontally to the next point, then lower it to the ground with gravity doing most of the work for the last move. Friction is insignificant.

Because: Work=F*D=Change in Energy. If you are supporting a bag on your shoulders, you are not changing it's energy, kinetic or potential. You only change the energy when you lift it and then when you place it down, which essentially cancel out. What I am saying is that you can't use the Work formula to support your cause, because it doesn't apply, not that you are right or wrong. In fact, you are probably right, the friction force at the bag's wheels is very small, so pushing would probably be much easier. But some people (myself included) just still prefer to carry.

Quoted from Wikipedia: "If the force and the displacement are parallel and in the same direction, the mechanical work is positive. If the force and the displacement are parallel but in opposite directions (i.e. antiparallel), the mechanical work is negative. However, if the force and the displacement act perpendicular to each other, zero work is done by the force" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_(physics )

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did you take that pic? that looks like a beautiful course...

Nah, I didn't take the photo. It's from Big Wheel Golf's website. The course is Barndougle Dunes in Tasmania. Ranked #1 public course in Australia I think... Pretty sure this pic was taken from one of the pro events there.

Always push your cart. Not only is it better for your back, but you can see if anything falls off!!!

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well, so far this study is the only "evidence" that supports the thought that carrying hurts your score. wheres the evidence otherwise? because you say so?

It also seems to support the thought that having a caddie hurts your score (40 with push cart, 42 with caddie).

also, what did you think about the calories burned being just about the same?

That in terms of total calories burned, pushing probably isn't as advantageous on a hilly course as a flat course (compared to carrying).

Carrying feels more stressful on my body than pushing especially as the temperatures start to get up above 90F. It makes sense that I might score better pushing than carrying. However, last season my scores were between 77 and 112 so any benefit/loss would likely be washed out in the noise of the shots I lose for other reasons. In any case around here walking seems to be a disappearing option as more and more "nice" courses are becoming cart mandatory. In light of that discussing pushing vs carrying may be superfluous.

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It also seems to support the thought that having a caddie hurts your score (40 with push cart, 42 with caddie).

That to me is the number 1 reason to doubt that the score results are valid. It seems more likely to me that there's a lot of scatter in the scores and we're just over-interpreting noise. It's possible that a caddie hurts your score, but it'd be sort of surprising, so unless someone describes their methods for demonstrating the statistical significance of the score changes, I'll continue to be skeptical.

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That to me is the number 1 reason to doubt that the score results are valid. It seems more likely to me that there's a lot of scatter in the scores and we're just over-interpreting noise. It's possible that a caddie hurts your score, but it'd be sort of surprising, so unless someone describes their methods for demonstrating the statistical significance of the score changes, I'll continue to be skeptical.

I was thinking the same thing. Having a caddie just forecaddie should improve your scores right there.

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[and how is it "more" golf than what the pros do? they dont carry...[/QUOTE]


Because they have caddies!! What kinda question is that??? Why don't they allow carts on the PGA tour?

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[and how is it "more" golf than what the pros do? they dont carry...

Because they have caddies!! What kinda question is that??? Why don't they allow carts on the PGA tour?[/QUOTE] not sure you understand...there seems to be a notion here that playing golf while walking and carrying your bag is the most "pure" form of golf, or more "golf" than pushing a cart. so my question is, are the tour pros not playing as pure a form of golf because they dont carry their clubs either?

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