2010 PGA Championship

[sean_miller]

Said birdie also told me that every professional caddy out there has taken note and will be extra vigilant . . .

Said birdie can predict the behaviour of people who carry a golf bag for a living? Ian Woosnam is laughing at sad birdie.

[Chas]

Said birdie also pointed out that golfers need to remember that caddys are notoriously forgetful and don't always earn their percentage.

This birdie has flown over a lot of tracks and knows what he's tweeting about .......

[PooN]

The rules were posted in many places for the players/caddies to see before and during the event. The rules stated that if there is sand on the course, it is played as a bunker (no waste areas). When DJ looked down at his ball it was CLEARLY in sand. 'Nuff said.




Rule as posted in black & white:
"All areas of the course that were designed and built as sand bunkers will be played as bunkers (hazards), whether or not they have been raked. This will mean that many bunkers positioned outside the ropes, as well as some areas of bunkers inside the ropes, close to the rope line, will likely include numerous footprints, heel prints and tire tracks during play of the championship. Such irregularities of surface are part of the game and no free relief will be available from these conditions."

[max power]

The rules were posted in many places for the players/caddies to see before and during the event. The rules stated that if there is sand on the course, it is played as a bunker (no waste areas). When DJ looked down at his ball it was CLEARLY in sand. 'Nuff said.

This is the truth. I was sick when I realized Johnson wouldn't be in the playoff, 'cause how can you not feel bad for a guy in that situation.

But , he'd been given the rules, the rules were the same for everyone, he'd played under those rules for 71 holes. We can complain about the number of bunkers-but this is the course, everyone entered played by the same rules. It's his job to know the rules. He plays golf and makes millions and needs to know the rules. I understand his mistake, tremendous pressure and tunnel vision and the like. But the buck stops with the golfer.

[Cornbread]

I'll say it again... isn't it odd that Fans don't trample Augusta National this way... nor do they throw trash & bottles on the ground like they did at the WS & the PGA (this was an event ran by the PGA, not a Club... such as Augusta). Thus, the PGA is partially responsible for this DJ mess from yesterday.

[max power]

I'll say it again... isn't it odd that Fans don't trample Augusta National this way... nor do they throw trash & bottles on the ground like they did at the WS & the PGA (this was an event ran by the PGA, not a Club... such as Augusta). Thus, the PGA is partially responsible for this DJ mess from yesterday.

Fine. Augusta is nicer. The fans behave better. Neither has anything to do with Johnson yesterday. He was on sand, and:

"All areas of the course that were designed and built as sand bunkers will be played as bunkers (hazards), whether or not they have been raked. This will mean that many bunkers positioned outside the ropes, as well as some areas of bunkers inside the ropes, close to the rope line, will likely include numerous footprints, heel prints and tire tracks during play of the championship. Such irregularities of surface are part of the game and no free relief will be available from these conditions." That's really all there is to it. He hit his drive a mile off the fairway, into sand. Should have asked, or not grounded his club just to be safe.

[Plox]

^ Should he have wiped up the mess afterwards, too? Maybe he should have scuffed the ground a few times further back, create a few bunkers for the other groups.

[Elvisliveson]

^ Should he have wiped up the mess afterwards, too? Maybe he should have scuffed the ground a few times further back, create a few bunkers for the other groups.

That's the real reason DJ was penalized. He forgoit the local rule that it is the last group's responsibility to pick up the empty beer bottles.

[albatross]

My last question in this thread and I'm done. After watching all the coverage tonight as well, I haven't heard a SINGLE respected member of the golf community (player, former player, analyst or commentator) say that they think spectators should have been in that bunker.

The question is: What professional player or commentator have you heard that agrees that patrons should have been standing in a hazard on the 72nd hole of a major? Not that consensus makes it correct but I can give you many who said it was ridiculous so give me some that say it is not. Give me one that I can read or watch tonight.

Everyone agrees the penalty was warranted and it was the right call under the circumstances.

Tonight I heard and read at least 20 comments from Tour Players and writers and they all agreed that the PGA lost control of the crowd. Just got done watching Golf Central and John Feinstein, Charlie Reimer (he's a douche I know), Stuart Cink, Appleby, Immelman, along with everyone else that spoke out yesterday including Poulter, Watney, Faldo, Fehrehty ALL agree fans should not have been permitted to sit and stand in a hazard at a major championship.

Sorry but their opinions count more than ours whether you like it or not when it comes to professional golf. The PGA messed up. Not by calling the penalty but by not controlling the crowd.

[iacas]

My argument is simply that it was unprofessional and unacceptable to allow patrons to stand in a sand trap with a player as he's taking a shot.

If that's what you mean (I thought you were saying people shouldn't have been allowed in them at all). If that's the case, then duh - Dustin Johnson could have asked them to move back more.

Frankly I see no difference between the crowd forming that alleyway whether Dustin was in a bunker or in the rough. No difference at all. He was in a bunker, so he couldn't ground his club. What's a guy 10 feet to his right going to cause him to do - not ground his club? How's that work, exactly? Jim Nantz knew it was a bunker when he saw it on TV. You're telling me Dustin Johnson didn't know - despite his ball being obviously in and on sand , that he was in a bunker because the people 10 feet away from his ball obscured his vision? Nope. He made a dunderheaded mistake, grounded his club repeatedly, and was penalized. If he wanted the crowd moved back he could have asked them to move back. I asked you to link to some examples of articles where people have said it was unprofessional/unacceptable to allow spectators to stand there, and you've not chosen to do so.

If the area is deemed a hazard, the player should have the opportunity to view the area his ball is in without trying to have his caddy move over 1000 people.

He didn't even try. He got the chute and hit the shot.

There were children playing and making sand castles in the bunkers near the eighth green.

Bunkers that weren't really in play. Dustin had a good lie. You're confusing the issue - is it that he had a bad lie because people were in the bunker prior to his shot or is it that people were in the bunker during his shot and they somehow prevented him from seeing that his really sandy lie was actually in a bunker?

I'm sure someone will but you're wrong if you think this is ok.

Yeah, our opinions are wrong. You're right. Why even bother responding? After all, you've been totally clear. Dustin's ball was in a sand castle, and he was penalized because he didn't help a little girl build a moat. Or something like that...

We are talking about patrons having access to hazards all week long and then after they have been destroyed still deeming them hazards.

Again, he had a good lie, and you keep changing your argument. Do you have a problem with:

a) people walking in the bunkers all week b) people being in the bunker as Dustin was preparing to hit c) both Which is it? You've made statements like "Not a, but b" and then you've turned around and made "a" statements too.

I realize they can't change the status of a hazard once the tournament has started but they should have realized that thousand of people would be trampling these hazards and deemed some of them waste bunkers.

Nah. They're bunkers. They said they're bunkers and they're to be played as bunkers. Again, it's not like Dustin got a bad lie. This is another of your "a" type statements.

You seem to be the main one focusing on this particular argument, and you seem to like to call people "wrong" just because they don't agree with you. DJ could easily have waited and asked the marshals to clear out more space around him, but he didn't.

What zeg said.

The rest of your argument is so poor I'm not going to waste time picking it apart.

Sign #1 that you've lost: you resort to tactics like that. C'mon, seriously?

I think his argument was good. And you don't even seem to be sure what your argument is, albatross.

My last question in this thread and I'm done. After watching all the coverage tonight as well, I haven't heard a SINGLE respected member of the golf community (player, former player, analyst or commentator) say that they think spectators should have been in that bunker.

They're not saying anything because it's a non-issue. I could also point out that nobody is pointing out that Dustin Johnson was using a ball marked with a green Sharpie (or whatever), and maybe that prevented him from noticing that all of the sand his ball was sitting in may have been a bunker.

The fact remains that if Dustin had wanted to move the crowd before and during his shot, he could have. He chose not to. I'm done, albatross. I'm sorry this ruined the PGA for you. I think it was a great tournament marred by Dustin's boneheadedness at the end. Maybe he'll learn.

[whatwhatwhat]

Boneheadedness is a little harsh, final hole of a major championship needing a par to win, and the bunker didnt exactly look like a bunker so in the most intense pressure with the galleries right up his ass, it wasnt exactly a difficult mistake to make.

In my view he should fire his caddy right now, a caddy plays a major role in looking after the player in situations like this, instead he was standing 50 yards away when dustin was lining up, a good caddy would have keep his head a little better.

The only complaint towards the pga I have is the marshalling, it truly was non-existent, I know you can say the player could have asked them to move but there was a good 3000 of them and players shouldnt be responsable for orcestrating the galleries, I dont think anyone can disagree with that, he should have been given more space.

But as always the pga championship lived up to be the most exciting major of the year by far which in my opinion it always does, brillant championship, drama until the end.

[iacas]

New Rule

Since we have another thread devoted entirely to Dustin Johnson's penalty, no more comments of that type in this thread.

Talk about Bubba, Martin Kaymer, Steve Elkington, DJ (except the bunker ruling stuff), Watney... Tiger, Phil... whatever.

[DarkPrince]

Since I finally have a stable internet connection now that I'm home, I actually got all of my pictures uploaded FINALLY...sorry if there are any doubles for some reason though:

Monday Practice Round

Tuesday Practice Round

Wednesday Practice Round

[BonoVox]

New Rule

Oh man Elkington. about 6 inches from being in that playoff. Talk about a great shot that was not rewarded and penalized him big time. I can only say the wind must have died or changed big time on him before his shot. Nobody was deep on that green until his group came in. Wow, it might have been just an inch before that ball fell into the abyss. Maybe a revolution on it. OUCH!

[zeg]

Oh man Elkington. about 6 inches from being in that playoff. Talk about a great shot that was not rewarded and penalized him big time. I can only say the wind must have died or changed big time on him before his shot. Nobody was deep on that green until his group came in. Wow, it might have been just an inch before that ball fell into the abyss. Maybe a revolution on it. OUCH!

Didn't he have a short putt for eagle after a pair of career shots a hole or two before that? Or am I thinking of someone else... but I think he had a few different ways to have won that tournament outright, not to mention be in the playoff. I think he's going to be replaying some of those shots over and over in his mind....

[BonoVox]

Didn't he have a short putt for eagle after a pair of career shots a hole or two before that? Or am I thinking of someone else... but I think he had a few different ways to have won that tournament outright, not to mention be in the playoff. I think he's going to be replaying some of those shots over and over in his mind....

A LOT of career shots were not converted into pay dirt on Sunday by a bunch of players that were relevant on the leader board. But tied for the lead at -11 as he hit his tee shot on a par 3 number 17, you can make a direct correlation.

Sorry you can only go so far back in time with 70 plus players on the course. That is what the last few holes of a major are about. You set the stage for maybe the back 9 if you have a dual with a couple of players. When you have 5 or 6 in the hunt every hole adds to the story line which does not develop until 17/18 are approached.

[Stretch]

I was really hoping Elk and Bubba would end up in the playoff together. There's a bit of history between those two.

[zeg]

A LOT of career shots were not converted into pay dirt on Sunday by a bunch of players that were relevant on the leader board. But tied for the lead at -11 as he hit his tee shot on a par 3 number 17, you can make a direct correlation.

Dude, I'm agreeing with you about 17. But I'd say missing a makeable putt (don't recall exactly, but it was not terribly long) for eagle on the 16th is at least a similar throwaway feeling. So I'm not sure what you mean about "only go back so far in time," since it's the same guy, one hole earlier.