Marijuana use and the golf game

[ejimsmith]

Originally Posted by misty_mountainhop

What I use for an avatar isn't relevant to my comments is it? Typical that you'd be insulting though.

You think weed is non-toxic? Smoke away my good man. It's OK, I'm only a post-doc biochemist who works with pharmacologists, most of whom research THC and other cannabis constituents etc. What do I know?

My comment re. the frogs was relevant as the post I responded to was using the fact that weed grows naturally and therefore is fine. It's not.

I should have known better than to dip a toe in this cess pit; won't make that mistake again.

if you're gonna post fake credentials like that, at least try to back it up with a post that's a) on topic, b) relevant, and c) not so ignorant.   keep drinking away though!

[ERLoft]

From my experience, ganja and golf together are a mixed bag. I used to smoke far more frequently when I was younger and had both some of my best and some of my worst rounds under the influence. For me, unlike alcohol, moderation is not necessarily an factor. If I drink 2-3 beers during the course of a round, I'll definitely loosen up some, but much past that and the game starts to go south. With marijuana, one hit can either focus in my game or send it into a spiral.

I do get the perception of more of a 'rhythm and feel' swing under the influence than my sober 'technical' swing.

On the wider debate that has broken out, I'd make a few points:

• Sure, marijuana is harmful when smoked as is anything else you smoke.  Smoke is not the friend of your lungs.  But then again, barbecued meat is bad for you too due to the carcinogens generated in the cooking process.  The fact is there are lots and lots of things that we take in or do that aren't good for us.  Which risks you choose to take, within reason, should be up to you.
• Marijuana was only made illegal in the last century.  There are plenty of conspiracy theories available as to why it was finally made entirely illegal, but there can be little doubt that several influential people, including William Randolph Hearst, campaigned for it's criminalization using false claims of violent or deviant behavior and crime to scare the general public into the theory that marijuana was something that needed to be banned.
• Our country attempted to ban alcohol via Prohibition in 1920, driven by real and imagined consequences of alcohol.  The attempt to ban alcohol was an utter and complete failure.  Despite the ban, consumption declined only by an approximate of 50% during the decade following Prohibition.  However, while consumption declined, crime, especially organized crime, increased dramatically.  In the 30 largest cities in the United States, the crime rate between 1920 and 1921 increased 24%.  Not only did crime increase, but government costs in the form of law enforcement and administration shot up while at the same time, tax revenue decreased, as a previously regulated and taxed commodity moved to the black market.  I bring this up because to me we obviously have not learned the lessons of Prohibition.  Making something like marijuana illegal doesn't make the demand for it go away.  It may help to limit demand, but so long as there is a demand for a product, people will take whatever risks necessary to deliver the product to the market. By keeping marijuana illegal, we are simply losing the ability to regulate and tax it, thus losing what is likely billions of dollars in tax revenues while spending billions in a futile effort to stamp out it's distribution and use.  This fails to even begin to address the billions spent incarcerating otherwise non-violent drug offenders.  On the whole, estimates on the cost of marijuana prohibition range from $10 billion to $50 billion annually.
• As a bit of a Libertarian, I believe that anything that a citizen does that does not put anyone else at risk or damage our shared environment should be a decision left to the citizen.  While I realize that this is a controversial view in the eyes of many, I would maintain that a logical examination of the facts would lead an unexposed neutral person to the same conclusion:  That in a free society, laws that completely prohibit substances intended for personal recreational use are an anathema and will always fail in their execution.  Not only does this apply to cannabis, it applies to every Schedule 1 drug on the list.  Not that I am arguing that all of them should be legalized and sold in your local 7-11.  However, less dangerous drugs such as marijuana and many psychedelics should be available for adults to consume.  Were policy left to me and me alone, I would likely create a sliding scale for drugs, based on the scientific evidence of both their addictiveness and dangerous side effects, with more controls being placed on the more addictive and dangerous drugs. For items such as heroin or crack cocaine, limited distribution through government facilities that also offer counseling and rehabilitation services for those ready to move past their addictions.  Hardly a perfect solution and certainly there's a snowball's chance in hell that it would ever happen, but it's a nice wish...
• Oh, and the line that no one has ever died from cannabis is a myth.  There have been 3 cases of fatal cerebral hemorrhages (strokes essentially) that have been possibly or probably linked to marijuana usage.  Of course it is possible that these deaths were due to contaminates in the marijuana smoked, but I haven't read the study, so I can't really comment on the specifics.  Even so, the number of deaths attributed to marijuana is absolutely miniscule compared to our primary legal recreation drugs - alcohol and tobacco.

My flame suit is on, fire away.

[daniel2852]

Originally Posted by ERLoft

From my experience, ganja and golf together are a mixed bag. I used to smoke far more frequently when I was younger and had both some of my best and some of my worst rounds under the influence. For me, unlike alcohol, moderation is not necessarily an factor. If I drink 2-3 beers during the course of a round, I'll definitely loosen up some, but much past that and the game starts to go south. With marijuana, one hit can either focus in my game or send it into a spiral.

I do get the perception of more of a 'rhythm and feel' swing under the influence than my sober 'technical' swing.

On the wider debate that has broken out, I'd make a few points:

Sure, marijuana is harmful when smoked as is anything else you smoke.  Smoke is not the friend of your lungs.  But then again, barbecued meat is bad for you too due to the carcinogens generated in the cooking process.  The fact is there are lots and lots of things that we take in or do that aren't good for us.  Which risks you choose to take, within reason, should be up to you.

Marijuana was only made illegal in the last century.  There are plenty of conspiracy theories available as to why it was finally made entirely illegal, but there can be little doubt that several influential people, including William Randolph Hearst, campaigned for it's criminalization using false claims of violent or deviant behavior and crime to scare the general public into the theory that marijuana was something that needed to be banned.

Our country attempted to ban alcohol via Prohibition in 1920, driven by real and imagined consequences of alcohol.  The attempt to ban alcohol was an utter and complete failure.  Despite the ban, consumption declined only by an approximate of 50% during the decade following Prohibition.  However, while consumption declined, crime, especially organized crime, increased dramatically.  In the 30 largest cities in the United States, the crime rate between 1920 and 1921 increased 24%.  Not only did crime increase, but government costs in the form of law enforcement and administration shot up while at the same time, tax revenue decreased, as a previously regulated and taxed commodity moved to the black market.  I bring this up because to me we obviously have not learned the lessons of Prohibition.  Making something like marijuana illegal doesn't make the demand for it go away.  It may help to limit demand, but so long as there is a demand for a product, people will take whatever risks necessary to deliver the product to the market. By keeping marijuana illegal, we are simply losing the ability to regulate and tax it, thus losing what is likely billions of dollars in tax revenues while spending billions in a futile effort to stamp out it's distribution and use.  This fails to even begin to address the billions spent incarcerating otherwise non-violent drug offenders.  On the whole, estimates on the cost of marijuana prohibition range from $10 billion to $50 billion annually.

As a bit of a Libertarian, I believe that anything that a citizen does that does not put anyone else at risk or damage our shared environment should be a decision left to the citizen.  While I realize that this is a controversial view in the eyes of many, I would maintain that a logical examination of the facts would lead an unexposed neutral person to the same conclusion:  That in a free society, laws that completely prohibit substances intended for personal recreational use are an anathema and will always fail in their execution.  Not only does this apply to cannabis, it applies to every Schedule 1 drug on the list.  Not that I am arguing that all of them should be legalized and sold in your local 7-11.  However, less dangerous drugs such as marijuana and many psychedelics should be available for adults to consume.  Were policy left to me and me alone, I would likely create a sliding scale for drugs, based on the scientific evidence of both their addictiveness and dangerous side effects, with more controls being placed on the more addictive and dangerous drugs. For items such as heroin or crack cocaine, limited distribution through government facilities that also offer counseling and rehabilitation services for those ready to move past their addictions.  Hardly a perfect solution and certainly there's a snowball's chance in hell that it would ever happen, but it's a nice wish...

Oh, and the line that no one has ever died from cannabis is a myth.  There have been 3 cases of fatal cerebral hemorrhages (strokes essentially) that have been possibly or probably linked to marijuana usage.  Of course it is possible that these deaths were due to contaminates in the marijuana smoked, but I haven't read the study, so I can't really comment on the specifics.  Even so, the number of deaths attributed to marijuana is absolutely miniscule compared to our primary legal recreation drugs - alcohol and tobacco.

My flame suit is on, fire away.

Could you post a link to those studies that you claim show 3 cases of fatal hemorrhages that have been possibly or probably linked to marijuana usage. Because as far as I knew there was not a single documented case that could be linked to marijuana.

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by daniel2852

Could you post a link to those studies that you claim show 3 cases of fatal hemorrhages that have been possibly or probably linked to marijuana usage. Because as far as I knew there was not a single documented case that could be linked to marijuana.

I count at least 3 deaths here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM_vLk1I6G4&feature;=related If this doesn't convince you of the dangers, I don't know what will.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

I count at least 3 deaths here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM_vLk1I6G4&feature;=related If this doesn't convince you of the dangers, I don't know what will.

Do you want to be linked to deaths caused by alcohol? Both directly and indirectly. It wont be a silly, ridiculous commercial that makes no sense either. Alcohol is far, far more harmfull than pot, period. There is no evidence that pot use causes strokes. Period. Sure people will try to blame it, but there is zero evidence. Nada, zip, none. Unlike booze, which can be proven to have killed hundreds of thousands over the last 100 years.

Pot is illegal because oil barons lobbied against it. That is it.

[ERLoft]

Here's the link: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/113/4/e365.full

I think you're missing my point Elvisliveson.  Sure, you can technically die from marijuana if this study/article is correct, but let's examine the number of alcohol related deaths:

• 17,000 plus annually due to alcohol related traffic fatalities.
• 50,000-100,000 annually from alcohol related disease, overdoses, etc.

At an estimated total of 130.6 million drinkers in the US, that means the fatality rate per 10,000 drinkers of 5.1 - 9.0.  Compare that to all cancers at a fatality rate of 18.5 per 10,000.  Hardly an overwhelming fatality rate.

Now, for marijuana:

• 400 estimated annual traffic fatalities due to marijuana.
• Since we only have 3 documented cases of potential marijuana overdose and have no statistics at all related to diseases related to marijuana, let's say for argument's sake that there are 2,000 deaths per year.  I would say that this is likely well off base on the high side, but there isn't sufficient data to say.

Studies show that approximately 85 million people have tried marijuana and that 15 million or so have used it within a month of the study.  So we're left with a theoretical fatality rate of 1.6 per 10,000.

No matter how you slice it, alcohol is the far more dangerous drug.

In any case if this is a free country and society, then what you put into your own body should be determined by you, not your government.  So long as you are not putting others at risk, as you would be doing when you get behind the wheel of a vehicle under the influence of many drugs, both legal and illegal.

It's my evaluation that the prohibition of marijuana is simply not in keeping with the ideals of a country the espouses itself as 'The Land of the Free'.

[ERLoft]

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

I count at least 3 deaths here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM_vLk1I6G4&feature;=related If this doesn't convince you of the dangers, I don't know what will.

LOL, I didn't realize you had linked Reefer Madness.  I apologize for not catching the sarcasm of your post if that is indeed what you intended!  Please forgive my 'You missed my point bit...'

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by ERLoft

LOL, I didn't realize you had linked Reefer Madness.  I apologize for not catching the sarcasm of your post if that is indeed what you intended!  Please forgive my 'You missed my point bit...'

No problem, lol.

[NuclearMike]

I'd fall asleep before I could overdose on marijuana.  Haven't ever really tried, though.

One thing that I've learned is that I can't drink and play golf.  Everything just goes to shit if I try.  I quit drinking in 1998 (I just can't handle it) and golf in 2001.  No correlation, though.  I'm still not drinking but I am back to golf.  That makes me very happy .

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

Do you want to be linked to deaths caused by alcohol? Both directly and indirectly. It wont be a silly, ridiculous commercial that makes no sense either. Alcohol is far, far more harmfull than pot, period. There is no evidence that pot use causes strokes. Period. Sure people will try to blame it, but there is zero evidence. Nada, zip, none. Unlike booze, which can be proven to have killed hundreds of thousands over the last 100 years.

Pot is illegal because oil barons lobbied against it. That is it.

Maybe you should stop smoking so much pot son, it's killing your brain cells at a rapid pace. My post was a joke.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by Elvisliveson

Maybe you should stop smoking so much pot son, it's killing your brain cells at a rapid pace. My post was a joke.

I hadn't watched the vid till now. I was expecting a governement propaganda video, not a joke. My bad.

On that note, if I smoke once every 2-3 weeks, thats it. Same with alcohol. I like to sit down with a glass of good Cogniac after a big meal, or a glass of straight whiskey (Gibsons Finest Special Reserve, or Crown Royal Black) once every week or so. I do not go overboard with either. I havent been drunk since I was 21, aside from  a slight buzz the night of my wedding. I don't smoke or eat fried foods either. I run and weight train 4-5 days a week, and this summer especially, play golf about 5 rounds a week.

But, due to a severe injury (3rd degree burns over my left leg and foot, after slipping foot first into a mould of Molten Zinc at a summer job, I did battle a severe addiction to painkillers. Doctors over-medicated me, and I had no clue how addictive those damn things were at the time. Been clean since I was 21, but it had nothing to do with gateway drugs, like I said, the doctors were giving me 120 dilaudid 8's/month.

[looseleftie]

Hey,

Just a little something to think about....

Anything that directly affects your brain is NOT a good thing, short or long term, marajuana and alcohol both do that.

Have u ever seen an intelligent and articulate 70 plus year old having spent the majority of years smoking dope?? My guess (on average) nope...

Do u see old fat people, my guess, nope!!

If u are smart, then start making some sensible lifestyle choices.. We only have a very short period on this planet.. Live it well!

It is not just the life expectancy that is afftected, but also the last 10 plus years of QUALITY of life.. Live hard young, die hard young for many people.. Sadly my Dad was a pack a day man, died earlier than should have, and last 17yrs, yes 17 yrs of life suffering from heart and breathing problems...

I eagerly anticipate the day when all the research about smoking pot comes in... Everything comes at a cost... It may take another 20-50 yrs, but it wil be an eye opener, and if thats not all, every single medical research paper has stated the earlier u get into rec drugs, the far greater chance of this "social habit" developing into something far most sinister..

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by looseleftie

Hey,

Just a little something to think about....

Anything that directly affects your brain is NOT a good thing, short or long term, marajuana and alcohol both do that.

Have u ever seen an intelligent and articulate 70 plus year old having spent the majority of years smoking dope?? My guess (on average) nope...

Do u see old fat people, my guess, nope!!

If u are smart, then start making some sensible lifestyle choices.. We only have a very short period on this planet..Live it well!

It is not just the life expectancy that is afftected, but also the last 10 plus years of QUALITY of life.. Live hard young, die hard young for many people.. Sadly my Dad was a pack a day man, died earlier than should have, and last 17yrs, yes 17 yrs of life suffering from heart and breathing problems...

I eagerly anticipate the day when all the research about smoking pot comes in... Everything comes at a cost... It may take another 20-50 yrs, but it wil be an eye opener, and if thats not all, every single medical research paper has stated the earlier u get into rec drugs, the far greater chance of this "social habit" developing into something far most sinister..

Weren't you going to give us something to think about? All I see in your post is lies and half truths.

And yes, I do know people in their 70's who are intelligent and smoked pot their whole lives. Including a New York Times best selling Author, and another who still runs a law firm he started in the 70's. You are making up opinions that hold no truth whatsoever.

And do not compare pot to tobacco. Cigs are far, far worse than pot.

[golfaddiction]

Going back to the original question (sorry I didn't read all 18 pages of posts), when I smoke the night before I play I usually do terribly.  But this is because I have trouble sleeping after I smoke, and lack of sleep definitely affects the golf game the next day.

I've also ruined a pretty solid round when someone offered me a drag during the round, so I don't do that anymore.

[misty_mountainhop]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

if you're gonna post fake credentials like that, at least try to back it up with a post that's a) on topic, b) relevant, and c) not so ignorant.   keep drinking away though!

You've obviously been on the hash a bit much eh? The difference with me is when I have a drink, I know what the risks are while you're off (literally it would appear) in cloud cuckoo land.

Credentials aren't fake but I'm not going to bother providing the proof to an avowed idiot.

Here's something for all you worshiping at the "cannabis isn't hazardous" altar:

http://intl.pnas.org/content/early/2012/08/22/1206820109.abstract

Still, what do they know eh?

[cooke119]

Got any to share? Screw golf.....

[WilsonWedgeMan]

Originally Posted by cooke119

Got any to share? Screw golf.....

[Golf Buddy 999]

It is obvious that most of the bloggers here have no idea what they are talking about.  THC has a 1/2 life of over 24 hours or more depending.  It stays in your system for days and will effect you golf, I know because they same thing happens to me if I ingest THC for medical reasons the day before I golf.  It effects my lag putting and chipping the most and sense of spacial relationships on the golf course and swing timing.  Of course it depends on how much one has the night before.  The effects on golf usually wear off in a couple of days. Bottom-line: don't smoke pot or consume THC the day before you play golf if you want to play well.  Now if you just  want to feel good while you play and don't care how you score  - that is another story.