2010 PGA Championship

[Range King]

Not blaming the rule, it's obviously his fault. I'm saying I don't agree with the rule because he gains no advantage.

How do you know that? I definitely prefer grounding the club before I take my swing.

Edit: Anyway, I understand your argument, but I disagree with it. We can't have a rule, where we have to decide everytime if the player had an advantage or not before we apply it.

[JWL1957]

Not blaming the rule, it's obviously his fault. I'm saying I don't agree with the rule because he gains no advantage.

Not to argue..... but he might have. He could have recieved some feedback of the texture/firmness of the ground that the ball was sitting on in the bunker. I still feel bad for the guy because during earlier rounds he might have been thinking clearer and and questioned his situation. I can only imagine that he must have had a million things going through his mind at the moment. I hope he can shrug this off.

[JWL1957]

Regardless of what happened yesterday, I have become a DJ fan. After his "crash and burn" at the US Open, he showed that he still has the fight in his belly. He played great. Congrats DJ !

[Cornbread]

Both John and the PGA are at fault here.
Does the PGA allow patrons to swim in lakes on the course? NO. So why allow them to stand in and trample Bunkers?
Did the PGA insure the crowd was removed from the shot location? Again, No. ?
Did Johnson's caddy do his job? No. In fact, did you notice that CBS showed the caddy leave the scene and go stand in with the partons 40 yards in front of the shot? At the time I didn't understand why they were showing this. CBS knew this was about to happen... and it made for excellent ratings and highlights.

[BruceMGF]

Both John and the PGA are at fault here.

Who's John?

[billysandy]

All in all IF DJ made that putt on 18 he would have been the best player of the week regardless of what the rules officials thought. It's obvious he gained no advantage. Rules like that are stupid and are only in place because it would be too hard to make a rule stating "club cannot be grounded if it affects the lie" because determining whether it affected the lie or not would be a huge hassle. So they assume any club touching the sand affects the lie.

So do you honestly think that people taking practice swings in bunkers should be ok? The whole thing about bunkers being hazards is that you don't know how the ball will react coming out of the sand, or how the club will travel through the sand.

[gators13]

There are

yeah, cause you know more than a tour player

[stianvm]

yeah, cause you know more than a tour player

If not everybody, atleast more than Johnson.

[Zeph]

Both John and the PGA are at fault here.

What about the crowd standing in the grass? They trample it down and can give the player a very good lie compared to if they hadn't been there. Nobody is complaining then. The crowd is all over the course, and on one with 1200 bunkers, it's inevitable that they wander into those too. The lie was perfect for Dustin, so the fact that the crowd had been standing in the bunker all day didn't matter. Remove the crowd from the shot location, what for? The players always hits the ball with a surrounding gallery if they hit it wide like that, into the crowds.

What if a bunker is full of leaves because of wind, should they be allowed to ground it because they might not recognize it being a bunker? The PGA had made it very clear that the crowd would be standing in the bunkers, that they might not look like bunkers anymore, but that this did not change the fact that they are indeed bunkers. The PGA did nothing wrong.

[Acropo]

Agree this was the most exciting Major this year. So sorry for Johnson and it does seem harsh but the rules is the rules. Mark Roe cost himself a shot at the British Open a few years ago when he signed for an incorrect score - the total wasn't wrong, put him 2nd and just a shot back (IIRC) but he'd juxtaposed two hole scores - he signed for higher on one than actually played and lower on the other. DQ'd, out. Shame. Ben Curtis won.

Also, so sorry for Watney. The triple-bogey put him out of it - and it was probably caused by the distraction of a camera going off during his downswing. He'd played himself out in the first three holes then got back, then that happened. I expect he lost interest at that point. Great intestinal fortitude by Johnson to come back in that way after Pebble.

Gutted for Rory but one day those shaved putts will all go in and he'll run away with it. Nice win for iceman Kaymer. The putt on 18 in regulation was superb. those of us familiar with him from the European Tour know that he is actually quite a nice guy, lively, too - but on the course he is all focus.

Anyway, glad I'm able to get my breath back!

[jamo]

The PGA did nothing wrong.

They might not have done anythings wrong, but that doesn't mean they can't make it better for 2015 and declare those bunkers that are outside the ropes waste areas.

[Where's the Cart Girl?]

This is a bit of a hypothetical, but one of the criticisms falling on the PGA over this has been - where was the rules official? Why did he not tell him?

PGA said he should've been walking with DJ because Nick Watney was out of contention and preventing him from making a mistake.. I don't buy that because there are a myriad of rules officials watching the same coverage we are and the first person who noticed could've radioed the guy walkin with the group to get on that. So, "We don't want the rules officials to hover over the player all the time." is garbage.

My question though is this - Someone in the clubhouse notices, radios the walking official, who then goes and tells Dustin, "Heads-up, that's a bunker, don't ground your club." Is he then deemed to have received outside advice and would he be penalized anyway?

I heard no mention of this being a motive for why he wasn't informed ahead of time, but with enough golf-educated people NOT trying to save a par to win a major championship watching this I'm sure that people noticed before he even got near his golf ball.

[MSDOGS1976]

Both John and the PGA are at fault here.

This I agree with. The major thing that made it confusing for DJ was all the patrons standing in the bunker. You just don't see that anywhere. But the caddy should have questioned where he was and Johnson as well. And the rules official should have intervened. On TGC a USGA official said they would have if they had been involved. But it was the PGA and they chose not to have an official get involved unless the player made a request.

I hate it for DJ, but nothing will change it at this point.

[iacas]

Does the PGA allow patrons to swim in lakes on the course? NO. So why allow them to stand in and trample Bunkers?

They had to stand somewhere.

Did the PGA insure the crowd was removed from the shot location? Again, No. ?

Why should they? "John" is the one who hit the ball there (seriously, "John" dude?). He can ask people to move back. It was clearly very sandy where his ball was.

CBS knew this was about to happen... and it made for excellent ratings and highlights.

CBS had no clue. The guys in the media tent did though.

They might not have done anythings wrong, but that doesn't mean they can't make it better for 2015 and declare those bunkers that are outside the ropes waste areas.

That completely impractical. Many of the bunkers, for example, span the ropes AND why should someone who hits the ball FARTHER away from the fairway get the advantage of grounding his club? Declaring them all bunkers makes the most sense, from both a practicality and a "fairness" standpoint.

This is a bit of a hypothetical, but one of the criticisms falling on the PGA over this has been - where was the rules official? Why did he not tell him?

Not his job. They tend not to speak unless spoken to.

My question though is this - Someone in the clubhouse notices, radios the walking official, who then goes and tells Dustin, "Heads-up, that's a bunker, don't ground your club." Is he then deemed to have received outside advice and would he be penalized anyway?

That's not advice, no.

[albatross]

"They had to stand somewhere."

Totally wrong answer. Not in a hazard they don't. If there isn't room for patrons to stand somewhere that isn't an area deemed a hazard then you either make it a waste bunker or you play a major at a course that has room for patrons to not be standing in a hazard while a player hits a shot. What other venue do you see 600 people standing in the bunker with a player? You don't . It's unacceptable.

Dustin should have known better but it would have been very obvious it was a bunker if you remove those 600 people from it.

[sean_miller]

I just skimmed the last couple pages, so sorry if this has been touched on, but llike DJ said himself, at least he didn't make that par putt. That would have been even more devastating.

It was a very unfortunate ending considering all the clutch birdies he'd just made to get in the lead. Regardless, speaking of clutch - how about Kaymer's composure on his final approach. He shuts it down as he's about to start his downswing, glares in the direction of the guilty party then hits it pure to pin high. That was cool.

[JWL1957]

All in all......... it was a great tournament until the fiasco at the end. I thought it was the most exciting PGA in many years.

[iacas]

"They had to stand somewhere." Totally wrong answer. Not in a hazard they don't.

On

that course, you're the one who is wrong. There's no two ways about it. Either they stand in and walk through the bunkers or they fit about 1,000 spectators on the course. They built grandstands on bunkers there. Again, it's not like he got a bad lie. All he had to do was NOT ground his club. He "lucked out" until he broke the rules. And if Dustin didn't want them standing in the bunker WHILE he played the shot, he could have had them move.

If there isn't room for patrons to stand somewhere that isn't an area deemed a hazard then you either make it a waste bunker or you play a major at a course that has room for patrons to not be standing in a hazard while a player hits a shot.

Oh bull. The PGA was perhaps the most exciting major of the year and you this thought wouldn't have occurred to you if DJ had followed the rules. Why weren't you talking about this on Thursday if it's such an issue? The answer: because Dustin violated a rule you don't think should have been a rule in hindsight. Thing is, rules aren't made in hindsight.

As for why it's not a waste bunker, that's been clearly spelled out by the PGA and others, in this thread and elsewhere, and you can disagree with their reasoning all you want, but it's more logical than yours and was the rule in place and thus the one to be obeyed.

What other venue do you see 600 people standing in the bunker with a player?

What other venue has no other place for spectators to stand? Comments about Augusta are stupid - all their bunkers are inside the ropes. Same anywhere else. That's not the case here or you'd literally not have a place for fans to stand. They could watch the action on 1 tee and 18 green and that'd be about it.

Dustin should have known better but it would have been very obvious it was a bunker if you remove those 600 people from it.

Here's a clue - IT WAS SAND. It wasn't dirt. It wasn't ground up concrete. It wasn't paved. It wasn't all grassy. It sure as heck wasn't water. IT WAS SAND. Gee, when i see sand on a golf course, it's either filled in a divot (that wasn't a divot), it's topdressing (obviously not that), ground under repair (whee! free drop! ask the rules official!), or it's a bunker.

Again, let that sink in - HIS BALL WAS SITTING ON SAND. There was a whole bunch of sand around his ball. Jim Nantz called a bunker right away. Other players yelled at DJ that it was a bunker through the TV. Media guys knew he broke the rule as soon as he did it.

It was a very unfortunate ending considering all the clutch birdies he'd just made to get in the lead. Regardless, speaking of clutch - how about Kaymer's composure on his final approach. He shuts it down as he's about to start his downswing, glares in the direction of the guilty party then hits it pure to pin high. That was cool.

Very cool. Almost as cool as Bubba's 6I into the water 40 yards short was bad. What a terrible shot.