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Originally Posted by bunkerputt

What the heck are you hitting into?  Is there a net that doesn't show on camera?



Yes, he's hitting into a net. He just happens to hit it way to the right with this shot!

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A few photos from my "lesson" with Dave today. Another set of eyes, mostly. Some good swings. Some a bit too fast. But even those weren't terrible.

I'd lost the feels so I went back to exaggerate. These aren't even exaggerations, but they're good. Not worried at all about the downswing on these, and I'm under-turning, too. I grouped the ball

Just wanted to go through my round of 69 at Whispering Woods to highlight a few things. It was from the blue tees (6500 yards) where we'd held the TST outing a few days prior. Let's take a look at eac

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Originally Posted by bunkerputt

What the heck are you hitting into?  Is there a net that doesn't show on camera?


http://thegolfevolution.com/metro

Specifically this image. You can't see the netting against the cinder block very well but you can see it - and the shadows from it - along the yellow areas and along the turf near the cinder block wall. And of course you can see the netting around the teaching area:

metro_6.jpg

Originally Posted by michaeljames92

Hosel rocket ;-)


TGM 2-0, baby.


BTW, I have a slightly revised feeling I'd like to share. First, consider this image from earlier in this thread:

640x405px-LL-34f1668d__iacas_05.jpeg

I even noted it in the picture, the scrunched shoulder look. Well my new thought or feeling is, from the top, to "get my right shoulder away from my right ear." The distance doesn't really change, but it helps with the shoulder trajectory. Notice how much lower the right shoulder and elbow are in each.

This slightly increases secondary axis tilt - in some others it might dramatically increase it, particularly if their head goes forward (paging Zeph, hello, Zeph-er-ino!!) - but for me it only adds a little, which is about all I needed anyway.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Not worrying about footwork right now (more right foot banking, earlier extension). Just getting P3.5 to P4.5 down.

Feelings I've used (they all work, it's just good to mix them up):

  • Hinge fast, stand the club up, then lay the club down and really feel the weight of the clubhead in Pressure Point #3 (PP3, crook of right index finger).
  • Get right shoulder away from right ear in the transition and downswing.
  • Point right elbow at belly button in transition.
  • Palmar flex the crap out of my left wrist in transition.

Anyway, I'm pleased with how things are progressing given how seldom I hit golf balls (but more than last winter!).

Analyzr Image Export.jpg

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Originally Posted by iacas

Palmar flex the crap out of my left wrist in transition.



I would like to hear a bit more about this one. For example why?

I have been working on the last 2 you mentioned as well. Ever since your elbow post. I think you are on to something there, but is this an element to that move?

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Originally Posted by mchepp

I would like to hear a bit more about this one. For example why?

I have been working on the last 2 you mentioned as well. Ever since your elbow post. I think you are on to something there, but is this an element to that move?


I thought I might hear from you on that.

I feel like I palmar flex the crap out of my left wrist but it doesn't happen. Try as I might I can't do what Dustin Johnson does. Not in a swing, anyway. If I make myself do it and hold it of course I can.

Anyway, the feeling of palmar flexion is described a bit here. This is a good feeling because "feel isn't real" and though this isn't necessarily the best feel for me, it still works.

Analyzr Image Export.jpg

This video happens to be from a practice backswing where I made an obscene loop with the clubhead and my hands and whatnot (steep to shallow), but what you can see is that the position of my right elbow changes as my wrist changes. I think it's difficult to feel something in terms of where my elbow is pointing or my forearm angle, so feelings that change those things but which are oriented elsewhere - in my hands, etc. - work better for me.

What I'm really trying to do is load the third accumulator more (orange arrow showing pointing direction of back of left hand).

Here's a really, really, really old swing compared against one that I let go really long just to show the differences here. Note the flatter left wrist. It's tough to describe but my wrists tend to get a bit "floppy" at the top of the backswing. I can cup my left wrist but still keep the clubface a little shut at the top, it'll tip out across the line, and coming down I get super steep because the weight of the clubhead is already tipped out.

Analyzr Image Export.jpg

The grip, by the way, is much stronger on the right. If 3 is neutral and 1 is Zach Johnson and 5 is Tiger Woods in 2007, I'm a 4 on the left and a 2.5 on the right.

Analyzr Image Export.jpg

What is it really? Again, a different way of loading #3 (or not unloading it due to wrist conditions changing due to a right elbow that gets too punchy). In other words, I'm using what I feel in #3 pressure point (by loading #3 more, later) and the feeling of palmar flexing to make sure that as I cup I don't unload #3, and I'm doing those with the primary goal of changing the right elbow position into something more pitchy (or, as I like to say, pinchy).

How's that? Make sense? If not ask for more. I'm happy to talk about my swing. How much it applies to anyone else, I don't know... ;-)

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I see. I have not been doing it right. I have been attempting to palmar flex after transition, based on what I see in your shots there I am waiting too long. I have been trying for about 3 months now with pitch elbow. Like you, I am closer, but still not there. Your thread on the elbow helped a bunch there, your idea to exaggerate and start flexing earlier may give me some more help on that.

I feel that this post plus the post on the elbow should be in the Swing Thoughts section. 90% of the swings that are posted here are too steep and need to understand this.

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Originally Posted by iacas

Well my new thought or feeling is, from the top, to "get my right shoulder away from my right ear."



Holy friggen crap, Erik!

I just tried this with a few dry swings as it is (checks time) 11:19PM. The feeling was unbelievable! Can't wait to try this on the range (of sorts) tomorrow. Coupled with straightening my right leg (lefty) this felt REAL solid.

To be clear, are you trying to feel like you don't bring you shoulder any closer, or are you trying to feel like you push your shoulder down a little?

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Originally Posted by Lofty Lefty

To be clear, are you trying to feel like you don't bring you shoulder any closer, or are you trying to feel like you push your shoulder down a little?


I feel like I'm moving my right shoulder down and away from my ear. See post #76 or some others in this thread for more on that.

Note that this feeling might not be what you need most right now (or perhaps ever), so caution is warranted. It's working for me, may not for you.

Originally Posted by mchepp

I see. I have not been doing it right. I have been attempting to palmar flex after transition, based on what I see in your shots there I am waiting too long. I have been trying for about 3 months now with pitch elbow. Like you, I am closer, but still not there. Your thread on the elbow helped a bunch there, your idea to exaggerate and start flexing earlier may give me some more help on that.

I feel that this post plus the post on the elbow should be in the Swing Thoughts section. 90% of the swings that are posted here are too steep and need to understand this.

Thanks. Perhaps I'll do something in Swing Thoughts with this topic. The elbow one is in there isn't it? Which elbow post? I know I made a post regarding elbow position and its effects on the downswing. http://thesandtrap.com/t/54238/elbow-position-and-its-effects-on-the-downswing . I moved it. ;-)

Only 90%? :-)

Note that some people can't feel things this way. For some, we'll tell them "pinch the elbows closer together." Since they can't get their left elbow closer, they'll move the right, which will go more "pitchy" which will also lead to a shallower plane as #3 will tend to load a little more (or stay loaded longer).

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mchepp

I see. I have not been doing it right. I have been attempting to palmar flex after transition, based on what I see in your shots there I am waiting too long. I have been trying for about 3 months now with pitch elbow. Like you, I am closer, but still not there. Your thread on the elbow helped a bunch there, your idea to exaggerate and start flexing earlier may give me some more help on that.

I feel that this post plus the post on the elbow should be in the Swing Thoughts section. 90% of the swings that are posted here are too steep and need to understand this.

Thanks. Perhaps I'll do something in Swing Thoughts with this topic.


+1 on this. The community needs an official thread on this IMO. I mention it a lot, but it doesn't have the same effect as it does coming from a pro. Hopefully you get some free time to write it out sometime.

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Originally Posted by JetFan1983

+1 on this. The community needs an official thread on this IMO. I mention it a lot, but it doesn't have the same effect as it does coming from a pro. Hopefully you get some free time to write it out sometime.


Could you and Michael trouble yourselves to tell me exactly what you mean? What do you want to see?

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Originally Posted by james_hirshfield

Swings looking good Erik!!!!

Yeah, check out the shank video. :-) Best swing EVAH! :-D


Originally Posted by james_hirshfield

Glad to see you're putting the facility to great use. We need one of those here... wait, thats a good idea hehe.

There ya go!

Originally Posted by james_hirshfield

(a little more extensor action at p4)

Always, James. C'mon. ;-) It's getting there. How's yours?

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Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

+1 on this. The community needs an official thread on this IMO. I mention it a lot, but it doesn't have the same effect as it does coming from a pro. Hopefully you get some free time to write it out sometime.

Could you and Michael trouble yourselves to tell me exactly what you mean? What do you want to see?


Nothing too specific from me. Perhaps just how it relates to the whole sham of "releasing the club" and why that doesn't actually work or happen with good players. How it closes the face relative to the path quite a bit, so swinging out to the right will produce a draw and not a bad push-fade or something; how it really gets the shaft leaning forward if you're a player who struggles with that.... I think high-handicap members would benefit the most from a thread on palmar flexion, although not exclusively.

Perhaps also how you have to push the hips forward so  you don't hit straight-over-draws and pull-draws? Just spit ballin.

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You did a pretty good job there explaining it yourself JetFan :)

if the hips dont slide, the golfer will only turn and return into flexion, shifting the left arm out. Unless the golfer uncocks the club or palmar flexes, the golfer will hit across the ball. Even with uncocking the club and/or palmar flexing, the geometry changes and maximum compensations have to be made in the shortest amount of time. Something 99% of golfers are unable to do. SOME can... these are the elite few. Just my .2p

Erik, looked back at your pics n vids, really nice changes you've been making.

Def more EA at P4. squeeze elbows and lightning #4. You know the stuff!

I've played a couple of times, hitting it pretty good. But you know how I am with my own swing, come to think of it, you, me, dave and mike are Mr. LetsWorkOn12ThingsAtTheSameTimeEvenThoughWeWouldNEVERGetAStudentToDoIt.  <--- that was harder to type that you think lol

James

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Nothing too specific from me. Perhaps just how it relates to the whole sham of "releasing the club" and why that doesn't actually work or happen with good players. How it closes the face relative to the path quite a bit, so swinging out to the right will produce a draw and not a bad push-fade or something; how it really gets the shaft leaning forward if you're a player who struggles with that.... I think high-handicap members would benefit the most from a thread on palmar flexion, although not exclusively.

Perhaps also how you have to push the hips forward so  you don't hit straight-over-draws and pull-draws? Just spit ballin.



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Originally Posted by iacas

Could you and Michael trouble yourselves to tell me exactly what you mean? What do you want to see?



For me it is an explanation of the movement of the right elbow from P3 to P5.5~P6ish and also how the wrist conditions affect the elbow. You have already put the elbow thread that we discussed in the Swing Thought thread which is my major suggestion, but I think you should add to that this update on the wrist conditions.

Why?

Because a huge amount of golfers who put their swing up on this site (and myself) do not have this elbow in the right position and traditional instructional stuff doesn't really cover it.

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Originally Posted by mchepp

For me it is an explanation of the movement of the right elbow from P3 to P5.5~P6ish and also how the wrist conditions affect the elbow. You have already put the elbow thread that we discussed in the Swing Thought thread which is my major suggestion, but I think you should add to that this update on the wrist conditions.

Why?

Because a huge amount of golfers who put their swing up on this site (and myself) do not have this elbow in the right position and traditional instructional stuff doesn't really cover it.


this might help

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54572/right-elbow-spacing-at-p4

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