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"Swing Machine Golf" by Paul Wilson


iacas
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2 hours ago, Antneye said:

I skipped ahead and will come back and read the rest of this debate when I have more time. I just want to say that there is nothing wrong with taking snippets from multiple sources when working on your swing. I am a big fan of the work of @iacas and the rest of the folks on this board. I also happen to like Paul Wilson's work. I don't, for a second, think that my arms are dead when I swing. However, the feel that Wilson describes is one that helps me not to start the swing with my arms. That feeling of "leaving my arms behind when I start the downswing" has helped me to smooth out my transition and get less OTT. That coupled with the great info on this site has helped me to swing the club better than I ever have even if I am still struggling with my score (predominantly due to my driver as can be seen in my swing thread)

Bottom line IMHO is that you can learn from multiple sources each with different teaching methods. Wilson's books are built around a feel (or marketing concept), but most of what he teaches is very similar in terms of grip, posture, etc. I don't think that detracts at all from the more technical instruction we get here. 

I am very technical, so while swing machine helped me it just wasn't enough to get me over the learning hump. But I certainly was helped by his instruction. 

I think this is fine. Some people have taken offense to our reviews. Which makes no sense. It’s just that, a review. As I’ve mentioned he explains some aspects in a clear way. Others he is just plain wrong. Simple as that. In PW video from Swing Machine he actually discusses ‘why impact isn’t important.’ PW’s explanation clearly shows he doesn’t understand the ball flight laws. So in that segment he is doling out inaccurate information. Not everyone is like you and able to sort out what’s good and what’s bad. And this shouldn’t be a concern when you’re paying someone. Sure there can be personality issues where one instructor is simply able to ‘get through’ to someone better but the information being given should be accurate. When I ask @iacas a question regarding the golf swing I know I’m getting an answer that he can back up with facts, stats and research (which 5SK is based on). And although PW Swing Machine does have some accurate information it also has some inaccurate which I don’t agree should happen when you’re paying for it.

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

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7 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I think this is fine. Some people have taken offense to our reviews. Which makes no sense. It’s just that, a review. As I’ve mentioned he explains some aspects in a clear way. Others he is just plain wrong. Simple as that. In PW video from Swing Machine he actually discusses ‘why impact isn’t important.’ PW’s explanation clearly shows he doesn’t understand the ball flight laws. So in that segment he is doling out inaccurate information. Not everyone is like you and able to sort out what’s good and what’s bad. And this shouldn’t be a concern when you’re paying someone. Sure there can be personality issues where one instructor is simply able to ‘get through’ to someone better but the information being given should be accurate. When I ask @iacas a question regarding the golf swing I know I’m getting an answer that he can back up with facts, stats and research (which 5SK is based on). And although PW Swing Machine does have some accurate information it also has some inaccurate which I don’t agree should happen when you’re paying for it.

Yes. His ball flight section is absolute rubbish. I think he may have edited it in some of his later work. 

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1 minute ago, Antneye said:

Yes. His ball flight section is absolute rubbish. I think he may have edited it in some of his later work. 

Hopefully so. I haven’t read any of his newest material. But it’s unfortunate he posted here and just ran off when offered a discussion. He and others missed out on a good discussion. @iacas would be more than willing to discuss swing mechanics I’m sure. The 5SK doesn’t have anything to debate as it’s based on research and just plain facts as proven over and over again by video and monitors. How one achieves the 5SK is where the diversity can come about. And I think this is always an educational experience. Some are just too stubborn and that’s a shame.

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:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

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7 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I think this is fine. Some people have taken offense to our reviews. Which makes no sense. It’s just that, a review. As I’ve mentioned he explains some aspects in a clear way. Others he is just plain wrong. Simple as that. In PW video from Swing Machine he actually discusses ‘why impact isn’t important.’ PW’s explanation clearly shows he doesn’t understand the ball flight laws. So in that segment he is doling out inaccurate information. Not everyone is like you and able to sort out what’s good and what’s bad. And this shouldn’t be a concern when you’re paying someone. Sure there can be personality issues where one instructor is simply able to ‘get through’ to someone better but the information being given should be accurate. When I ask @iacas a question regarding the golf swing I know I’m getting an answer that he can back up with facts, stats and research (which 5SK is based on). And although PW Swing Machine does have some accurate information it also has some inaccurate which I don’t agree should happen when you’re paying for it.

I like how you took one sentence out of a video lesson and spun to fit your argument. Which I still don't know why you and iacas got all defensive and were just arguing for the sake of arguing. That's probably why he quit responding. I really don't know what you and iacas  have against this guy.

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5 minutes ago, TRUCKER said:

I like how you took one sentence out of a video lesson and spun to fit your argument. Which I still don't know why you and iacas got all defensive and were just arguing for the sake of arguing. That's probably why he quit responding. I really don't know what you and iacas  have against this guy.

I don't have anything against the guy.

Except that he's teaching a feel as if it's reality.

Just this past week I've told a guy (Craig) a few things:

  • Feel like your arms are just ropes.
  • Get your belt buckle facing the target before the clubhead even reaches the ball.
  • Barely hold onto the club and let your arms get dragged along behind simply because they're attached to your shoulders.

He over-uses his arms. I had to give him some advice similar to what @pwgolfpro has espoused in his videos and here about his arms being "effortless" or whatever.

The problem with this is just as I said in the second sentence of my post here: he's teaching a feeling and isn't talking about what actually happens in a golf swing.

This is the same exact thing I've said all along.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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1 hour ago, TRUCKER said:

I like how you took one sentence out of a video lesson and spun to fit your argument. Which I still don't know why you and iacas got all defensive and were just arguing for the sake of arguing. That's probably why he quit responding. I really don't know what you and iacas  have against this guy.

I didn’t spin anything. Look, I have absolutely nothing against PW. Do you understand that? This is to discuss PW Swing Machine. It’s not a thread created to shower him with love and affection and attest to his unparalleled wisdom of the golf swing.  I’ve repeatedly given PW credit where it was due. He does any entire segment regarding impact to which as another member quoted as ‘rubbish.’ Which it is. And even if I misquoted (I didn’t) or if I was wrong about a technicality (I’m not) then he’s more than welcome to explain his views. Why is that so hard for you to understand? 

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

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I like to think about not using my arms because I use my arms too much - I  want the lower body and chest to go before I turn on the arms - when I don't get arms-anxious and my body is giving momentum to the arms, my swingspeed does increase by 5 mph and the contact feels great - but I am also generating speed with my arms. I just need to feel my lower body more to properly sequence.

Ping G400 Max 9/TPT Shaft, TEE EX10 Beta 4, 5 wd, PXG 22 HY, Mizuno JPX919F 5-GW, TItleist SM7 Raw 55-09, 59-11, Bettinardi BB39

 

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

I like to think about not using my arms because I use my arms too much - I  want the lower body and chest to go before I turn on the arms - when I don't get arms-anxious and my body is giving momentum to the arms, my swingspeed does increase by 5 mph and the contact feels great - but I am also generating speed with my arms. I just need to feel my lower body more to properly sequence.

And that’s true for some. Like Craig.

But I’d argue that for the majority this is a “bad” feeling as many/most golfers should use the arms more actively.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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21 minutes ago, iacas said:

And that’s true for some. Like Craig.

But I’d argue that for the majority this is a “bad” feeling as many/most golfers should use the arms more actively.

Agree - you've proven it. And my instructor agrees with you. I don't know if this is correct, but when I feel my body "pull" my arms, I know it's time to go after it with the arms.

Ping G400 Max 9/TPT Shaft, TEE EX10 Beta 4, 5 wd, PXG 22 HY, Mizuno JPX919F 5-GW, TItleist SM7 Raw 55-09, 59-11, Bettinardi BB39

 

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  • 8 months later...

Well I am back.  I purchased Paul Wilson's program after a horrible last round May 5th.  I had so much expectations after shooting my best ever round of 75 in March.  So much for expectations as my golf swing has come totally off the rails.

 

I am going to give him a try, see what happens and report my progress over the summer.  I don't have an official handicap but I have been around 83 on average the last 10 rounds except for the last one, 95.

I will give a bit of a review on his swing instruction video, have not had time to read the book yet.

Things I liked so far:

1. He explains his method well.

Things that sort of worry me :

1. He never in the video addresses ball position, stance width or other basics except for the grip.

Things I dislike so far:

1. It is only an online course now I guess as I don't know if you can actually get physical copies unless you pay extra.

 

I guess I will see how it goes as I need something.  My back has been giving me heck lately and apparently my old style swing using almost all arm muscles really exasperated the issue.  

 

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On 5/8/2019 at 3:02 PM, MOODY said:

Well I am back.  I purchased Paul Wilson's program after a horrible last round May 5th.  I had so much expectations after shooting my best ever round of 75 in March.  So much for expectations as my golf swing has come totally off the rails.

 

I am going to give him a try, see what happens and report my progress over the summer.  I don't have an official handicap but I have been around 83 on average the last 10 rounds except for the last one, 95.

I will give a bit of a review on his swing instruction video, have not had time to read the book yet.

Things I liked so far:

1. He explains his method well.

Things that sort of worry me :

1. He never in the video addresses ball position, stance width or other basics except for the grip.

Things I dislike so far:

1. It is only an online course now I guess as I don't know if you can actually get physical copies unless you pay extra.

 

I guess I will see how it goes as I need something.  My back has been giving me heck lately and apparently my old style swing using almost all arm muscles really exasperated the issue.  

 

It will be interesting to follow along on your journey.    Good luck.   

 

Edited by dennyjones

From the land of perpetual cloudiness.   I'm Denny

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Well it doesn't take long to realize some of my errors, that is internet and browser screw ups.  

I was watching his vids in full screen going from vid to vid but I found out watching in small screen there are vids underneath.

They must have been added due to people asking questions because there is a "Set Up" video.  I now have to explore all options as the original play list has some hidden extras.

 

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36 minutes ago, MOODY said:

Well it doesn't take long to realize some of my errors, that is internet and browser screw ups.  

I was watching his vids in full screen going from vid to vid but I found out watching in small screen there are vids underneath.

They must have been added due to people asking questions because there is a "Set Up" video.  I now have to explore all options as the original play list has some hidden extras.

 

His website has hundreds of videos, which include set up, grip, posture, stance, etc.  It is a subscription site, but he does a new golf tip video every day.

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57 minutes ago, MOODY said:

Well it doesn't take long to realize some of my errors, that is internet and browser screw ups.  

I was watching his vids in full screen going from vid to vid but I found out watching in small screen there are vids underneath.

They must have been added due to people asking questions because there is a "Set Up" video.  I now have to explore all options as the original play list has some hidden extras.

 

I think it’s great that you are giving his product and style a chance.  This thread has a lot of opinions and hyperbole stated as fact.  Clearly there is a monetary reason to steer people from one product to another.  Never trust somebody that says they have all the answers and other guys don’t know what they are talking about.  Go with what works best for you.  

I started golfing 5 years ago and stumbled across Paul Wilson and have found him to be very informative and effective.  I am now a little over a 4 handicap and shot my first ever under par round two weeks ago.  I personally would not have been able to achieve the same results without Paul Wilson.  That’s not to say he is the end all be all and will work for all, but I definitely found him helpful.

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1 minute ago, golfonly said:

This thread has a lot of opinions and hyperbole stated as fact. Clearly there is a monetary reason to steer people from one product to another. Never trust somebody that says they have all the answers and other guys don’t know what they are talking about.  

None of this rings true.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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6 minutes ago, iacas said:

None of this rings true.

As I have stated I have no desire to engage with you, however you do have a monetary incentive to move people from other products to yours.

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11 minutes ago, golfonly said:

As I have stated I have no desire to engage with you, however you do have a monetary incentive to move people from other products to yours.

Yeah, I’m always pushing products here… 😛 I give away a ton of information and discuss tons of things freely. And you don’t get to say “no desire to engage” after you engage.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Just now, iacas said:

Yeah, I’m always pushing products here… 😛 I give away a ton of information and discuss tons of things freely. And you don’t get to say “no desire to engage” after you engage.

I didn’t engage you.  You engaged me, I’d prefer you didn’t post on every single post I make.  Not pushing products?  That’s funny.

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Note: This thread is 914 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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