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TXjammer

I hate the whole "pro/amateur" illusion!

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I like how "talent" always manages to come into these types of discussions..

Talent, my friend, is an illusion which hides behind proper practice, a lot of it..... even more so for a game like golf that requires a high degree of skill... In part I agree with the OP that part of the difference in the ametuer v pro debate is related to practice...
But it goes beyond that, quality of tuition plays a large part too.

The Pros are human and were born with exactly the same level of golf ability as you or I. ie zero.... The different is both the amount and quality of practice..

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How do you explain Bobby Jones then? He did not practice like the other touring pros but still managed to win. He obviously had more talent to make up for the lack of practice. So Tiger and me are separated only by quality and quantity of practice?

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How do you explain Bobby Jones then? He did not practice like the other touring pros but still managed to win. He obviously had more talent to make up for the lack of practice. So Tiger and me are separated only by quality and quantity of practice?

Bobby Jones spent countless hours as a little kid chipping and putting in his parents backyard. He didn´t just someday pick up a golf club and immediately shot in the 60s. There were thousands of hours of deep practice involved.

Yes, Tiger and you only seperates quality and quantity of practice and some athletic ability (hitting the ball far) which is somewhat determined by genetics (height, fast twitch muscles etc...). He got perfect mental training (father was in military) and spent 14 hours everyday on the golf course getting quality instruction and practicing deeply since he was like two years old.

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I like how "talent" always manages to come into these types of discussions..

This goes in my top ten idiotic posts file.

You are suggesting that everyone is born with the same capacity to achieve and it comes down to two things: Practise and tuition. You also say that "talent" is a a reflection of work ethic and pretty much nothing else. Good Lord, talk about an oversimplification. Why is it that so many people think that with time, money and practise they could be as good as anyone else? Ridiculous. This notion is disproved a thousand times every day in every golfing district on the planet. Why would you feel the need to think that you could be as good as X if only...? Could've. Would've. Should've. Didn't.

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I like how "talent" always manages to come into these types of discussions..

I don't buy this, you don't need to listen to me singing karaoke to realise I am tone deaf. I was not born with the same vocal capabilities Michael Jackson was, and the same applies to sports such as golf!

Sure you can progress massively through tuition and practise, but the reality is the pros aren't just guys who have had lots of time to practse... they're the very best, the cream of the guys who've had lots of time to practise .

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The one thing I wanted to break down here, is the block some golfers get behind. When they set their goals too high and can't reach them, they turn to the industry experts and professionals for help. Instead of the industry telling them the truth which is ...your equipment is fine, but might need a tweak here and there fitting-wise.... and the fact is you need to practice, practice, practice..... instead, they tell them you need this instructional DVD, this new driver, this V-Harness, this golf ball, this putter, this putter trainer, these irons, this Tour Striker, and on and on and on. And I'm NOT knocking these products...but the truth is it's about selling products. And to drive the sale home, they use tour pros as unreachable icons to put stars in you eyes. This wouldn't work if they didn't make the pros seem "larger than life", and the entire industry works together to create that image. I wanted to lessen discouragement here...and somehow this turned into an argument about who can be a pro and who can't.

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I like how "talent" always manages to come into these types of discussions..

What? Ok, so your basically saying that everyone who is born can, with practice, run the 100M in 9.72 seconds? Usain Bolt, who ran that time just decided to practice everyday and that is the only factor that allowed him to run that time? There are thousands of other runners who practice, probably more, who will never even sniff such a incredible 100M time. Why, because usain Bolt has a certain set of physical ability that seperates him from the rest. The same, IMO, aplies to golf. Not everyone has the "athletic ability," hand eye, or mechanical cooridination to be as good as a pro. So right off the bat, that eliminates thousands of people. Ok, so now that those people have been eliminated, you now have a set of exclusive people who have to battle out a mental thoughness that then eliminates thousands more people. You telling me that everyone who is born can just easily fit into that exclusive group by practicing alot?

You can apply this same type of thing to people who are gifted with brain smarts. ie brain surgeons, nasa engineers, high level scientists. Sure they studied everyone day for hours but so do many other students? Why do only an exclusive make it to those highly skilled professions? In these cases, there isn't ANY need for ability with your body, strength, ...nothing. Only your brain. So with your logic, if everyone is the "same" when they are born, why can't everyone be a brain surgoen if they study every single day? There are SOO many factors that are somewhat unexplainable that everyone is missing here and it's amazig to me that it all can be solved by saying, it just takes more practice.

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Wow, I guess all the research into genetics and dna coding is a waste of time, we're all born with same potential and ability. Our excuse for not running a 100M in 9.72 seconds is laziness or lack of effort, great I feel much better now. ; )

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The one thing I wanted to break down here, is the block some golfers get behind. When they set their goals too high and can't reach them, they turn to the industry experts and professionals for help. Instead of the industry telling them the truth which is ...your equipment is fine, but might need a tweak here and there fitting-wise.... and the fact is you need to practice, practice, practice..... instead, they tell them you need this instructional DVD, this new driver, this V-Harness, this golf ball, this putter, this putter trainer, these irons, this Tour Striker, and on and on and on. And I'm NOT knocking these products...but the truth is it's about selling products. And to drive the sale home, they use tour pros as unreachable icons to put stars in you eyes. This wouldn't work if they didn't make the pros seem "larger than life", and the entire industry works together to create that image. I wanted to lessen discouragement here...and somehow this turned into an argument about who can be a pro and who can't.

OK, so this I agree with. We won't argue the talent part. The reason I'll side with you here is this. 2 years ago I bought my first set of clubs from some sport shop I can't remember. Carry bag, shoes, balls, and a full set of clubs for $295. I proceeded to shoot an 88 the first time out. Now I'm a 5 handicapp. I've replaced my bag, gave it to my wife, same shoes and replaced my clubs. Thats it, no gimmicks, NO DVD's, NO instructor, just me trying different sh*t to play better. My low score is a 67, I play 1-2 times per week. You really don't need everything the big companies tell you you need.

Triathlon is the same way. I have a $10,000 bicycle and it goes only as fast as you can pedal it : ) I could buy a $3,000 set of wheels and I'm still only going to go so fast. Companies advertise to make MONEY!

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THANK YOU! This was never meant to be an argument about talent. This is about not getting discouraged with your golf game because of the image the media creates and hear-say creates about the pros.

Take for example Dustin Johnson at the 2010 US Open. The snap hook he hit OB from the tee on 12? I think? was just that....a snap hook. Watch the video of Tiger shanking into the ajoining fairway yelling FORE! Watch the vid of Sergio hitting a photographer 30yds left of the green @ 180yds.
THEN!...the next time your on the course and hit a bad shot, remember even the pros have bad ones....then remember that you get to play 1, 2, 4, whatever, times a month. It's a mental flush that brings you back to realilty and loosens the tension so you can play better on the next shot!

I play with several different guys that have a "perfect" round visualized when they hit the course.....first bad shot....they're done! You can see it on their face, hear it in their voice...so the next shot is worse, the next worse...and so on. This is what happens when you take in too much exageration of what pros can do, watch too much edited golf on TV, and then head out to the course expecting to do what you've seen and heard on TV.

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Remember.......when you watch the PGA Tour on TV you are ONLY seeing those players that are playing well that weekend. You didn't see the guy that is a PGA Tour Pro and shot an 82 on Friday. You are seeing the guys that "have it" that week. Now there are a FEW PGA Pros that are good enough that they have it nearly every week, but not many and far less then 10% are there each week. Most are not playing well that day and miss the cut.

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Remember.......when you watch the PGA Tour on TV you are ONLY seeing those players that are playing well that weekend. You didn't see the guy that is a PGA Tour Pro and shot an 82 on Friday. You are seeing the guys that "have it" that week. Now there are a FEW PGA Pros that are good enough that they have it nearly every week, but not many and far less then 10% are there each week. Most are not playing well that day and miss the cut.

That's a great point, but it doesn't change the fact that the worst of these guys are still a notch better than the best non-pro's. My brother is an outstanding bowler, with numerous perfect game and high average trophies on his shelves. He's great in leagues, but in a tournament format he can't handle the pressure required to play to the level required to win or turn pro.

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OK, so this I agree with. We won't argue the talent part. The reason I'll side with you here is this. 2 years ago I bought my first set of clubs from some sport shop I can't remember. Carry bag, shoes, balls, and a full set of clubs for $295.

WOW!!! 18 holes??!!!???? This has to be a record!!!

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I quit my job yesterday, and put the words "need to practice a lot in order to win The Masters, as practice is the ONLY obstacle" in my resignation letter and I received a $100,000 stipend from my company so that I can practice and play 9 days a week With the 100K the family can still pay some bills, have a house, and not have to get their dinner from a gas station.

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I don't find golf all that hard. And yes it was an 88 (par 71) for 18 holes. Just keep the ball in play and 2 putt all the greens....done. Most holes are an average of 350 yards or so long......3 120 yard shots (wedges), or 2 5 irons and a chip, get you on the green in 3.....2 putt bogey. Most of my playing buddies love to hit the biggest stick they have every time....no reason to do that : ) I don't mind laying up with a 6 or 7 iron (no reason to lose a 3 wood in the woods), for an easy wedge to the green on par fives...and so on and so on.

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Note: This thread is 3269 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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