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I'm Done Teaching Stack and Tilt (Never Taught it Anyway)


iacas
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Originally Posted by iacas

At the risk of veering into the realm of the serious for a moment (please, let's get out of that zone quickly!), it's not "bogus" at all. The chart is accurate and shows the world rankings of various players. If you want to read data into that, that's up to you... but they simply used data available to them.

Erik, I won't disagree that they used accurate information and data available, but you're also educated technically and understand the proper use of statistics.  Clearly B&P; are contending in their data that Baddeley's rise and fall in the rankings is tied to their S&T; teachings and use that data to illustrate their hypothesis.    Maybe S&T; was his key, or maybe not - all I'm saying is that one cannot properly use statistical data to prove a point in this manner, and that doing so is a bogus way to use statistics.     We could probably also plot teen pregnancies, the value of the yuan, and a number of other factors and get a similar correlation but that doesn't make it a causal effect.

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Hire some big advertising/media firm to rename it? Crowdsource it?

Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

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Originally Posted by Clambake

Erik, I won't disagree that they used accurate information and data available, but you're also educated technically and understand the proper use of statistics.


You're attributing a much tighter definition or application of the word "statistics" to this problem. To what end, I don't know. It is what it is. They're not lying and you're not wrong to suggest that there's more to it than the full swing method employed during the time.

Can we get back to the funnier stuff now? :-) Where's that bon bon picture...

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Get Dave to stop drinking the kool aid, his "theories" on early extension/not regaining flexion annoy me.

btw- a few good swings to check out, to maybe model the swing your now going to teach: Sean O'Hair, Jamie Lovemark, Hunter Mahan

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Originally Posted by iacas

Aaron Baddeley's rise to #73 in the world rankings has opened my eyes.

I'm going to teach students a centered shoulder turn and a one-plane swing from here on out, with wiggle room to allow for a variety of body types, shot shaping preferences, natural ability, and more in such a way that my students will make crisp contact, hit the ball far, and control the ball flight.

I'm going to do this using science, geometry, and physics, and it's going to be conveyed to my students through personalized feels tailor-made to their particular swing, with a prioritized list of things to work on in order for them to get better immediately.

I'm done. I'm out. It's all over. One-plane centered pivot, here I come.


Does that mean we'll get a less word-bloated, more precise, and more meaningful instructor version of Sean Foley?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Does that mean we'll get a less word-bloated, more precise, and more meaningful instructor version of Sean Foley?


Kant! Neuroplasticity! Kinematic sequence! Slightly vertical and on a slight diagonal! Myelin myelin myelin!

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
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Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Does that mean we'll get a less word-bloated, more precise, and more meaningful instructor version of Sean Foley?


Only if you ask nicely and make sure that it's a nice way to be asking what it is your asking about in the nicest manner possible. ;)

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Thank God Erik...  I was getting tired of the smoke and mirrors surrounding Stack and Tilt.  At last you've resorted to something with sound mechanics.

All that talk about a centered pivot, a single plane, a forward leaning shaft, proper forward weight shift... wait a second.

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I am relieved! I heard that the only people who reject s & t are those who study it carefully and evaluate it with a strictly scientific method.

All this talk about the laws of ball flight is a colossal waste of time, especially when everyone knows there are more like "principles" that are determined by how a person feels when they swing their club.

Now, you can teach the Mark Wilson swing. Afterall, it works for him.

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Stack and Tilt's a joke. It's a reverse pivot (obviously) and you definitely have to roll your hands over aggressively to hit a draw, especially if you're a slicer. Release the damn club, people! Everyone knows the fundamentals of golf are grip, stance and posture. And if you hit the ball fat/thin, it's because you picked your head up. Period.

Keep it simple, stupid. Boil the golf swing down into the most simple "just hit it" elements and you'd have amateurs the world over playing better golf and shooting lower scores. Sure, boiling it down makes it incomplete and probably worthless, but let's be honest. I'll take incomplete and simple over complicated and accurate any day of the damn week.

Load your right side. Restrict the turn in your hips. Release the club.

Stack and Tilt has been nothing but a black eye on the face of golf for quite sometime now. This isn't the new landscape of golf we once dreamt of.

Haney. Leadbetter. Kostis. Golf Digest. Golf Channel commentators. Golf.com.

These are your idols. Kneel before your Gods, Babylon.

PS- My back feels SO MUCH BETTER since Stack and Tilt went the way of the dodo. Those rumors about the back issues you get with it were so true.

Constantine

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Originally Posted by nuck81

So Iacas is going to start teaching the Sean Foley method?


Nah. The 5% method is too fattening. Skim is as close as I'll get. Maybe 2%. :-)

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
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What if they would just stop calling it Stack and Tilt and center the swing and the product around Bennett and Plumber.  That is how the other instructors are well known and all.  It would also take away some of the us vs. them dynamic from both sides.  And it would be easier for tour players to get advise from them because they wouldnt automatically be Stack and Tilt, they would just have Bennett and Plumber as their swing coaches.

It is just polarizing, like a religion.  Since S and T has a name it will have loyal followers and stong decenters.  It is like golf is christianity and "conventional golf" along with the PGA are the Catholic Church and S and T is a heretic who has their own ideas and wants to start their own group.  Thing is when all the "Catholics" get fed up they will become closet S and Ters and then eventually.......

haha, just rambling not trying to talk about any real religious topic just making an analogy.  Dont take anything actually religious from this, just saying...I pray with weight on my left foot and with a centered pivot...

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I'm a high/mid handicapper, so take this with a bit of salt.

Always tinkering with my swing, trying to improve, trying to get better.  What I have noticed is that no matter what you try or learn, best results always seem to come when I swing "naturally" without overthinking it, without thinking about positions, wrist angles, swing planes, and so on.  Just take care of "the basics", your own stability, stay in your center, rotate, let the club do the work without too much conscious correctoins or techniques.  My pro says I am analytic and I should try to get more feel in my swing and game.  And funny thing is, it kinda feels how Aaron's swing looks.  I used to be a sweeper too.  Lately have been focussing on my right elbow, retaining the lag.  Have a bit more compression now.  Ball goes as far or even farther then before, but with less effort.  Furthermore, for me,  it is a good way to feel the plane / the club, easier to slighty adjust steeper or flatter for fades and draws.

But again, I'm a 18 capper, so what do I know !

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I think you should call your new method the Sand Trap method...we could call it...uh-oh...it would still be S -T...this is what the conspiracy theory nut jobs have warned about...the prophecy is true...I have just uncovered the biggest secret of all...THE IACAS CODE (play movie trailer in 3, 2, 1).

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Originally Posted by Michael Finney

Someone seems upset......


It's amusing to me that you'd think that. You couldn't be more wrong.

Originally Posted by bcgolf

Always tinkering with my swing, trying to improve, trying to get better.  What I have noticed is that no matter what you try or learn, best results always seem to come when I swing "naturally" without overthinking it, without thinking about positions, wrist angles, swing planes, and so on.

At the risk of being serious... no. Your goal will be to get to that point eventually, but that's not a good way to actually improve your golf swing. I'd agree that many will want to think very little of technique and physics and whatnot on the golf course, but when they're working at improving, you have to do more thinking, more feeling, more things that don't feel "natural." If something feels natural, it's not different and thus not an improvement.

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I think you should call your new method the Sand Trap method...we could call it...uh-oh...it would still be S -T...this is what the conspiracy theory nut jobs have warned about...the prophecy is true...I have just uncovered the biggest secret of all...THE IACAS CODE (play movie trailer in 3, 2, 1).


Shhhh. And ignore those black, silent helicopters and the men on the ropes. Their guns aren't real. They're just expensive bug exterminators. :-)

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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