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Tiger Woods will never regain golf dominance


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Originally Posted by RichF

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Is entertaining or was entertaining? I find it hard to believe you enjoy watching him play now...especially when there's so many other better players around.

No other golfer is chasing the Majors record, and in a position to make history so I still enjoy watching him.   That doesn't mean I also don't enjoy watching Phil and Bubba.

Watching Tiger work through this rough time makes him more human.  For years he was like a robot, almost always perfect, now we're seeing he's human and like us he can struggle with a golf club and the mental game.  For that reason alone I believe if he can regain his form it will make him even more popular than he was before (except maybe with women).

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Originally Posted by newtogolf

No other golfer is chasing the Majors record, and in a position to make history so I still enjoy watching him.   That doesn't mean I also don't enjoy watching Phil and Bubba.

Watching Tiger work through this rough time makes him more human.  For years he was like a robot, almost always perfect, now we're seeing he's human and like us he can struggle with a golf club and the mental game.  For that reason alone I believe if he can regain his form it will make him even more popular than he was before (except maybe with women).



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Originally Posted by franky21

How can you not go for the guy that put this sport on the map and made it what it is today.To tell yourself that golf was great before him is just crazy. He dominated and is dominating this sport like noone has ever dominated any sport in the history of sports. Like i said before i dont agree with what he did off the course i am a husband and father and what he did to his family is wrong but this isnt Dr.Phil people what he does on the course is magical and will never be duplicated. He is simply a amazing golfer and golf needs him period.


I'm trying to sort out whether franky21 is really Jamie Jungers or the Perkins lady.



Originally Posted by newtogolf

No other golfer is chasing the Majors record, and in a position to make history so I still enjoy watching him.   That doesn't mean I also don't enjoy watching Phil and Bubba.

Watching Tiger work through this rough time makes him more human.  For years he was like a robot, almost always perfect, now we're seeing he's human and like us he can struggle with a golf club and the mental game.  For that reason alone I believe if he can regain his form it will make him even more popular than he was before (except maybe with women).





Originally Posted by franky21



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Hey the truth is the truth you can hate him off the corse but love him or hate him he is something you will never see again for another 40 yrs. He did make golf what it is and its hard for you Tiger haters to accept it but it is the truth.He isnt a good person but he a amazing talent.

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Originally Posted by franky21

Hey the truth is the truth you can hate him off the corse but love him or hate him he is something you will never see again for another 40 yrs. He did make golf what it is and its hard for you Tiger haters to accept it but it is the truth.He isnt a good person but he a amazing talent.


I never hated Woods. But I never cheered for him an was sick of him an the fawning media by about 1999. I couldn't care less if Woods ever regains his form as long as the commentators stop worshipping the ground he spits on.

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Originally Posted by newtogolf

. . . Watching Tiger work through this rough time makes him more human.  For years he was like a robot, almost always perfect, now we're seeing he's human and like us he can struggle with a golf club and the mental game.  For that reason alone I believe if he can regain his form it will make him even more popular than he was before . . .

Nicely said.  I agree, watching Tiger operate on the course during the years he was so dominant was something special.  Kinda like watching Jordan and Kobe command the court.  In retrospect, when you look at his body of work from 2005-2009 with what many will say was a fundamentally flawed swing, it makes it all the more impressive.  The numbers just don't lie despite what all the naysayers claim.  For anyone to even try to refute this is simply ignorant.  Today, nobody on the professional tours comes even close.  During those years, it was expected for Tiger to win a tournament. Now I'm wondering when his temperament will get the best of him and when his swing will betray him.  But he's got time.

What isn't so impressive is his attitude at the current time.  He's a professional and he should act like it.  Nonetheless, I think some of us here have to accept the fact that as a human being he isn't perfect.  So in that respect, I think Tiger very much deserves the grinding he receives on these forums and from the media.

Having said that, he will win again.  I'm betting not this year, although I hope he proves wrong.  The question of whether he will dominate depends on many variables, all of which are not related to how he swing a club.  Then again, in life I suppose everything you do ultimately affects how you play the game.

I will say that watching the Accenture today and hearing these guys flush it was sick.  These guys are damn good.

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This guy put at sport that was dead on the map and made it popular if it wasnt for him  the pga tour would be worst then the lpga tour. When someone does what he has done for this sport all you can do is cheer for him because noone will ever dominate this or any sport the way he has. I guess everyone will appreciate it once he is retired and all done with golf.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I never hated Woods. But I never cheered for him an was sick of him an the fawning media by about 1999. I couldn't care less if Woods ever regains his form as long as the commentators stop worshipping the ground he spits on.



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Despite all his flaws, I still pull for him to win every single time he steps on the course. I understand why people don't like him; there are ample reasons and there is nothing wrong with despising him. But, for me personally, I think he is the greatest to ever play the game and I respect the hell out of that.

Just look at the way the world #1 ranking is flip-flopping now as one example of his total domination for such a long period of time. We've now had two different number 1's in the past what, two months? After having Tiger remain there for 281 weeks??? It took TWO YEARS of worsening play for anyone to get close enough to knock him from the top. And who really thinks Martin Kaymer is going to hold on to it for a long time? I believe it will continue to change hands until and IF Tiger ever gets back to form.

I will continue to pull for the guy. We have seen glimpses that things are getting back on track, and I for one hope to see that and lots more!

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Originally Posted by franky21

How can you not go for the guy that put this sport on the map and made it what it is today.To tell yourself that golf was great before him is just crazy. He dominated and is dominating this sport like noone has ever dominated any sport in the history of sports. Like i said before i dont agree with what he did off the course i am a husband and father and what he did to his family is wrong but this isnt Dr.Phil people what he does on the course is magical and will never be duplicated. He is simply a amazing golfer and golf needs him period.





Originally Posted by franky21

This guy put at sport that was dead on the map and made it popular if it wasnt for him  the pga tour would be worst then the lpga tour. When someone does what he has done for this sport all you can do is cheer for him because noone will ever dominate this or any sport the way he has. I guess everyone will appreciate it once he is retired and all done with golf.



I think your love of Tiger is making you just as irrational as all the "Tiger haters" your so upset with.  The PGA tour has been on network TV with huge galleries long before Tiger--to call that a dead sport is crazy.  See the WNBA for a dead sport

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In answering the question, What is dominance?

At one time, Tiger won about 25% of the events he entered since he began as a pro. I think for a 3-4 year period before his knee injury, Tiger won almost 50% of the time until the 2008 injury put him on the sidelines.

Will he regain that dominance?

IMHO, No.

The fields are deeper and Tiger is getting older. While age has its advantages, winning 25% of tournaments is incredible dominance. I doubt if Tiger will equal that percentage again. But we'll see. That's why they play the game.

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Originally Posted by mck

I think your love of Tiger is making you just as irrational as all the "Tiger haters" your so upset with.  The PGA tour has been on network TV with huge galleries long before Tiger--to call that a dead sport is crazy.  See the WNBA for a dead sport



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Well, I tried to get things back on topic. Tiger's effect did help popularize the PGA Tour with the masses and led to larger purses, which have helped record number of players become millionaires since Tiger's reign began in 1996. IMHO, younger players do themselves and the sport a disservice when they put TIger down for his golf. They should probably give him a cut of their checks if equity was involved. He brought them fortune. There is a saying about not biting the hand that feeds you. One can speak the facts about his lack of game at the moment while being respectful. Some get it, others don't. Of course, as to Tiger's personal life, he made his bed. What people say about him in that respect, he deserves ... but not the garbage one sees spewed over forums. But then, I'm an older guy. I see that a younger generation tends to vomit onto a page what's in their head without thinking. Or they think about it, but don't care about its effect. Of course, I'm generalizing. The fact is ... we all make mistakes ... we're all human. It's what we do about our errors that makes the difference. Tiger fed the Tour; he will probably do so again. We'll see.
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Franky21:  We get it.  You love Tiger.  However, you are way off base to suggest that there was nothing before him or that there will be nothing after him.  If you did your reading, as you say, you would know about people like Bobby Jones (how many ticker tapes parades in New York has Tiger had?), Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus.  If you truly respect greatness, you should expand your horizons to include those who first made golf popular, and to whom even Tiger owes a huge thank-you.

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Originally Posted by Harmonious

Franky21:  We get it.  You love Tiger.  However, you are way off base to suggest that there was nothing before him or that there will be nothing after him.  If you did your reading, as you say, you would know about people like Bobby Jones (how many ticker tapes parades in New York has Tiger had?), Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus.  If you truly respect greatness, you should expand your horizons to include those who first made golf popular, and to whom even Tiger owes a huge thank-you.



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Franky21:  We get it.  You love Tiger.  However, you are way off base to suggest that there was nothing before him or that there will be nothing after him.  If you did your reading, as you say, you would know about people like Bobby Jones (how many ticker tapes parades in New York has Tiger had?), Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus.  If you truly respect greatness, you should expand your horizons to include those who first made golf popular, and to whom even Tiger owes a huge thank-you.



Nobody played golf or watched it before Tiger came along. No kids ever picked up a club and wanted to emulate Seve, Tom, Jack, Greg, Freddie, or the Nicks. There was no Caddyshack and Bob Hope and Bing Crosby didn't work golf into every movie. It never happened. There were no celebrity pro-ams filled with A-list Hollywood stars, there were no Celebrity golf tournaments, there weren't entire sections of the newspaper devoted to each major.

Of course the purses increased during Tiger's era. The top salaries in every sport went up exponentially in the 90s and early part of the 2000s. Entire professional leagues started up and folded trying to cash in on this trend. A lot of money was made and lost and the losing continues. Whether or not Tiger Woods came along, golfers would have made a king's ramsome in the past 12 years. Whether or not Tiger returns to level he was at during the pinnacle of his career, participation in golf has been in a steady decline since 2008. That's the truth. Fewer rounds and less money being invested means fewer courses are being built, country clubs are closing their doors, and memberships are dwindling. When one considers the amount of tillable land that's set aside for fewer and fewer middle and upper class people to chase a little white ball around, it's not hard to see that golf as we know it is going to end. Probably not in our lifetime, but not too long after that.

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Apparently, PGA Tour Golfers, and undoubtedly, Nationwide Golfers made a larger "king's ransom" because of Tiger Woods. Don't believe it? Read on.... Since his historic win at the 1997 Masters, you can't talk about golf without talking about Tiger Woods. Young, handsome and marketable, Woods brought the game into the mainstream of American life. TV ratings for the Masters, golf's marquee event, have increased by about 25 percent since 1997, and when Woods misses a Tour event, ratings can fall by more than 50 percent. His effect on Tour purses is even more pronounced. When Woods turned pro in 1996, PGA Tour purses totaled $66 million. In 2010, that number is $277 million. But while Woods has done very well for TV executives and himself (Forbes claims he's the first billion-dollar athlete), his impact on recreational golf has been less dramatic. You could even say it's negligible. Read more: http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1977517,00.html#ixzz1FN2WKZyX _________________ During Tiger Woods’s rise to golf dominance, U.S. PGA Tour Commissioner Tim Finchem held most of the negotiating power against television network executives. That may change this year. With Woods, who begins his season today at the Farmers Insurance Open near San Diego, falling to No. 3 in the Official World Golf Ranking from the top spot after a winless year and a divorce, and Finchem touting young players such as 22-year-old Rickie Fowler and 26-year-old Dustin Johnson, talks on new television contracts may take a different tone. “I’d play hard ball,” Brad Adgate, director of research at Horizon Media Inc., a New York-based advertising company, said in a telephone interview. “If you’re the networks, you’ve got to sit there and say, ‘Your numbers are down, your matinee idol has fallen on hard times. What kind of numbers am I going to get?’ There’s a lot of competition for eyeballs in sporting events.” The PGA Tour’s network contracts with General Electric Co.’s NBC Universal and CBS Corp. expire after the 2012 season. Discussions on new contracts will begin soon, Finchem said in a press conference on Jan. 24 at Torrey Pines golf course, site of this week’s Farmers Insurance Open. The event is the first of 20 U.S. PGA Tour events to be telecast this season by CBS, the sport’s leading over-the-air broadcaster. As Woods rolled to 14 major championships and dominated the sport, the value of television contracts reached as high as $850 million for a four-year deal that expired after the 2006 season. Financial terms of the current contracts, which began in 2007, have never been disclosed. CBS officials declined to comment on negotiations, Jerry Caraccioli, a network spokesman, said in an e-mail. NBC Sports also declined to comment, spokesman Chris McCloskey said. ‘Positive’ Impact Finchem wouldn’t put a dollar figure on how much Woods’s play may enter into negotiations. He said that when Woods is at the top of his game it “positively affects everything we do, because he creates a lot of attention.” Because the PGA Tour relies on a wide variety of revenue streams, it doesn’t “depend on” ratings, Finchem said. “We can still eat lunch without it.” Sean McManus, president of CBS News and Sports, said in August that the value of golf’s last two television contracts has been “inflated” by Woods and the network planned to be “monitoring pretty closely” how well Woods plays and try to factor that into the negotiations. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-27/tiger-woods-s-decline-may-lead-to-hard-ball-talks-on-tv-golf-contracts.html
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My random thoughts on Tiger (who I root for, but he's never been my "favorite" golfer):

1) Woods is primarily responsible for the huge leaps in TV ratings and winning purses in Golf for the past 10+ years. To deny otherwise is foolhardy.  Yes, Golf was doing reasonably well before Tiger, but his rise to prominence, put simply, had a huge impact on the popularity of golf.

2) Woods created thousands of jobs in golf.   See point #1.  More money=more jobs, more innovation, etc..   Nike Golf grew exponentially because of Woods.  His impact on the "Golf economy" is pretty amazing, and he is the reason many people have jobs in golf.

3) Woods is a flawed guy.   Who isn't?   Infidelity among married men is huge, i.e., 50%.  Therefore half (and probably more) of the married guys you see swing the stick during the weekends are also swinging their other stick when their wife isn't around.  That's just a fact. His mistake--he got caught.    Call him an idiot for getting caught, but most guys who cheat on their wives aren't very smart about it.    He's not a "bad guy", because I have plenty of friends who have similar problems (and half the married guys on this board aren't angels in their marriage).  He's a flawed guy.  It doesn't make it right--but just the self righteousness is kinda crazy, considering that cheating on your wife is almost a part of the human condition for most men.

4)  I think it is a little premature to say his reign is over.  For crying out loud, he's 5th in the world lol.   It's not like he completely fell off the map like Sergio.  Generally, he is a threat in every tournament.

I'm hoping Tiger gets back at #1 and stays there.    The Europeans are on a nice run, but it is time for an American to take the top spot again! (*USA!* *USA!* *USA!* :) )

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Originally Posted by sean_miller

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Nobody played golf or watched it before Tiger came along. No kids ever picked up a club and wanted to emulate Seve, Tom, Jack, Greg, Freddie, or the Nicks. There was no Caddyshack and Bob Hope and Bing Crosby didn't work golf into every movie. It never happened. There were no celebrity pro-ams filled with A-list Hollywood stars, there were no Celebrity golf tournaments, there weren't entire sections of the newspaper devoted to each major.

Of course the purses increased during Tiger's era. The top salaries in every sport went up exponentially in the 90s and early part of the 2000s. Entire professional leagues started up and folded trying to cash in on this trend. A lot of money was made and lost and the losing continues. Whether or not Tiger Woods came along, golfers would have made a king's ramsome in the past 12 years. Whether or not Tiger returns to level he was at during the pinnacle of his career, participation in golf has been in a steady decline since 2008. That's the truth. Fewer rounds and less money being invested means fewer courses are being built, country clubs are closing their doors, and memberships are dwindling. When one considers the amount of tillable land that's set aside for fewer and fewer middle and upper class people to chase a little white ball around, it's not hard to  see that golf as we know it is going to end. Probably not in our lifetime, but not too long after that.


I think the United States is going to end far before golf is seriously in danger of ending as a sport

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