Rules Question: Relief from cart path

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by zeg

My approach, to save time, is to choose a drop point conservatively so that I can be sure I'm compliant even if I don't estimate accurately.  If there's a good lie that's clearly less than half a club length away from the area where the NPOR would be, then you only need to estimate it to half a club length to be sure you're in a legal spot for the drop.

If there's nasty turf I want to avoid or I'm trying to get away from a slope, then I'll be more careful and start marking locations to be sure I drop legally, but it's somewhat rare for that to be needed.

Sometimes the most important measurement can be in determining the nearest point of relief.  It is not always obvious from where the ball lies on a cart path or in ground under repair.  I've even seen it where there were 3 possibilities from GUR which were all within a foot of each other in distance, but because of the size and shape of the GUR, were separated by more than 10 feet in position.  Only one was actually the correct spot, and playing from the wrong one would result in a minimum of a 2 stroke penalty.  If dropping in the the wrong place took tree out of play, or otherwise gave the player a significant advantage, then it could result in disqualification.

[Bigacito]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Not true.  You have to play the stroke as you would normally do it if the obstruction were not there.  Taking an unusual stance or making an unusual swing just to gain relief is not allowed.  The interference has to occur when you take what would be your normal stance for the lie.  If the situation is such that you would be forced to take an unusual stance, and there was interference at that point, then you would be allowed relief, but not if you take a right handed stance solely to get relief.

I saw this video posted in the NY Times and it says you can choose to his left handed.  Of course in this case hitting left handed is the better play in this video but I am not sure he is forced to take a left handed stance...

http://video.nytimes.com/video/playlist/sports/on-par-with-bill-pennington/1194811622291/index.html

[Ignorant]

Originally Posted by Bigacito

I saw this video posted in the NY Times and it says you can choose to his left handed.  Of course in this case hitting left handed is the better play in this video but I am not sure he is forced to take a left handed stance...

http://video.nytimes.com/video/playlist/sports/on-par-with-bill-pennington/1194811622291/index.html

Took me a while to find it, it was under the title 'Rules that rule'.

That is a typical example of exploiting the Rules. Bill takes a relief from the cart path simulating a lefthanded stroke which he is fully entitled to do as it is the most rational way to play the ball and in fact his only reasonable possibility. Now, when he takes relief from the cart path and drops his ball within 1 club-lenght of the NPOR he is free to change back to righthanded play if that is a reasonable thing to do. So, in essence, Bill gets pretty nice relief using Rule 24-2 to his advantage.

Do note that Bill has to determine his NPOR lefthanded but after he has taken relief he is free to choose either side he sees fit. Convenient, huh?

[zeg]

I didn't follow the link, but as described, it's a wise way to play the game.  You are entitled to take "advantage" of the rules when they give you an advantage, and in this case if your best play is an unusual stance, you may be entitled to relief.

I put "advantage" in quotes because you have to be careful---you may not take unfair advantage of the rules, that is more or less to say you must comply with Equity.  When determining the stance and direction of play in this case, you must be choosing a reasonable stance and a reasonable direction of play given the circumstances.  For example, you could claim you're going to take a left-handed swing aimed into the woods when you had a bad lie but an unobstructed right-handed swing toward the green.  You cannot make an unusual stance or direction of play in order to get relief.  So if you're right-handed and you have been playing right-handed all day, you would generally not be able to suddenly choose to make a left handed swing and take relief.

If you're a one-in-a-million golfer who plays full swings right-handed and short-game shots left-handed, then you're probably in business to play left-handed if it's a chip.  The key is that you have to choose an honest shot first, then take relief if you are so entitled.

[NEOHMark]

I've actually carried a LH 5-iron for trouble shots that would severely restrict a RH swing.  These last few posts remind me -  since I'm down to 13 clubs, I need to go find that old POS......

[LankyLefty]

Ive seen Phi Mickelson flip his left club over for an awkward chip several times.

[RC]

Hopefully you can see dangerous, life threatening squirrels in the tree, or a fire ant bed, and drop in the middle of the fairway--no nearer the hole of course.