Hitting Up or Down with the Driver in an Inline Pattern

[Slowcelica]

[URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/112200/] [/URL] [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/112201/] [/URL] Guess what was different… Then click on the spoiler to see if you were right. [SPOILER=Answer] [/SPOILER]

So I just thought of this, would this be why I hit my 3 wood farther off the tee then my driver? Because I'm hitting down but my 3 wood is lofted higher causing my launch angle to be higher?

[saevel25]

So I just thought of this, would this be why I hit my 3 wood farther off the tee then my driver? Because I'm hitting down but my 3 wood is lofted higher causing my launch angle to be higher?

Correct. A lot of amateurs are hitting to little loft. A lot of times they are able to hit their 3 wood further and more consistently because the extra loft gets them closer to an optimized launch condition. Also, most amateurs just don't have the club head speed to keep the ball in the air long enough to consider using a lower lofted driver.

I think it is a misconception that the 3-wood is more accurate than the driver. For one, the driver is larger club head. That adds into confidence of making solid contact. It is overall more forgiving than the 3-wood. So it is very critical that a person get fitted properly with a driver to take advantage of that. I think it is a disservice to the golf game's of many golfers who shelf their drivers because they struggle with a misfitted club.

There is nothing wrong with hitting a 12 or more lofted driver.

[Slowcelica]

Correct. A lot of amateurs are hitting to little loft. A lot of times they are able to hit their 3 wood further and more consistently because the extra loft gets them closer to an optimized launch condition. Also, most amateurs just don't have the club head speed to keep the ball in the air long enough to consider using a lower lofted driver.

I think it is a misconception that the 3-wood is more accurate than the driver. For one, the driver is larger club head. That adds into confidence of making solid contact. It is overall more forgiving than the 3-wood. So it is very critical that a person get fitted properly with a driver to take advantage of that. I think it is a disservice to the golf game's of many golfers who shelf their drivers because they struggle with a misfitted club.

There is nothing wrong with hitting a 12 or more lofted driver.

I think in my case it is more my swing than my clubs =)

[jgreen85]

Is there a noticeable difference in ball flight between "hitting up" and "hitting down"? Or is the delta noticed primarily once one measures how far the ball traveled?

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowcelica

So I just thought of this, would this be why I hit my 3 wood farther off the tee then my driver? Because I'm hitting down but my 3 wood is lofted higher causing my launch angle to be higher?

Correct. A lot of amateurs are hitting to little loft. A lot of times they are able to hit their 3 wood further and more consistently because the extra loft gets them closer to an optimized launch condition. Also, most amateurs just don't have the club head speed to keep the ball in the air long enough to consider using a lower lofted driver.

I think it is a misconception that the 3-wood is more accurate than the driver. For one, the driver is larger club head. That adds into confidence of making solid contact. It is overall more forgiving than the 3-wood. So it is very critical that a person get fitted properly with a driver to take advantage of that. I think it is a disservice to the golf game's of many golfers who shelf their drivers because they struggle with a misfitted club.

There is nothing wrong with hitting a 12 or more lofted driver.

This is what I do.  I have a 95mph swing speed and a 12 deg driver.  I have worked a lot to increase my launch angle to optimize distance.  I play the ball off my left toe to get my angle of attack to close to zero and reduce spin.

[cipher]

Is there a noticeable difference in ball flight between "hitting up" and "hitting down"? Or is the delta noticed primarily once one measures how far the ball traveled?

Yeah it flies much higher.

[saevel25]

Is there a noticeable difference in ball flight between "hitting up" and "hitting down"? Or is the delta noticed primarily once one measures how far the ball traveled?

When you hit up you end up with a higher launch, but lower spin. So the ball will tend to fly higher for most people. Mostly it looks like a more boring trajectory. The ball doesn't start low and balloon up.

Yes, it is noticeable.

[iacas]

Is there a noticeable difference in ball flight between "hitting up" and "hitting down"? Or is the delta noticed primarily once one measures how far the ball traveled?

Yes.

The second line in this image is faint, but it's there and lower on the screen.

[jgreen85]

thanks picture is very helpful.

[RandallT]

Anyone have any launch monitor numbers that compare the launch conditions for these 3 situations if they have same dynamic loft: 1. Hitting down 1* with a 10.5* loft driver 2. Hitting level 0* with a 9.5* loft driver 3. Hitting up 1* with a 8.5* loft driver I would think #3 would be the most solid, while #1 would be a more glancing blow (more spin?) Would launch angles be nearly identical, as the numbers might indicate? My guess is that with the positive AoA, the launch angle might be higher just because it's a more solid strike.

[saevel25]

Anyone have any launch monitor numbers that compare the launch conditions for these 3 situations if they have same dynamic loft:

1. Hitting down 1* with a 10.5* loft driver

2. Hitting level 0* with a 9.5* loft driver

3. Hitting up 1* with a 8.5* loft driver

I would think #3 would be the most solid, while #1 would be a more glancing blow (more spin?)

Would launch angles be nearly identical, as the numbers might indicate? My guess is that with the positive AoA, the launch angle might be higher just because it's a more solid strike.

How about hitting up with a 10.5 degree driver

The problem with scenario 3 is that the loft is way too low. With low spin drivers and low spin golf balls you NEED loft to get distance. Back when it was customary to hit down on the driver. That spin would create lift and help the ball get distance. The problem is this was OK for a PGA Tour pro because he had the ball speed to get the ball out there. For a high handicap player they would suffer major distance loss. With the change in technology now it is better to hit up, and loft up. Primarily because the spin reduction does not produce nearly the same lift. So to counter this you need to loft up to create the launch angle required to maximize distance.

As for your question on launch angle, no they wouldn't. I believe Trackman says that launch angle is 85% dynamic loft and 15% angle of attack. So it isn't a 1:1 ratio. Really loft of the driver is usually not loft at impact.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallT

Anyone have any launch monitor numbers that compare the launch conditions for these 3 situations if they have same dynamic loft:

1. Hitting down 1* with a 10.5* loft driver

2. Hitting level 0* with a 9.5* loft driver

3. Hitting up 1* with a 8.5* loft driver

I would think #3 would be the most solid, while #1 would be a more glancing blow (more spin?)

Would launch angles be nearly identical, as the numbers might indicate? My guess is that with the positive AoA, the launch angle might be higher just because it's a more solid strike.

How about hitting up with a 10.5 degree driver

The problem with scenario 3 is that the loft is way too low. With low spin drivers and low spin golf balls you NEED loft to get distance. Back when it was customary to hit down on the driver. That spin would create lift and help the ball get distance. The problem is this was OK for a PGA Tour pro because he had the ball speed to get the ball out there. For a high handicap player they would suffer major distance loss. With the change in technology now it is better to hit up, and loft up. Primarily because the spin reduction does not produce nearly the same lift. So to counter this you need to loft up to create the launch angle required to maximize distance.

As for your question on launch angle, no they wouldn't. I believe Trackman says that launch angle is 85% dynamic loft and 15% angle of attack. So it isn't a 1:1 ratio. Really loft of the driver is usually not loft at impact.

Agree.  I tested 10.5 and 12 and found I got better numbers with the 12.  I even set my 12 to the highest loft (13.5).  My numbers on the Titleist 915D2 review showed that I could get better distance and carry doing that.  Below are the charts of my data.  You can see that launch angle too low or high reduced carry.  Same with spin.  My swing speed average 95-96.

[FrijoleMaster]

Totally agree with hitting up.

I have had every problem anyone who picks up a driver can have... I played without a driver in my bag for two years I was so frustrated. After a lot of work at the range I can crush my drives and they are straight 80 or so percent of the time 200+.

Tools I used... Youtube... A ton of free drills that really helped me.

[DrvFrShow]

I do better with a higher lofted driver as well. I tried a G25 10.5 for a week and was not only hitting shorter shots with it, but was slicing it pretty badly. Went back to my Callaway 11.5 degree and I got better distance and ball flight - no slice. Stiffer shaft on the Callaway, too. Carry numbers between 215 and 225. Still need better control, though.

[trickyputt]

The antique R1 I hit is supposed to be 11 degrees at the setting I have now. Funny that it matched the loft/speed description from the prior post perfectly.

[Lihu]

The antique R1 I hit is supposed to be 11 degrees at the setting I have now. Funny that it matched the loft/speed description from the prior post perfectly.

I thought this was relatively new? I am looking at a few used ones at Roger Dunn.

[trickyputt]

[QUOTE name="trickyputt" url="/t/44307/hitting-up-or-down-with-the-driver-in-an-inline-pattern/270#post_1100844"] The antique R1 I hit is supposed to be 11 degrees at the setting I have now. Funny that it matched the loft/speed description from the prior post perfectly.[/QUOTE] I thought this was relatively new? I am looking at a few used ones at Roger Dunn.

They just come out with so many new ones, that its a few generations back now at least.

[mvmac]

Justin Thomas, hits up 4.8 degrees, high launch, low spin.

http://www.pgatour.com/video/2015/05/22/the-science-of-justin-thomas.html