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What should I work on the most?


Unkynd
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I said earlier that I think putting is the obvious short term solution.  As others have also said, eliminating all 3 putts puts the OP from 45 to 36 putts a round, and would get him in double digits immediately.  It's true that the excessive 3 putts probably have something to do with bad pitches and chips, but unless you're playing on courses with wicked fast pro style greens with hard to read but extreme breaks, just having decent distance control on lag putts and being VERY high percentage inside 5-6 feet should let you 2 putt from most anywhere.

I just want to add a second to general ball striking, and especially some consistency off the tee (with a 3W obviously fine if it goes 220+), being the other most important thing to work on.  I've never been an awesome putter, but there's never been a time when I've averaged more than 37 putts per round, so given that, I've found my biggest improvement has tracked with my ability to give myself an open look towards the green with my 2nd shot.  Sure, if my driver and 2H are working off the tee (I HATE my 3W and can't afford a new one right now), but my irons are off that day, I'm not going to break any personal records.  But I'm going to score MUCH better than if my irons are feeling great but I'm in the trees 2/3 of the time off the tee.

Two of my recent rounds as an example.  I broke 80 for the second time two weeks ago.  It was ALL driver.  It was an easy course where minor misses right or left still left good 2nd shots, and I didn't hit a single drive more than a couple feet off the wide fairways.  My irons were not feeling nearly as good as my driver, though still decent, and I ended up with a 76.

Next week, my buddy and I found a deal on a VERY hard local course that's pricier than I usually get to play.  Was feeling confident in my driver from the last week and a good range session that week and ignored the fact that the fairways were f-ing SKINNY, there wasn't that much rough, and off the rough you were either buried in super dense trees or just straight up OB.  I lost 4 balls on the front and shot a 52.  I wasn't even missing by much.  More than the week before, but even the slight misses were either lost or gave me no choice but a straight sideways chip back onto the fairway, often still quite far from the green as my drive got knocked down by trees.  On the back I put away my driver and hit 2H off the tee.  That club I was money with.  I still couldn't get the greens which were WAY faster than anything I'd ever played, but I shot a 42 on the back with 3 3-putts and a 4 putt.  With greens I had any idea how to play where I could have avoided 3+ putts, I would have shot a 37.  That's like 8-10 shots improvement on 9 holes just from finding the fairway off the tee.

Matt

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If you get a consistant putting stroke, one that is the same each time. It shouldn't take your body long to get use to speeds, and then get use to speeds of greens after a few holes on a golf course you don't know. The only courses i can't stand are in the south east, with the heavy grain in the greens, that just takes me out of it. I love my Ohio greens ;b

I think majority of people just keep messing with there putting stroke they can never develop any touch. If your going to change something, change it on the practice green. Then the day you play, just hit some putts on the practice green to get a feel for how your putting is that day. Don't think about anything but distance, period. No, oh i forgot to take it back like this. Just let your natural stroke hit it. The practice outside of playing rounds will slowly modify that putter stroke.

Also, practice distance control, i like lining up balls at different distances in a line, and working close to away. I also like to line them up at an angle, so i can bounce around so i don't get use to hitting them one way.

Make sure all your putts end up just behind to 12 inches behind the hole. Always past the hole.

thats game management there mdl.. I am about a 99% driver guy. The only course to handicap me was the shipyards in Hilton Head. The holes would litteraly go 250 out and turn 90 degrees. Drove me nuts, then i just decided to bomb the corner, BAD IDEA ;) When i got to the first tee, i will check the rough next to the tee box to see how my irons go through it. If its heavy but the irons cut through it easy i will hit driver all day. If i know i will have issues, i will take 3-wood or irons and pick my spots. Its a little trick i do.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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OK Unkynd.  so your distance on 1/2  3/4 pitch shots is also bad in addition to 45 putts. Short game practice yes,,,, but until you get the time to hone this, stick with my advice to hit every shot like you mean to knock it in, never short. Most the shots hit by new players are short, fat or whatever, and only long when it is skulled. Learn to trust your line, give it a chance to get there no matter how far you are from the hole.

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This may sound odd but what about working on playing lesser courses from closer tee boxes? My reasoning is get used to playing good golf with low scores before really over practicing just t come up short. Sorry this is what I plan on working on the confidence part of the game and the rest should fall in place over time. 3 putts may be happening because you feel rushed by better players behind you. All low indexers please chime in. You guys were once new to golf and looking to improve what would you do over to get to where you are or better?

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If he doesn't have a decent full swing, he probably won't have a real decent putting stroke.  The putter still has to be on plane and leaning forward.  I'd be willing to bet he's flipping the putter, which is why he's not making putts.  Ballstriking is probably 90%+ of handicap.  I've seen a lot of scratch and better golfers who can't putt to save their lives, but I've never seen a scratch or better who didn't have a good swing, but had a great short game.

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Originally Posted by Shanks A Million

Ballstriking is probably 90%+ of handicap.  I've seen a lot of scratch and better golfers who can't putt to save their lives, but I've never seen a scratch or better who didn't have a good swing, but had a great short game.



these are good points,

Colin P.

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Putting is easy. The easiest part of the game. If only I could remember who said that?!?!?

Originally Posted by colin007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million

Ballstriking is probably 90%+ of handicap.  I've seen a lot of scratch and better golfers who can't putt to save their lives, but I've never seen a scratch or better who didn't have a good swing, but had a great short game.

these are good points,



Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.

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Originally Posted by colin007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanks A Million

Ballstriking is probably 90%+ of handicap.  I've seen a lot of scratch and better golfers who can't putt to save their lives, but I've never seen a scratch or better who didn't have a good swing, but had a great short game.

these are good points,


I have been as low as plus 2 over many years, I have never seen a scratch player who could not chip and putt. I have seen scratch players with the worst looking swings, But they were consistently in play, some were not long at all. I have played in state ams, and had the opportunity to play with several pros, these guys are on a whole different level, but among the many many players carrying 0-3 handicaps you will see plenty of ugliness, but these guys know how to scrambleto save par and they will make a few birdies to offset the few bogies they cant escape

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Putting: 29-45 putts per round (pro to high handicap)

Driving: 14+ (depending on penalties)

Approach Shots (par 3 tee shots included): 18 shots a round

Shortgame: 6-18+ (pro to high handicap)

Really including ball striking, approach shots, ball striking is probably near putting, short game is a low percentage. If you shot 100, your looking at 18%-20% short game, 40-45% putting, that leaves 35-40% ball striking.. Depending on penalties of course.. But of course alot of people think that if you improve ball striking you will improve your chipping. I think this is wrong, but thats my opinion.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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6-18 short game shots as the overall range from pro to high handicap? What's the source of that information? Personally, I'd consider any shot between ~80 yards and the putting surface a short game shot. Have you actually played with a 30+ capper who only took 18 of those shots per round? Over an 18 hole round? I've played with guys who took at least 2-3 of those shots per round.

Quote:

Putting: 29-45 putts per round (pro to high handicap)

Driving: 14+ (depending on penalties)

Approach Shots (par 3 tee shots included): 18 shots a round

Shortgame: 6-18+ (pro to high handicap)

Really including ball striking, approach shots, ball striking is probably near putting, short game is a low percentage. If you shot 100, your looking at 18%-20% short game, 40-45% putting, that leaves 35-40% ball striking.. Depending on penalties of course.. But of course alot of people think that if you improve ball striking you will improve your chipping. I think this is wrong, but thats my opinion.



Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.

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Quote:
6-18 short game shots as the overall range from pro to high handicap? What's the source of that information? Personally, I'd consider any shot between ~80 yards and the putting surface a short game shot. Have you actually played with a 30+ capper who only took 18 of those shots per round? Over an 18 hole round? I've played with guys who took at least 2-3 of those shots per round.

I am going by straight pga stats. Short game is measured by Scrambling stat,

"The percent of time a player misses the green in regulation, but still makes par or better"

By the PGA standards anything that before hitting a GIR is considered an approach shot, not a short game shot. So it doesn't matter if they drive it near the green on a short par 4, that is not short game, that is an approach shot. Pro's hit 12 GIR average, that means they miss 6 times, so they have 6 scrambling attempts. So higher handicappers would take more, i basically took that a higher handicapped might not hit one green in regulation. I know i have been there.

" A green is considered hit in regulation if any portion of the ball is touching the putting surface after the GIR stroke has been taken. (The GIR stroke is determined by subtracting 2 from par (1st stroke on a par 3, 2nd on a par 4, 3rd on a par 5))"

The problem with trying to quantify this is that everyones standards are different. I like the PGA's reasoning, its makes things easier.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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Did you seriously think I was including short approach shots in regulation? Give me a break.

High handicappers aren't consistently driving their ball to that range and they do have a lot of 0-80 yard shots after their first attemt at a GIR. (i.e their second shot on a par 3, their third shot (and beyond) on a par 4, their 4th shot and beyond on par 5s). You're assuming that a high handicapper misses 18 greens (not impossible) then only takes one additional shot to get to the green. I don't see that happening in the real world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

Quote:
6-18 short game shots as the overall range from pro to high handicap? What's the source of that information? Personally, I'd consider any shot between ~80 yards and the putting surface a short game shot. Have you actually played with a 30+ capper who only took 18 of those shots per round? Over an 18 hole round? I've played with guys who took at least 2-3 of those shots per round.

I am going by straight pga stats. Short game is measured by Scrambling stat,

"The percent of time a player misses the green in regulation, but still makes par or better"

By the PGA standards anything that before hitting a GIR is considered an approach shot, not a short game shot. So it doesn't matter if they drive it near the green on a short par 4, that is not short game, that is an approach shot. Pro's hit 12 GIR average, that means they miss 6 times, so they have 6 scrambling attempts. So higher handicappers would take more, i basically took that a higher handicapped might not hit one green in regulation. I know i have been there.

" A green is considered hit in regulation if any portion of the ball is touching the putting surface after the GIR stroke has been taken. (The GIR stroke is determined by subtracting 2 from par (1st stroke on a par 3, 2nd on a par 4, 3rd on a par 5))"

The problem with trying to quantify this is that everyones standards are different. I like the PGA's reasoning, its makes things easier.



Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.

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Quote:
Did you seriously think I was including short approach shots in regulation? Give me a break.

High handicappers aren't consistently driving their ball to that range and they do have a lot of 0-80 yard shots after their first attemt at a GIR. (i.e their second shot on a par 3, their third shot (and beyond) on a par 4, their 4th shot and beyond on par 5s). You're assuming that a high handicapper misses 18 greens (not impossible) then only takes one additional shot to get to the green. I don't see that happening in the real world.

Short approach shots should be considered a GIR, GIR isn't dependent on type of shot. But with regards to how i based my stats, its easier to figure out what a pro does by taking that they hit 12 GIR's, they don't have with in 80 yards that often. You ask me to verify were i got my stats, i got my stats and definitions from PGA's website. Interpret as you wish.

But back to point, i see it more beneficial to work on putting, than ball striking, then short game. Lets say you work in the order i show. The original creater of this thread had the following stats,

47 Putts

2 GIR (1 par 3, 1 par 4) (both of my pars)

3 FW

No saves, obv.

shot a 111

You work on putting, minimize three putts, your looking at an 11 shot swing. Work on that ball striking, lets say we get his GIR's up to 6, that means he's now take the number of short game shots he woudl have wasted and multiplies that by 4, so if he waste 2 shots per hole, he saved 8 shots there, with out touching the short game, and he would decrease his Penalties off the tee box as well.

So the quickest way down the HDCP is putting and ball striking. Then work on short game, and game management.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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I know what a GIR is. Not sure why you keep bring it up out of context?!?

Basically what I was saying is your stat for the number of short game shots played by high handicappers seemed either wrong or fabricated. Thanks for clearing that up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

Quote:
Did you seriously think I was including short approach shots in regulation? Give me a break.

High handicappers aren't consistently driving their ball to that range and they do have a lot of 0-80 yard shots after their first attemt at a GIR. (i.e their second shot on a par 3, their third shot (and beyond) on a par 4, their 4th shot and beyond on par 5s). You're assuming that a high handicapper misses 18 greens (not impossible) then only takes one additional shot to get to the green. I don't see that happening in the real world.

Short approach shots should be considered a GIR, GIR isn't dependent on type of shot. But with regards to how i based my stats, its easier to figure out what a pro does by taking that they hit 12 GIR's, they don't have with in 80 yards that often. You ask me to verify were i got my stats, i got my stats and definitions from PGA's website. Interpret as you wish.

But back to point, i see it more beneficial to work on putting, than ball striking, then short game. Lets say you work in the order i show. The original creater of this thread had the following stats,

47 Putts

2 GIR (1 par 3, 1 par 4) (both of my pars)

3 FW

No saves, obv.

shot a 111

You work on putting, minimize three putts, your looking at an 11 shot swing. Work on that ball striking, lets say we get his GIR's up to 6, that means he's now take the number of short game shots he woudl have wasted and multiplies that by 4, so if he waste 2 shots per hole, he saved 8 shots there, with out touching the short game, and he would decrease his Penalties off the tee box as well.

So the quickest way down the HDCP is putting and ball striking. Then work on short game, and game management.



Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.

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If you took the top ten golfers in the world and gave them the original posters short game and putting, they wouldn't be playing golf professionally for much longer. If you gave the same top ten the  long game of the OP and combine it with their own short game and putting, they would still be making money on one of the pro tours

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Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

If you took the top ten golfers in the world and gave them the original posters short game and putting, they wouldn't be playing golf professionally for much longer. If you gave the same top ten the  long game of the OP and combine it with their own short game and putting, they would still be making money on one of the pro tours

The OP needs to work on everything. What he needs to work on "first" and "most" may not be the same thing and are open to interpretation. Your analogy is stretching the truth. The former professional would in a hazard or OB more often than he'd be 290 down the middle. He'd be hitting fewer than < 20% greens in regulation.  He'd be living in a pipe somewhere.

Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.

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It's supposed to warm up next week here so hopefully I can get out and really work on the putting.  I think just about everyone agrees that my putting is beyond terrible, and the rest of my game is pretty bad too.

I love this forum though, these types of discussions are why I come here almost every day.  Thanks everyone for all of the input.  Next week I'll take my camera to the putting green and show you guys my putting stroke so you can pick it apart :)

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Note: This thread is 3832 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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