Why should I fastplay?

[Rexx]

Not sure if OP is joking or not, but two reasons the pros take a while:

- The pros are playing for something meaningful, we're not.
- The conditions (distance, wind, break, etc) actually affect their results. For most amateurs, approximations done quickly are more than sufficient as the odds of executing the exact desired shot is low anyways -- a misread putt is probably as likely to help as hurt.

Not sure how being duped into buying equipment by advertisers fits into this, though.

[JWL1957]

If course marshalls were instructed to recognize and enforce reasonable play time, things might be a little better at some courses. I have been to a few courses where the marshalls were on our asses when we were the ones waiting on every shot. I have been to other courses that were really backed up and the marshalls were mostly ball hunting.

[kafka01]

Sorry, but defending the pros for playing slow is flat out silly. That´s exactly one of the reasons this whole slowplay issue exists, with a couple other reasons that stack up on it.

Saying that when i play in a tournament i´m not playing for something meaningful, just because i dont play for 1 million dollar price check, really? Well for me its meaningful - i compete against the course and the other players and i want to win - i dont know what could be more meaningful. Now look at all the college golfers - they play for as much as we do in our local tourneys, but play just as slow as the pros. How can you defend this? And when they rise through the ranks and keep playing on the big tours, they just keep playing as slow as they learned it. This is a problem that starts from ground up.

We as amateurs actually have to deal with a lot more than the pros. Every once in a while you see somebody looking for a ball on tour, but 99 % of the times they have forecaddies that help him with this. They dont need to rake bunkers, replace divots, all they have to do is hit the ball after they came to a conclusion about distance considering factors like wind and slope. Now how difficult and timeconsuming is this? They dont play readygolf most of the time, but we are supposed to?

You asked how equipment fits into this - really simple, the PGA Tour and the manufactures are proud to have established a connection between weekend hacks and Pro Golfers over the decades, on a basis that everything they play, we can buy ourselves and get the same results. There is nothing wrong with that, really. I doubt you could ever identify yourself with Michael Schuhmacher, since you will never be able to buy a Formula One Car and race it, but thats one of the things that makes Golf so great. But thats exactly what induces people to slowplay. Have you ever watched people on the driving range closley - did some of the preshot routines or habits resemble ones of famous pros? I sure you´ve it. It doesnt stop with equipment identification, it goes on to emulating habits and of course it translates into a similiar pace of play than you see on tour.

So - make the pros play faster, and the amateurs will follow, really as simple as that, because we emulate what they do quite a bit!

[sean_miller]

Sorry, but defending the pros for playing slow is flat out silly.

They typically play in groups of 2 at approximately 2 hours per 9 holes. That seems to work with the television broadcasts. What would you prefer - a 3 hour round followed by an hour of Kostis, Faldo and Miller swing analyses?

[golfro]

Sorry, but defending the pros for playing slow is flat out silly. That´s exactly one of the reasons this whole slowplay issue exists, with a couple other reasons that stack up on it.

yeah unfortunately for you, nobody gives a crap about what you find to be meaningful. $1+ million on the other hand in the public eye? meaningful. thats how these people make a living. you on the other hand, do this as a hobby.

you're coming off a bit more a 10 year old complaining and nit picking now than logical unfortunately. i don't know where you golf but around here, people don't actually play that slow...atleast not to an unreasonable amount. if they're playing slow, ask that they speed up a bit. If not, call the marshal. In the mean time, have some patience and enjoy the game.

[bigoak]

play as slow as you want but don't bitch when we drive around you and skip the hole to make it up later.

[SouthernILGolfer]

If pros played too fast, how would we watch them on tv? Seriously, the courses they play on are way more difficult than ours, the groups get backed up because tournaments have so many players in them that its amazing they can even finish before it gets dark. Pros dont play slow, they're always waiting. Give them an open course and they might play 18 in like 3 hours as a 2some.

[kafka01]

i don't know where you golf but around here, people don't actually play that slow...atleast not to an unreasonable amount. if they're playing slow, ask that they speed up a bit. If not, call the marshal. In the mean time, have some patience and enjoy the game.

So you are saying slowplay has not become a problem in golf over the last years?

This whole post isnt about me or my problems - maybe i articulated it wrong - the course i play i rarely have to deal with slowplay, we dont even need tee times. The thread was supposed to look at the BIG PICTURE not somebodys individual problems - there are enough threads for this already. And if you tell me that people dont have a problem with 5-6 hour rounds, maybe you should look at the statistics, Golf in the US is on a decline for quite a bit now and maybe you should ask yourself why that is. Slowplay has become part of the problem aside from rising costs, a difficult economic environment and so on. And lets say it again - if the guys we look up to, play slow, we amateurs emulate it - and that is bad for the game of golf! And if i´m not mistaken, professional golf tours around the world have an ambition to grow the game, not harm it!

That seems to work with the television broadcasts. What would you prefer - a 3 hour round followed by an hour of Kostis, Faldo and Miller swing analyses?

I would call that pretty slow indeed. Its hard to find actual statistics on the web for play time - the PGA tour has these statistics, but they dont release them. Are you suggesting they play that slow because they try to fit it into a TV schedule?

[sean_miller]

So you are saying slowplay has not become a problem in golf over the last years?

I'm not sure 4 hours on a PGA Tour level course is especially slow. On the tracks we play - it's about average too, but we tend to take more than 70 strokes. To answer your actual question, I do feel the TV networks want the round to fit within a certain timeframe. Allow for a couple playoff holes and a speech - nothing more and certainly nothing less.

[O.B. Right]

I believe that having a limited amount of time to play a hole is part of the game of golf. I wish the PGA would put more players on the clock. I went looking for some statistics on round times and such and found this article which pretty much echoes Kafka01's statements (which I agree with).

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours...gw20080509diaz

[kafka01]

http://www.thegolfchannel.com/golf-v...26000&rsec;=298

[nevets88]

While we as amateurs may have more superficial things to deal with, I think we have a whole lot less to deal with with regards to pressure. Pros make their livelihood from playing, we don't. The pressure for those who are eking out a living or struggling to stay on tour is alot more to bear than raking the bunkers and carrying. Plus they have a camera on them. They have thousands of eyes on them live.

Pros may not play fast in the final groups, but I've heard many times of the first group out finishing in 2.5 hours, less if there's no marker.

[Rexx]

So there have been a few threads around for slowplay in the past - but where is the point in fastplaying when all the good players slowplay? Thats probably one of the reasons why they are good!

Ahhh... I see now. You aren't condoning slow play, you're blaming slow play on amateurs emulating the pros. Why didn't you just say so? I assume then the comment that "Thats probably one of the reasons why they are good!" was tongue-in-cheek, no? Because if not, you've given amateurs a reason to take as long as pros.

I do think it's understandable for the pros to be slightly slower than amateurs when playing a shot, but no way to the extent that they actually are. Folks like Sabbatini, Daly, Cabrera, Fowler, Johnson, etc. should be closer to the norm. The reason they should be slower is that every yard matters to them, because they are that accurate. Our shot dispersion is just not close enough that 1, 2 or even 5 yards probably matters much. Our ability to read a 25 foot putt is so (relatively) bad that being off a couple inches in break is as likely to help as is to hinder when we misjudge the speed or mishit the putt by 3 feet. But let's be honest, courses want faster pace of play for monetary reasons: quicker pace = more golfers = more $$$$. Some golfers want a faster pace of play because that's their personality. They aren't rushing, that's just how they're wired. Then, there are golfers wired the opposite way. It's like people that drive (autos) at different speeds, except that there are no passing lanes on the golf course... or there's that mom driving a mini-van at the front of a long line of cars.

[darkhunter139]

I think 4 hours is a reasonable time anything more seems pretty long. Today it took me and my cousin 4 hours to finish 18 but it took us about 2 and a half hours to finish the front 9 because we had a high school match in front of us. I did not mind the slow pace on the front 9 but the guy behind me was really pissing me off, he hit into us once and kept driving his cart right up to us looking impatient. We were taking our time because we had 2 groups in front of us waiting to tee off and I was not about to hit into anyone. By the 3rd hole the guy speeds passed us and then sits at the next hole waiting while we finish up. When we get there he just goes "sorry I thought it was just you guys playing slow" then he speeds away to the back 9 I guess because I did not see him again for the rest of the night.

[DBeane]

Fast play, slow play...this chat has been around for ever. I think everyone thinks that everyone else plays slow. I try and play at a rhythmic pace inside of the group I'm in. The course/other players will dictate how long the round takes. A lot of the greats were notorious slow players (Jack, Ben), however some like Watson and Trevino play very fast.

A lot of the time its gamesmanship. If your a fast play nazi, I'll slow play you to pull you out of your timing....or I've been known to pull a slow player. It all depends on whats on the table.

[walk18]

Yes. It is normal. I've been to Ireland once (was the best man in an Irish wedding, a pretty awesome experience) and want to go back for about 1000 reasons, and your comment makes it 1,001.

5 hours is NOT normal, at least not in my area, which is crowded. 4.5 for a foursome would be max. For a 2some on an open course, 3 hours or less. I guess there are exceptions though.

[StricklandPropane]

Most people still play honors golf instead of ready golf, at least that's what I see. My biggest pet peave is when you're struggling on a hole and everyone beats you to the green. Then you get to the green and are the furthest out and people look at you waiting for you to puft. A-hole, you've been standing there for a good bit now waiting for me to get on. Why should I have to rush when you clearly should be ready to putt? What were you doing all this time?

And 90% of people are faster walking than with carts. The sooner courses realize that the better.

[mdbuschsr]

My normal solo time for 18 is 3.5 hours. I played with a guy a few months ago that is a much quicker player, and we got around in just over 2.5. The amazing thing is that after the first hole or two I never felt rushed. I played last weekend, and a guy caught up to me on #6 and we played out the course together. I have never felt so rushed in my life. He was just fidgety, and seemed rushed himself. It took all of the enjoyment out of it for me.

As for playing honors golf versus playing ready golf... I was taught to play honors. When I played the 2.5 hr. round it was all ready golf. It felt just wrong to play a shot before my partner if he was away. I mentioned it to him, we talked about it and he convinced me that it was OK. I definitely agree that ready golf is the easiest way to to improve playing times. Unfortunately, there are many folks like me that were taught honors golf, and it's uncomfortable to play ready golf.