Jump to content
IGNORED

Flipping Question, This possible?


kennay92
Note: This thread is 4898 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Hi, Im wondering if its possible to flip the club yet still have your divots coming in front of the ball. Because I feel like I still flip some, yet my divots most of the time, are starting at or in front of the ball.

Thanks

:cobra: Speed ld-f 10.5 Stiff
:snake_eyes: 3 & 5 Woods
:adams:A4 3 hybrid
:bridgestone: J33 Forged Irons 4-pw
:ping: 50th Aniv. Karsten Ansr Putter56*, 60* wedges

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Yes it is.

Ogio Grom | Callaway X Hot Pro | Callaway X-Utility 3i | Mizuno MX-700 23º | Titleist Vokey SM 52.08, 58.12 | Mizuno MX-700 15º | Titleist 910 D2 9,5º | Scotty Cameron Newport 2 | Titleist Pro V1x and Taylormade Penta | Leupold GX-1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Flipping, as used here, just means you are adding loft by releasing too early. You can still hit the ball first, taking a divot after the ball. It's just that your effective loft is higher as your clubhead goes through the impact zone ahead of your hands rather than after. A five-iron, for example, is hitting the ball with an effective loft of a six-iron, rather than that of a four-iron, which would be preferable.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Any tips guys, ive worked and worked on this but still cant get it quite right.

:cobra: Speed ld-f 10.5 Stiff
:snake_eyes: 3 & 5 Woods
:adams:A4 3 hybrid
:bridgestone: J33 Forged Irons 4-pw
:ping: 50th Aniv. Karsten Ansr Putter56*, 60* wedges

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator

Yes, it's possible. You can also still "flip" post-impact.

Drills? My video wouldn't be a bad place to start. You don't need to do the pre-set forward weight part, either.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

'Tis possible, I've done it for years. I've just recently (this year) made progress, just by (mostly, it's still a work in progress) eliminating the flipping.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator

I've been working on this too. I thought I was on the right track when I got my divots ahead of the ball and videos showed hands at or slightly ahead of the ball at impact, but I chicken winged it, collapsed the elbows, I don't know how to explain it right after impact.

An SnT instructor got me to extend the arms and slide and tuck the hips and I think I'm on the right track now. For 2 weeks though, I was this close to quitting - I hit so many awful shots and shanks, but I eventually suffered through it.

This is where I kind of blame Johnny Miller and others saying that impact position is the be all and end all or maybe I misinterpreted it. You can have a good impact position but still have fundamental flaws in your swing. It least for me anyways.

I do the drill iacas mentioned and highly recommend it. Try a half swing or even a quarter swing. To me, the shorter the stroke, the easier to ingrain the feeling.

People recommended confessions of a former flipper, a Brian Manzella video. I got it and I like BM and there's good stuff in it, but I didn't really get as much out of it as I had hoped.

Try and emulate this guy:



On a more lighter note, try and look like Faxon post impact:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zynemXZaAYM

Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Another video. Starts at 0:24

Ogio Grom | Callaway X Hot Pro | Callaway X-Utility 3i | Mizuno MX-700 23º | Titleist Vokey SM 52.08, 58.12 | Mizuno MX-700 15º | Titleist 910 D2 9,5º | Scotty Cameron Newport 2 | Titleist Pro V1x and Taylormade Penta | Leupold GX-1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

They called him Flipper...Flipper...

Good drill...get a hockey stick or broom handle and put your hands 9-12 inches apart. Swing the stick. Swing with your hands closer together with the same feeling. Do this for 21 days in a row.

Cobra LTDx 10.5* | Big Tour 15.5*| Rad Tour 18.5*  | Titleist U500 4-23* | T100 5-P | Vokey SM7 50/8* F, 54/10* S, SM8 58/10* S | Scotty Cameron Squareback No. 1 | Vice Pro Plus  

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Been working on my wing/flip for ohhh...2 years now? Played with it for 5 years so I guess it takes time to fully fix. It just seems to creep back in and it's like starting over. I can't see Erik's video here at work, but if it's the flying wedge one - that has helped a lot. This year I actually made some progress, I think, because of certain drills...last year I just told myself I wasn't going to do it anymore. LOL. Yeah, that didn't work so well.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Something you can try feeling is to have the shaft and arms form a straight line long after impact. Stop like Erik does on his video.

If you look at high speed videos of guys doing it right, the left arm and shaft will create a straight line after the ball. If you flip, this line will be farther back, most of the time behind the ball. The difference can be hard to notice if you're not looking, but it can make a huge difference in the power you hit the ball with.

I may be out on a limb here, but can it not be compared to driving a car? If your focus is 2 yards in front of the car, it is harder to keep the car going smooth. You'll jerk it more sidways, like beginners often do. If you look forward, as far as you can see, your mind will create a line you can drive on, which will be smoother.

Instead of focusing on the flying wedge before impact, focusing on it after impact can make a difference on what happens before impact. That's my theory at least.
A bit like looking in front of ball instead of right at it. Moving the swing bottom slightly forward and perhaps where the left arm and shaft form a straight line.

Ogio Grom | Callaway X Hot Pro | Callaway X-Utility 3i | Mizuno MX-700 23º | Titleist Vokey SM 52.08, 58.12 | Mizuno MX-700 15º | Titleist 910 D2 9,5º | Scotty Cameron Newport 2 | Titleist Pro V1x and Taylormade Penta | Leupold GX-1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Definitely start with the small shots. If you can't do little chips, how are you going to do full swings? Does that make sense?

Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Here is what I posted about this in a previous thread:

Flipping is caused by an arm swing that gets ahead of your body movements. Learn to lead and power the swing with your body. You may want to do a search on Google for "body powered professional golf swing".
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator
Here is what I posted about this in a previous thread:

That's all well and dandy but your arms NEED to get "ahead" of your body movements.

Your arms start the backswing on the right side of your chest and finish on the left side of your chest. They need to move themselves as well - they don't need to be dragged along solely by rotational forces.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

That's all well and dandy but your arms NEED to get "ahead" of your body movements.

"Your arms need to get ahead of your body movements." Only well after impact. Momentum!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator
"Your arms need to get ahead of your body movements." Only well after impact. Momentum!

No. Not after impact - the arms need to get farther ahead of the body than they were at impact AND will have loaded across the chest on the backswing, meaning they need to go a LOT farther relative to the body.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Some pictures and graphics to demonstrate. Sitting on a crap computer without my usual software, so it's pretty simple.

First example we see a swing from birds-eye view. I've drawn lines to show the position of the hands relative to the shoulders through the swing.

Address: Can't see the hands, but somewhere around where I've drawn the lines.
Top of backswing: Left arm has crossed the chest, hands opposite back shoulder.
Halfway down: Shoulders have rotated 45-ish degrees, hands get even farther behind.
Impact: Shoulders have rotated past 0º, slightly open, hands are in front of the ball and closer to the front shoulder than the back.
Follow through: Shoulders rotated almost 90º open, left elbow fold, hands get closer to the front shoulder.

If the hands did not go faster and move a larger distance on the downswing than the shoulders, the hands would be opposite the back shoulder at impact.



A quick Paint graphic. No scientific stuff, the positions are not measured, just to demonstrate. The red eclipse and circle are the shoulders and hands at the top of the backswing, still from birds-eye view. Shoulders rotated 90º, hands opposite back shoulder. Green eclipse and circle show shoulders and hands at impact. As you can see, the hands have moved from opposite the back shoulder, to almost level with the front shoulder.



The reason for all of this is that the hands move off the chest on the backswing when the left arm cross the chest and right elbow fold. If we did not do this, but kept the hands opposite the shirt logo from address to impact, the shoulders and hands could have travelled at the same speed. But you would not have gotten a lot of power that way.

There are of course three dimensions and it's a matter of style how rotated the shoulders, hips, hands etc. are at the various positions. But nobody playing good golf does so without moving the hands off the chest on the backswing.

Ogio Grom | Callaway X Hot Pro | Callaway X-Utility 3i | Mizuno MX-700 23º | Titleist Vokey SM 52.08, 58.12 | Mizuno MX-700 15º | Titleist 910 D2 9,5º | Scotty Cameron Newport 2 | Titleist Pro V1x and Taylormade Penta | Leupold GX-1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 4898 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    • Makes sense.  Like I said, I wouldn't have been upset at their original offer either, and based on the fine print it seems like they've held up their end of the deal.  
    • If you've only had to adjust retroactively one time in 8 years and have around 5 people each year without handicaps, that's like 40-50 people total so it sounds like you're doing a pretty good job. I think your questions give enough to go off of. This might be a good way to get new people to actually post a few scores during the 6 weeks leading into the first event. Something like "New members will be eligible for tournament money once they have at least 3 posted rounds in GHIN" or something like that. If they can get 3 rounds in prior to their first event, then they're eligible. If not, they'll soon become eligible after an event or two assuming they play a little bit outside of events.
    • This is a loooooong winded narrative so if you don't like long stories, move on. 😉 Our senior club typically gets about 25 new members each year. We lose about 25 members each year for various reasons (moved to FL/AZ, disabled, dead, too expensive). Of the new members, usually 20 have an active GHIN handicap. About 5 each year do not have a GHIN handicap. When they join our club, we give each member a state association membership that includes GHIN handicapping services. We play a series of handicapped tournaments over the summer. When we sign up a new member who does not have a GHIN handicap, we attempt to give them an estimated index until they have sufficient scores posted to have an actual GHIN index.  Our first event typically is around May 15 so, in theory, a new member has about 6 weeks to post a few scores. Posting season in the Mitten starts April 1. Inevitably, several of the unhandicapped individuals seem  to either not play until the first tournament or can't figure out how to enter scores (hey, they are seniors). That situation then leads to my contacting the new member and asking a series of questions: a. Did you ever have a GHIN handicap? If yes, which State and do you recall what it was? b. Do you have an alternate handicap through a non-GHIN handicap service or a league? c. What do you think your average score was last year (for 9 or 18) d. What was your best score last year? Where did you play and which tee was used? e. What do you consider a very good score for yourself? Based on their responses I attempt to give them an index that makes them competitive in the first couple events BUT does not allow them to win their flight in the first couple events. We don't want the new members to finish last and at the same time, we don't want someone with a "20" playing handicap to win the third flight with a net 57. In the event some new member did shoot a net 57, we also advise everyone that we can and will adjust handicaps retroactively when it is clear to us that a member's handicap does not accurately reflect their potential. We don't like to adjust things retroactively and in the 8 years I have chaired the Handicap Committee, we have only done it once. So here are the questions to the mob: Any ideas how to do this better? Any questions one might ask an unhandicapped individual to better estimate their index/handicap? Would it be reasonable to have a new player play once (or more?) without being eligible to place in the money?
    • Wordle 1,013 4/6 ⬜🟨⬜🟨🟨 ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Awesome! I got that a while back with my start word! Wordle 1,013 4/6 ⬜⬜🟨⬜🟨 ⬜🟨⬜🟩⬜ ⬜⬜🟩🟩🟨 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...