Tiger Woods will never regain golf dominance

[franky21]

Originally Posted by alo1984

Okay, so let's not give Tiger any credit for the huge growth that just happened to take place at the exact time he dominated the sport.  It was bound to happen anyway.  I agree with some of your points, but it seems that your disdain for "fawning" over Tiger is keeping you from acknowledging what is really obvious.  Tiger absolutely deserves credit for the commercial growth that golf has experienced.  No, he isn't the sole reason for it but he has played a substantial role.

Sheesh.  A bit gloomy don't you think.

couldnt agree with you more Tiger has done alot for this sport and it has gained alot of popularity since he came on tour. But people seem to forget all that cause he cheated on his wife. Noone in life is perfect i dont think what he did is right but i dont think people should forget about him because of what he did but winning cures all as soon as he starts winning all of the Tiger haters will be goiong to there local golf store and buying there nike victory hats.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by franky21

. . .as soon as he starts winning all of the Tiger haters will be goiong to there local golf store and buying there nike victory hats.

Do you honestly believe what you type?

[max power]

I don't care that he cheated on his wife, I don't deny that he drastically increased prize money in the sport, and he has little to nothing to do with how much I care about golf.  He made a lot of golfers (and himself) a lot of money, and he's an all-time great golfer.  In what way is anyone "forgetting about him?"

I don't get the crazy Tiger love, but I don't get the hero worship of any athlete or musician.  And I love sports and music.

Originally Posted by franky21

couldnt agree with you more Tiger has done alot for this sport and it has gained alot of popularity since he came on tour. But people seem to forget all that cause he cheated on his wife. Noone in life is perfect i dont think what he did is right but i dont think people should forget about him because of what he did but winning cures all as soon as he starts winning all of the Tiger haters will be goiong to there local golf store and buying there nike victory hats.

[alo1984]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

The TV networks made more money for events Tiger entered, and the purses increased. Tiger was everywhere. I can't deny that. At what cost though? When he wasn't in the field rantings were way down. He doesn't compete on the LPGA at all, so that has almost disappeared. There's only so much air time to go around. So yes, Tiger got people excited about Tiger (and Buick and Nike, etc) and not so excited about anyone else. I don't recall playing with anyone who cited Tiger Woods as the reason they took up the game, but I could be wrong and it could be just a regional bias since I don't see much Nike golf equipment around here either.

Quote:

The interest in golf in general grew for the general public due to Tiger.  I don't recall seeing much LPGA before Tiger but I am likely much younger than you.  I think it would be a reach to say that Tiger took away from their air time though.  I would disagree that Tiger excited anyone about Buick except for the old people who already drove them.

Have you ever heard anyone say that they took up baseball because of Albert Pujols or Derek Jeter?  Or took up football because Brett Favre or Reggie Bush.  People play sports because they are introduced to it from family, friends, school, or a combination of those and the athletes they are fans of but not necessarily because of any one athlete.

I agree, I hardly ever see anyone playing Nike clubs.  When I do, they are usually poor players or those who seem uninterested in improvement.  Maybe those are the people Tiger attracted to the game.

[USMCSemantics]

I'm a Tiger fan, I started watching golf when I was young because of Tiger, it was fun to watch him win and I always pulled for him.  That said, I don't think Tiger will dominate golf like he has in the past.  The competition has gotten so much stronger, the young guys coming in and the europeans are the top 5 in the world now.  I do think Tiger will get his swing straightened out and will be very competitive and soon.  I think he'll be on the front page sunday of the Masters, he definitely has a chance to win it.  One thing I've learned about watching Tiger is that you can never count him out, especially in a major.  But no, he wont dominate golf the way he used to.. I agree.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by alo1984

Many of us who took up the game in the last 15 years owe a lot to Tiger.  We owe some gratitude for the equipment that affords us the ability to hit the ball so far and straight to him.  We also owe him some gratitude for the affordability of a round of golf and the plethora of golf publications available.

Ip  firmly believe that TIger helped usher in an era of technological advancement and accessibility that would not have otherwise have happened to the golf world.  At least not as quickly as it has.

.

This is just a tad over-the-top imho.  I mean, TW can hardly claim responsibility for technological advances in the game.  Yes he has brought people - and money - into the game that otherwise wouldn't be there and that is good to some extent I suppose, but he has hardly been a role model on the track in all respects (let's forget about all the other stuff).  I think he can claim to have introduced a more athletic, aggressive style of play while still having a remarkable short game (in his prime), all of which others have tried to emulate and which has raised the standard of play overall.

Has he ushered in a new approach to anticancer therapy as well?  How about a new theory of the origin of life?  Meaning of Stonehenge ......

[jldavis73]

The future of the PGA Tour doesn't rest in Tiger's hands.  As long as people play golf, there will be a pro tour.  The success of that tour post-Tiger is in their own hands.  They need to appropriately market the other big names and "young guns" so that we also care about their play, as well.  Look at the NBA.  They rode the Magic vs. Bird train for a long time, then Jordan was the primary marketing piece, and that mushroomed into mass marketing many players.  Now it's a sport watched all over the world.

[RichF]

Quote:

The future of the PGA Tour doesn't rest in Tiger's hands.  As long as people play golf, there will be a pro tour.  The success of that tour post-Tiger is in their own hands.  They need to appropriately market the other big names and "young guns" so that we also care about their play, as well.  Look at the NBA.  They rode the Magic vs. Bird train for a long time, then Jordan was the primary marketing piece, and that mushroomed into mass marketing many players.  Now it's a sport watched all over the world.

+1

They need to market it correctly and ensure that we don't have a tour full of mega-talented sour-faced, club-throwing, spitting, swearing punks...

I mean, WTF is wrong with these boring players like Kaymer??? He should liven up for god's sake...

[franky21]

Originally Posted by alo1984

The interest in golf in general grew for the general public due to Tiger.  I don't recall seeing much LPGA before Tiger but I am likely much younger than you.  I think it would be a reach to say that Tiger took away from their air time though.  I would disagree that Tiger excited anyone about Buick except for the old people who already drove them.

Have you ever heard anyone say that they took up baseball because of Albert Pujols or Derek Jeter?  Or took up football because Brett Favre or Reggie Bush.  People play sports because they are introduced to it from family, friends, school, or a combination of those and the athletes they are fans of but not necessarily because of any one athlete.

I agree, I hardly ever see anyone playing Nike clubs.  When I do, they are usually poor players or those who seem uninterested in improvement.  Maybe those are the people Tiger attracted to the game.

Originally Posted by jldavis73

The future of the PGA Tour doesn't rest in Tiger's hands.  As long as people play golf, there will be a pro tour.  The success of that tour post-Tiger is in their own hands.  They need to appropriately market the other big names and "young guns" so that we also care about their play, as well.  Look at the NBA.  They rode the Magic vs. Bird train for a long time, then Jordan was the primary marketing piece, and that mushroomed into mass marketing many players.  Now it's a sport watched all over the world.

The reality is that if Tiger doesnt play well or stops playing golf ratings will be very very low like they have been in tournys that he isnt playing in and when he isnt in contention on sundays in majors.[these are facts]. The ratings for the british open last year were appauling, that is one of the most beautiful coures and everyone wants to win on the  that course its where it all started and for ratings to be that bad shows you that people arent interested when he isnt around or playing wll. Just because you and your golf league buddies dont agree doesnt mean much because that is a fraction of the percentage. The majority of people want to see him dominate and it shows when the tv ratings are released. I dont see what the debate is all the proof is there on how important he is to the game. We have had many great golfers but at the age and the way he won is what makes him a icon. That is what brings youth to the game which is the future not the 55 year old scratch golfers that are members at the sweetest golf courses. He attracts young people and has made it clear to be the best you have to be fit and work hard research the development in golf academys around the world. That is all based on the way Tiger has approached the game and has set the bar. He even made John Daly loose weight for pete sake. The bottom line is he will be appreciated once he is all done because there will never be a kid at his age coming into the tour and destroying everyone in his path. He has a huge part in the sussess of the tour in the last 10 years like it or not. Its funny that we are debating on a guy that has won as much as him lets talk about how westwood cant win on sundays or how the kid that was suppost to be the next great thing rory cant put together 3 solid rounds or how none of the top 5 euros play full time on the pga tour other then westwood.

[Harmonious]

The PGA Tour is in negotiations with the TV networks right now.  It will be very interesting to see whether they will continue to shell out the huge dollars for broadcast rights.  TV revenue may very well decline due to lower anticipated ratings, but golf has never had the ratings of NASCAR or the NFL, for instance.  A large reason why so much golf is televised these days is the demographics of the viewers.  Golf viewers as a group are near the top in disposable income (probably behind Wall Street Week), which is why golf TV ads and tournament sponsors are banks, stock brokers, luxury cars and management consultants and not Bud Light.

So, Franky, although the youth are important to the growth of golf, in general, to the TV network guys and tournament sponsors, it's all about the old country-club geezers who drive Cadillacs and pay $5000 or more to play in the pro-ams.  And that won't change when Tiger leaves the game.

[sean_miller]

I will admit that every televised sport needs to have stars, and Tiger is the biggest one since 1996 (and Phil of course, but they sort of go together in this equation - the rivalry). Some of these guys getting magazine covers (e.g. Fowler and Poulter - come on, really?!?!?) need to step up. The sponsors can't make money marketing guys who don't make it close on Sunday. They need names and personalities people can remember. That so many memorable players are on the European tour this year is not a good thing for the PGA Tour. To say otherwise would be denial.

Originally Posted by Harmonious

The PGA Tour is in negotiations with the TV networks right now.  It will be very interesting to see whether they will continue to shell out the huge dollars for broadcast rights.  TV revenue may very well decline due to lower anticipated ratings, but golf has never had the ratings of NASCAR or the NFL, for instance.  A large reason why so much golf is televised these days is the demographics of the viewers.  Golf viewers as a group are near the top in disposable income (probably behind Wall Street Week), which is why golf TV ads and tournament sponsors are banks, stock brokers, luxury cars and management consultants and not Bud Light.

So, Franky, although the youth are important to the growth of golf, in general, to the TV network guys and tournament sponsors, it's all about the old country-club geezers who drive Cadillacs and pay $5000 or more to play in the pro-ams.  And that won't change when Tiger leaves the game.

[Brant17]

My two cents on the whole Tiger situation....

First, I have several friends that are on the PGA tour that know Tiger first hand. As far as the cheating on the wife thing is concerned....Tiger has not done half of what a big majority of the PGA tour players do. Yes, he cheated on his wife! Yes, it was wrong! For people that cannot get over that then that is obviously your own problem. My PGA tour buddies told me that well over half of the tour players cheat on there wives at tournaments. They also told me that the media blew a bunch of the Tiger issue out of proportion. He is obviously in the lime light so there for his mistakes show up more so than other players. And for those of you are thinking it.... I am not saying it is right to go out and cheat on your spouse. I personally don't care what you, TW, or anyone else does in there personal life.

second, Tiger is a champion. He always has been. His problems on the course right now are not all in his head. They are more in his swing mechanics. He his trying to make some major mechanical changes to become better. Tiger will become the world #1 again, he will win more majors, and he will go on to be the greatest player to ever play the game.

[mtsalmela80]

Originally Posted by Brant17

My two cents on the whole Tiger situation....

First, I have several friends that are on the PGA tour that know Tiger first hand. As far as the cheating on the wife thing is concerned....Tiger has not done half of what a big majority of the PGA tour players do. Yes, he cheated on his wife! Yes, it was wrong! For people that cannot get over that then that is obviously your own problem. My PGA tour buddies told me that well over half of the tour players cheat on there wives at tournaments. They also told me that the media blew a bunch of the Tiger issue out of proportion. He is obviously in the lime light so there for his mistakes show up more so than other players. And for those of you are thinking it.... I am not saying it is right to go out and cheat on your spouse. I personally don't care what you, TW, or anyone else does in there personal life.

second, Tiger is a champion. He always has been. His problems on the course right now are not all in his head. They are more in his swing mechanics. He his trying to make some major mechanical changes to become better. Tiger will become the world #1 again, he will win more majors, and he will go on to be the greatest player to ever play the game.

and if he doesn't, are you going to spontaneously combust?

[RichF]

Quote:

My two cents on the whole Tiger situation....

First, I have several friends that are on the PGA tour that know Tiger first hand. As far as the cheating on the wife thing is concerned....Tiger has not done half of what a big majority of the PGA tour players do. Yes, he cheated on his wife! Yes, it was wrong! For people that cannot get over that then that is obviously your own problem. My PGA tour buddies told me that well over half of the tour players cheat on there wives at tournaments. They also told me that the media blew a bunch of the Tiger issue out of proportion. He is obviously in the lime light so there for his mistakes show up more so than other players. And for those of you are thinking it.... I am not saying it is right to go out and cheat on your spouse. I personally don't care what you, TW, or anyone else does in there personal life.

second, Tiger is a champion. He always has been. His problems on the course right now are not all in his head. They are more in his swing mechanics. He his trying to make some major mechanical changes to become better. Tiger will become the world #1 again, he will win more majors, and he will go on to be the greatest player to ever play the game.

The cheating-issue is old news.

What's happening now...a full 1 year on ...is alarming.

Everyone goes on about how 'rusty' he is after a long layoff (not that long: he playd 5 fewer tournaments than usual in 2010) and how his new swing is a 'work-in-progress' and that eventually, he'll get it back (really? last time he changed his swing, it took him just 5 months before he was hitting thE Top-5 n tournaments again and another 6 months before the 'W's started appearing again)

Bottom-line:

If you're a 'Tiger-Fan' and you're 20 years old ( the two usually go hand-in-hand ): then you'll think, "Yeah, he's the Man, he did all this for the world of Golf, he can get it back, he'll start winning, he's flawed-but-arent-we-all" BS, then sure, he'll pass Jack Nicklaus by 2013 and you can carry on playing 'EA Sports Tiger Woods 2 XXX' to your heart's content.

Everyone else who's smart: carry on as you were.

[jldavis73]

I can't imagine anyone being "busier" than Mr. Woods.  WOW, you would require near constant medical attention!

Seriously, I'm sure he isn't the only player with addictions...we all have them.

Originally Posted by Brant17

My two cents on the whole Tiger situation....

First, I have several friends that are on the PGA tour that know Tiger first hand. As far as the cheating on the wife thing is concerned....Tiger has not done half of what a big majority of the PGA tour players do.

[alo1984]

Originally Posted by Chas

This is just a tad over-the-top imho.  I mean, TW can hardly claim responsibility for technological advances in the game.  Yes he has brought people - and money - into the game that otherwise wouldn't be there and that is good to some extent I suppose, but he has hardly been a role model on the track in all respects (let's forget about all the other stuff).  I think he can claim to have introduced a more athletic, aggressive style of play while still having a remarkable short game (in his prime), all of which others have tried to emulate and which has raised the standard of play overall.

Has he ushered in a new approach to anticancer therapy as well?  How about a new theory of the origin of life?  Meaning of Stonehenge ......

This is just silly.  You simply can't argue that Tiger hasn't made huge strides for the game of golf.  To argue that he hasn't is just testament to your negative personal opinion of him but it simply isn't factual.  I have not once mentioned my personal feelings about Tiger because they don't matter.  Facts are Facts.

[Chas]

Originally Posted by alo1984

This is just silly.  You simply can't argue that Tiger hasn't made huge strides for the game of golf.  To argue that he hasn't is just testament to your negative personal opinion of him but it simply isn't factual.  I have not once mentioned my personal feelings about Tiger because they don't matter.  Facts are Facts.

Where have I stated, or even implied, that "Tiger hasn't made huge strides for the game of golf"? You're just making things up.

I spoke to Watson last week - and I'm not talking about the golfing Watson - and he told me that Tiger gave him the idea of the double helix structure of DNA.  Actually, to be serious, I learned that he's more of a tennis player than a golfer but what the hey ...

If you were to take the trouble to read my posts on TW in the past year or so you would learn what I think of him 1) as a golfer, and 2) as a person.  Try not to get those simple concepts confused.

This thread gets more entertaining by the day.

Well said RichF, I think I know which side of the divide you're on.  They'll learn eventually.  In the meantime, sympathy is in order.  It can't be pleasant to be one of those making excuses all the time.

[franky21]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I will admit that every televised sport needs to have stars, and Tiger is the biggest one since 1996 (and Phil of course, but they sort of go together in this equation - the rivalry). Some of these guys getting magazine covers (e.g. Fowler and Poulter - come on, really?!?!?) need to step up. The sponsors can't make money marketing guys who don't make it close on Sunday. They need names and personalities people can remember. That so many memorable players are on the European tour this year is not a good thing for the PGA Tour. To say otherwise would be denial.

i have to agree with you on this if your not winning or on the first page of the leaderboard you shouldnt be on the cover of every magazine. And the europeans are in the drivers seat right now but to the americans defense they arent winning enough to threaten they always play well in the ryders cup but its not the same as winning a major and lets see if louie,kaymer, and mcdowell can win some more. The worst part  about it is that they are not on the tour full time which is bad really bad that isnt helping our ratings at all. If Tiger isnt playing well and Kaymer and Westwood are playing in India that isnt good for golf fans and rules need to be put in place if they want to keep ratings up.