The Haney Project: Rush Limbaugh

[Radford Wooly]

If you like the show,watch it. If you don't like it, don't watch.

[Uber$winG]

I wish the GC would show some creativity in their programming…

I’d like to see a juxtaposition of the characters in this season’s two reality shows. That is to say, I’d like to see Mark Burk train with Haney, and have Rush live the life homeless in a pipe – we might need a bigger pipe though.

[ghalfaire]

Originally Posted by Radford Wooly

If you like the show,watch it. If you don't like it, don't watch.

Here is some cogent advice!

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

I guess the third installment came around - saw part of it while working. It seems the way it has progressed is that Rush is egotistical, arrogant, loud, and defensive whereas Haney knows what is wrong but is not a good instructor. You hear Haney say something and I think, "That's not gonna help the guy." Haney says "Don't do this" and believes the student will perform a correct swing by simply not doing it and making two turns.... Was anyone else thinking, maybe the student isn't getting on the front foot?" You can say don't do this or that, but after  5-6 swings, you should be able to analyze why it's not working for the student and give the student assistance -- a feeling, a method, ie, instruction....

If you're thinking, "They can't possibly be showing what Haney teaches", there is a pattern here. If you watched parts of Barkley, Romano, and Rush, the type of instruction is the same -- it's not helpful.

It's laughable that people think Hank Haney is not a good golf teacher. Absolutely laughable. Tiger Woods and others always choose poor teachers for themselves. They love to blow their money and their golf games for the heck of it. Tiger won 6 majors with Haney as his coach.

Also, judging a teacher on sound bites from a golf entertainment show may not be the best idea. I'm sure there are hours of instruction we do not get to see on the show.

[bkoguy07]

Originally Posted by MSchott

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

I guess the third installment came around - saw part of it while working. It seems the way it has progressed is that Rush is egotistical, arrogant, loud, and defensive whereas Haney knows what is wrong but is not a good instructor. You hear Haney say something and I think, "That's not gonna help the guy." Haney says "Don't do this" and believes the student will perform a correct swing by simply not doing it and making two turns.... Was anyone else thinking, maybe the student isn't getting on the front foot?" You can say don't do this or that, but after  5-6 swings, you should be able to analyze why it's not working for the student and give the student assistance -- a feeling, a method, ie, instruction....

If you're thinking, "They can't possibly be showing what Haney teaches", there is a pattern here. If you watched parts of Barkley, Romano, and Rush, the type of instruction is the same -- it's not helpful.

It's laughable that people think Hank Haney is not a good golf teacher. Absolutely laughable. Tiger Woods and others always choose poor teachers for themselves. They love to blow their money and their golf games for the heck of it. Tiger won 6 majors with Haney as his coach.

Also, judging a teacher on sound bites from a golf entertainment show may not be the best idea. I'm sure there are hours of instruction we do not get to see on the show.

True its possible.  But I'm pretty sure that when you coach some of the best talent in the world, it's hard to look bad.  Not saying Haney is a good/bad head coach because honestly I don't know.  These are some of those most coachable / talented golfers in the world so I'm not sure exactly how good the coachs are.. but from the first 2 seasons, they didnt seem to improve much.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by MSchott

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

I guess the third installment came around - saw part of it while working. It seems the way it has progressed is that Rush is egotistical, arrogant, loud, and defensive whereas Haney knows what is wrong but is not a good instructor. You hear Haney say something and I think, "That's not gonna help the guy." Haney says "Don't do this" and believes the student will perform a correct swing by simply not doing it and making two turns.... Was anyone else thinking, maybe the student isn't getting on the front foot?" You can say don't do this or that, but after  5-6 swings, you should be able to analyze why it's not working for the student and give the student assistance -- a feeling, a method, ie, instruction....

If you're thinking, "They can't possibly be showing what Haney teaches", there is a pattern here. If you watched parts of Barkley, Romano, and Rush, the type of instruction is the same -- it's not helpful.

It's laughable that people think Hank Haney is not a good golf teacher. Absolutely laughable. Tiger Woods and others always choose poor teachers for themselves. They love to blow their money and their golf games for the heck of it. Tiger won 6 majors with Haney as his coach.

Also, judging a teacher on sound bites from a golf entertainment show may not be the best idea. I'm sure there are hours of instruction we do not get to see on the show.

It is laughable. I'm sure Hank laughs all the way to the bank.

From what I've seen at Hank's Current Ranch and from standing by while he gave lessons at his former Ranch (1995-2002), Hank knows what is wrong with the swing and he knows what he wants to correct (according to his vision) but he is not good (it seems) at communicating how to improve the swing. (I'm trying to be diplomatic)

For example, I'll use the last show, which I caught before Torrey Pines yesterday. Hank told Rush to not hit a lie board he had placed behind the ball. But ... as one can see from the show, telling someone to miss a board is not the whole of instruction. Once you watch the student repeatedly hit the board, you can see from his swing, what thought, feeling, act,  the student needs in order to not hit the board. I don't think Hank is great at communicating the feeling or physical act needed in order to not hit the board.

I think that is a consistent theme for the past shows, too.

If you want to know what is wrong with your swing, you might go to Hank. If you want to correct what is wrong with your swing, you might opt for another instructor.

I know he has schools and such -- But I tend to think his reputation is greater than the substance he offers. I say that after being taught by a couple of his top instructors in the mid-90's. I say this hesitantly, because I stuck with his instructors for about 10 years before going elsewhere. His method may work for some people, but I will tell you that if you brought up his name in the DFW area from the 90's to the early 00's -- you got a lot of people biting their tongues. The others said negative things. For one reason or another, many seemed to have issues with him -- even those that were instructed by Haney personally. I did not hear anything good about Hank, other than those who were currently paying a Haney instructor. His worldwide reputation is much greater than his local reputation.

I never had one of their instructors say "this is our overall method, this is what sets us apart, these are basics." In fact, they seem to ignore the basics of the swing to focus on positions. It's as if they don't want the student to know the basics -- Hank's method is a different method. They will give solutions to solve a  problems and tell you to do the complete opposite of what action they're trying to make disappear -- this results in an over-exaggeration of the corrective action -- when the student starts doing the over-exaggeration, they sometimes forget to correct it -- whoops!  When I got out of there after 10 years, I had a lot of "do this, don't do that, rotate your arms, swing to right field, turn back of left wrist to target," but no overriding philosophy/theme or general basics. The instructors did not communicate enough detail and did not seem knowledgeable when questions were asked ("don't worry about that") -- if they were knowledgeable, I guess they were not allowed to show their knowledge. I assume they were told to stick to a method. So -- no, I don't base my comments purely on a tv show.

Hey, you can say what you think about a tv show. Believe what you want. That's great.  But to say a comment is laughable when someone makes a cogent remark based on an observation over three similar shows, think before criticizing. The poster might have a valid point. I offer the comments for discussion. But to attack a poster is to take a page out of Rush's book. Don't discuss the issue -- attack the messenger. Let's be better than that.

[LongballGer]

I´m not buying that. It´s pretty safe to say that the vast majority of tour players don´t know much about the golf swing. They´re like birds that can fly, but they don´t have a clue about aerodynamics. I doubt Tiger knows much about the golf swing. Playing the game and teaching it are as different as soccer is to curling. Just like in sales, success doesn´t depend nearly as much on what you know or how good you are, but it´s all about how well you market yourself and who you know.

Just look at Leadbetter, Kostis etc... I´d argue that they don´t know the proper ball flight laws and a typical lesson with them would consist of advice like "keep your head down" and "you got a little quick on that one" along with some motivational words and a couple of lame jokes and yet they are regarded as "the world´s best teachers".

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSchott

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

I guess the third installment came around - saw part of it while working. It seems the way it has progressed is that Rush is egotistical, arrogant, loud, and defensive whereas Haney knows what is wrong but is not a good instructor. You hear Haney say something and I think, "That's not gonna help the guy." Haney says "Don't do this" and believes the student will perform a correct swing by simply not doing it and making two turns.... Was anyone else thinking, maybe the student isn't getting on the front foot?" You can say don't do this or that, but after  5-6 swings, you should be able to analyze why it's not working for the student and give the student assistance -- a feeling, a method, ie, instruction....

If you're thinking, "They can't possibly be showing what Haney teaches", there is a pattern here. If you watched parts of Barkley, Romano, and Rush, the type of instruction is the same -- it's not helpful.

It's laughable that people think Hank Haney is not a good golf teacher. Absolutely laughable. Tiger Woods and others always choose poor teachers for themselves. They love to blow their money and their golf games for the heck of it. Tiger won 6 majors with Haney as his coach.

Also, judging a teacher on sound bites from a golf entertainment show may not be the best idea. I'm sure there are hours of instruction we do not get to see on the show.

True its possible.  But I'm pretty sure that when you coach some of the best talent in the world, it's hard to look bad.  Not saying Haney is a good/bad head coach because honestly I don't know.  These are some of those most coachable / talented golfers in the world so I'm not sure exactly how good the coachs are.. but from the first 2 seasons, they didnt seem to improve much.

[ohiolefty]

Hank is a goofball and, by my observation (Tiger's swing, shows, what I've seen of his instructional videos and discussions etc.) not someone who I would recommend to a friend who's having problems with his golf game.

Butch Harmon teaches a swing I'm not enamored of, but I wouldn't be sheepish about sending a friend to him. My reasoning is simple on that point.

However, all this talk about Hank's instruction (or anyone else's) being less valid because they're not discussing science and ball-flight laws at every turn is just silly. For most people, particularly when they're at a point where they're really in the weeds with ANYTHING they're trying to do (especially golf which is so mental!) you have to build skills by introduction and mastery of simple concepts first. I'm a teacher, so I understand this intrinsically. If a kid is flunking algebra because they don't know their times tables (this happens, by the way) one wouldn't rectify the situation by teaching them calculus. You're going to experience, on the part of the pupil, failure followed by shut down.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by ohiolefty

However, all this talk about Hank's instruction (or anyone else's) being less valid because they're not discussing science and ball-flight laws at every turn is just silly. For most people, particularly when they're at a point where they're really in the weeds with ANYTHING they're trying to do (especially golf which is so mental!) you have to build skills by introduction and mastery of simple concepts first. I'm a teacher, so I understand this intrinsically. If a kid is flunking algebra because they don't know their times tables (this happens, by the way) one wouldn't rectify the situation by teaching them calculus. You're going to experience, on the part of the pupil, failure followed by shut down.

I don't think anyone's asking for a dissertation on science. I think people are saying that Hank Haney may not even KNOW the ball flight laws and this informs (or sidetracks) his ability to teach. Haney wants a "loop" in the swing when, by definition, a loop is force exerted off-the-plane and thus less efficient.

I think - or at least the way I've read the posts - people are saying that Hank doesn't necessarily even know the science, not that he should share the science with Rush (or whomever).

For example, we use the board behind the ball thing as well... but we tell the student what piece they're working on (one of two things there: weight farther forward or maintaining the flying wedge). Rush, try as he might, couldn't seem to miss a really thin board several inches behind the ball because he didn't know "the trick." And from what we saw, Hank never told him "the trick".

[Old1964]

I'm thinking that Rush should cheat on Hank.

Getting some lessons elsewhere may be his only hope to show tremendous improvement.

[plugged]

Quote:

Rush, try as he might, couldn't seem to miss a really thin board several inches behind the ball because he didn't know "the trick." And from what we saw, Hank never told him "the trick".

The sole purpose of The Haney Project is to entertain the audience, nothing else.  Therefore, wasting time showing us the detailed golf instruction that Rush is receiving would distract from the shots of Rush expressing frustration juxtaposed with Hank expressing frustration with interludes of short interview segments and Hank's wife modeling.  You know, the really important stuff.

I refuse to believe Hank doesn't know how to analyze, teach, and remedy the basic flaws in Rush's, or anyone else's golf swing.  I have read Hank's book and it is clear IMO that he understands very well why the ball goes where it goes.  In fact, this is one of the fundamental points he makes in his book, i.e., that it is vitally important to look at the ball flight first and work backwards from there to understand what is happening in the swing.  The fact that we are not seeing his detailed instruction tells me that the producers of the show think that the average viewer does not tune into the show to receive even the slightest bit of information about a golf swing and therefore consider this information irrelevant.  The other thing going on here is that Rush is one of the worst students a golf instructor could possibly have (this coming from a Rush fan).  His arrogance won't let him listen to what he is being told to do and his dedication as evidenced by his lack of practice is pathetic.

[B-Con]

I've read Haney's book and I was left a little confused as to whether he understood the ball flight laws properly. He said something that indicated "yes", and some that suggested "no". Regardless, he knows how to diagnose a swing. His entire philosophy is that he likes to work backwards from impact and figure out what went wrong -- that's how his entire book is themed and it seems to do a good job of it. My guess is that he knows how to help Rush, and if it doesn't look like it on the show (I don't watch it so I don't know) then that's intentional editing.

[bkoguy07]

Man rush really seems to be improving!  I'm excited to see the next episode lol

[Parker0065]

But surely no one here would be accusing Hank of not knowing basic ball flight characteristics unless it would be out of pure jealousy or ignorance! It's public knowledge that the show is only 30 minutes long but the actual instruction time with Hank and his student is much longer. It is obvious that TGC has made this show more about personalities than real golf instruction, so it would seem pretty ignorant to judge Haney on his golf knowledge based on how TGC presents the show!

If you want to make a honest assesment of what kind of instructor Haney is, go take a lesson from him and report back!

[Zeph]

But surely no one here would be accusing Hank of not knowing basic ball flight characteristics unless it would be out of pure jealousy or ignorance!

I would. [quote name="Hank Haney on TGC"]I'm gonna give you a tip, that's gonna help with the most common mistake that there is in golf. And that is slicing to the right. 90% of the people that play golf slice to the right, and there is only one cause for it. The clubface when you hit the ball, is open at impact.[/quote]

[MSchott]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plugged

Quote:

Rush, try as he might, couldn't seem to miss a really thin board several inches behind the ball because he didn't know "the trick." And from what we saw, Hank never told him "the trick".

The sole purpose of The Haney Project is to entertain the audience, nothing else.  Therefore, wasting time showing us the detailed golf instruction that Rush is receiving would distract from the shots of Rush expressing frustration juxtaposed with Hank expressing frustration with interludes of short interview segments and Hank's wife modeling.  You know, the really important stuff.

I refuse to believe Hank doesn't know how to analyze, teach, and remedy the basic flaws in Rush's, or anyone else's golf swing.  I have read Hank's book and it is clear IMO that he understands very well why the ball goes where it goes.  In fact, this is one of the fundamental points he makes in his book, i.e., that it is vitally important to look at the ball flight first and work backwards from there to understand what is happening in the swing.  The fact that we are not seeing his detailed instruction tells me that the producers of the show think that the average viewer does not tune into the show to receive even the slightest bit of information about a golf swing and therefore consider this information irrelevant.  The other thing going on here is that Rush is one of the worst students a golf instructor could possibly have (this coming from a Rush fan).  His arrogance won't let him listen to what he is being told to do and his dedication as evidenced by his lack of practice is pathetic.

I agree completely. Thank you.

[BigMikey]

I like the show and got a lot of respect for both parties.  Both are extremely successful individuals, make the $$$ and are or have been at the peak of their profession.  That's something some of the golf professionals and instructors in this forum will never experience.  The show has never really been about golf lessons, it's always just a spectacle to draw ratings and I'm sure when it's done this will be the best season for people tuning in.  I really wish there was another golf network that actually had interesting shows.  Now that there with NBC it will only start to suck more.

[Todd Ruggere]

I dont really like the show that much