"The Elements of Scoring" by Ray Floyd

[kevin.chan]

If you re-arrange a few common sense to a check list / book , it make more sense ....( not for all but to someone who "get the message" ) .

[Wisguy]

Well, you're twisting things a bit to make fun of the high handicapper and make him seem ironically dumb. I never said there wasn't value to the points that Floyd makes in this book - of course there is - he gives good advice that would be very good for a beginner to learn and for a more experienced golfer to remember to implement. But >95 % of his advice is golf common sense and is fairly obvious if the reader has been playing for long. I just don't understand how it is that someone who could be playing this sport for however long it took to be a sub-5 handicapper could find much, if anything, in this book that he didn't already know. You'll note that in 5 months, no one can articulate a reason why they found Floyd's advice so profound or helpful. Actually, looking back on this thread, I think it's funny how a TST Forum Leader can overlook at least four prior posts on this thread where I've said the advice was good sound advice and then mischaracterize what I wrote. I don't think I'd want to do business with someone like Turtleback who is too lazy to read what is plainly written or lax with accuracy and candor on a whim like that. Good thing this is just an internet forum.

[MEfree]

I agree with Wisguy in that much of the book is common sense BUT I think it is useful for many people to review common sense principles from time to time as there may be one or two that slip your mind.

Along these lines, I think I remember Jack Nicklaus saying that after every off season he would go out with his instructor and review fundamentals starting with grip.

[newtogolf]

I agree with Wisguy in that much of the book is common sense BUT I think it is useful for many people to review common sense principles from time to time as there may be one or two that slip your mind.

Along these lines, I think I remember Jack Nicklaus saying that after every off season he would go out with his instructor and review fundamentals starting with grip.

I agree, but many of us at times forget to use common sense when we're on the course and that's the point of Ray's book.

There are a number of times (too many) when I'm just a little too far from the green to reach in 1.  The smart play (based on this book and common sense) would be to hit a higher lofted club and leave myself 100 yards (my best distance) to the green right in the middle of the fairway but too often I'll attempt to reach the green with a 3w or hybrid and leave myself a chip or pitch shot from a bad lie.

I think that's the real benefit of a caddie, they will keep you in check and remind you to make the smart play when you have to.  I think the book is great, the problem I have is being disciplined enough to follow his advice.

[kevin.chan]

Sometimes , we read a book like this one is to read his experience , knowledge , how he handles the situation and success story . I find this book has pretty good discussion about course management and some mental prep . I read about the same tips from utley's book and other source of tips from the Internet previously. However , this one strike me the most . Maybe it regroup the strength in my game and minimize my error .

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

Funny how the 3.9 sees the value, but the 26? doesn't.  LOL

Well, you're twisting things a bit to make fun of the high handicapper and make him seem ironically dumb. I never said there wasn't value to the points that Floyd makes in this book - of course there is - he gives good advice that would be very good for a beginner to learn and for a more experienced golfer to remember to implement. But >95 % of his advice is golf common sense and is fairly obvious if the reader has been playing for long. I just don't understand how it is that someone who could be playing this sport for however long it took to be a sub-5 handicapper could find much, if anything, in this book that he didn't already know. You'll note that in 5 months, no one can articulate a reason why they found Floyd's advice so profound or helpful.

Actually, looking back on this thread, I think it's funny how a TST Forum Leader can overlook at least four prior posts on this thread where I've said the advice was good sound advice and then mischaracterize what I wrote. I don't think I'd want to do business with someone like Turtleback who is too lazy to read what is plainly written or lax with accuracy and candor on a whim like that. Good thing this is just an internet forum.

It isn't a matter of knowing, it is a matter of remembering and doing when it counts.  And yeah, when I re-read it at the beginning of the season I am reading  a lot of things I already know, but it is refreshing my memory and putting me in a frame of mind to play smart.  And I am fairly confident that despite knowing what is in the book you make most if not all of the mistakes Ray cites as amateur mistakes.  I know that even after rereading it every year and making a concerted effort I do.  But I lose a lot fewer strokes to course management blunders than I used to.  Can you say the same?

Every time I chunk a 3-wood after a nice drive on the second shot on a par 5 I have no chance of reaching I wish I had reread the play comfortable" section right before the shot, because dollars to donuts I tried to hit it too hard for no good reason.  I re-read it for the state of mind it puts me in rather than the specific information.  I re-read it because I try hard to implement the mindset it promotes.  Re-reading it also brings to mind occasions in the past year when I didn't follow the principles and what that cost me. Re-reading it also reminds me about things I have not yet implemented that I might want to start working into my game this season.  For example the paradigm f chipping as putting with loft.  I incorporated that this year and have had some success with it.  If I was going to read it and then just go out and play the way I always did then I would agree, no point in re-reading it.

As to being a Forum Leader, that is a title/status that was just given to me without me asking or applying for it.  Apparently TPTB felt that because of a combination of the number of posts I make and the how they are perceived value-wise they should give me this status.  I do not consider myself anything but an ordinary poster.  So I do not accept the criticism based on that designation.

As to whether or not you would want to do business with me based on an internet exchange?  LOL  Of course I could make a snide remark as well, and maybe my comment about the low handicapper getting it and you not getting it was one.  But at least my snide remark was based on what you have revealed about yourself, whereas yours is just based on your perception.

I read all of your posts and found them, to be nice, inapt.  No evidence of laziness, and it is your conclusion that I am lax with accuracy (what was inaccurate? that the 3.9 got it or that you didn't get it - and by it I mean the value in rereading the book) or candor (I thought the problem was that I exhibited too much candor for your taste with the reference to the relative HCs).  But I read pretty accurately, like your characterization that the advice is best for golfers with skills, but recommended it as a book to give a beginner?!?.  Or how you characterize Floyd's advice as leading to "ultra-conservative" play.  It is THESE things in the book that the 3.9 got and you didn't, because Floyd's advice is not to play ultra conservative,  but to play smart at whatever level you play at.  So the question might not be about benefiting from rereading, but did you benefit from reading it the first time.

And at bottom, no one has any responsibility or obligation to explain to you why they find this a good book to re-read.  You don't. That is your decision and that is fine.  It isn't a one-size-fits-all-world.  But 5 or 6 messages questioning why people reread it?  Like you are trying to convince people that found value in re-reading it that they really didn't benefit from it?  Seems rather extreme.  If a guy is a better golfer than me and he says XXX improved his game, I can reasonably conclude that XXX doesn't resonate with me so I am not going to do it but a) I wouldn't question the value of it for him, and b) I wouldn't try to convince others that XXX is of no value.

BTW, loved the show.  At least until they replaced Vinny with that other guy.

[MEfree]

I agree, but many of us at times forget to use common sense when we're on the course and that's the point of Ray's book.

There are a number of times (too many) when I'm just a little too far from the green to reach in 1.  The smart play (based on this book and common sense) would be to hit a higher lofted club and leave myself 100 yards (my best distance) to the green right in the middle of the fairway but too often I'll attempt to reach the green with a 3w or hybrid and leave myself a chip or pitch shot from a bad lie.

I think that's the real benefit of a caddie, they will keep you in check and remind you to make the smart play when you have to.  I think the book is great, the problem I have is being disciplined enough to follow his advice.

I agree that the book is a good reminder (or first introduction for some) to use common sense.

In terms of playing to 100 yards out when you can't reach- I think it depends on the hole.  Is the lay up shot less risky and easier to execute?  If yes, then I like the lay up also but do find there are times to be aggressive even if you can't reach.  Unless the rough is really deep or thick, or I am short sided, I would rather be chipping/pitching from 10 yards short of the green than playing from 100 yards on the fairway.

The 14th hole at Copper Creek is a good example https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-8&q;=copper+mountain&fb;=1≷=us&hq;=copper+mountain&cid;=0,0,15119453119220950395&ei;=WMwxUsjJFILoqgH1_4GAAg&ved;=0CKgBEPwS 332 downhill at elevation.  Laying up to 100 yards is a pretty narrow shot, but things open up to the left about 50 yards from the green.

[Ernest Jones]

It isn't a matter of knowing, it is a matter of remembering and doing when it counts.

QFT.

There's lotsa stuff I remember after the round when it's too late to benefit from them. This applies to strategy and decision making as well as mechanics.

sigh...

[kevin.chan]

Play to your strength ... Either it is 10 yards chip , 100 yards lay up , place the ball to your fav approach distance .

[Desert Driver]

First book that I've read that really talks about how to PLAY golf to score. Lots of books out there talk about mental toughness and how to hit great shots, but this book goes over strategies of playing YOUR best game, whatever that is.

I've bought several copies of this book, two for myself and the rest as gifts for golfing friends and family members. I re-read the book a couple times a year to go over the basics that I seem to stray from time to time.

I would highly recommend this book to those who are attempting to lower their scores.

[dchoye]

I re read it again this week. I like the part about trying to get better on 6 foot putts. There's no reason an average player can be as good as pros and make half or more inside 6 feet This puts less pressure on chipping and pitching if we have a 6 foot radius or 12 foot diameter circle around the hole to aim for I was finding Michelson's philosphy of getting into 3 feet with chipping too hard to achieve

[shakogolfer78]

Sound like a great read, so I went ahead and picked it up on Amazon today.  I will let everyone know what I think soon.  Thank for all the great reviews.

[shakogolfer78]

Just got the book.  Read the first chapter, and so far I really like Floyd's approach and ideas.  Like many people said before a lot seems like common sense, but you would be surprised at how many people do all the mistakes he talks about amateurs making and they wonder why they are not SCORING better.

From my little tournament experience I can attest that there have been a handful of times that I have tried shots that I have not practiced or got too greedy trying to escape out of trouble.

All in all I will post all my thoughts about the book once I read the whole thing.

[tefunk]

Just like Shako, I found the book used on the cheap and picked it up after reading this thread. Just finished the book a week or so ago. I thought it was a great, easy, must-read for any golfer. Like other posters stated, there's nothing earth shattering in the book. It was reassuring to read a former pro golfer discuss how he evolved his approach to the game to ultimately be pretty elementary... An approach that any of us can apply to our games. I also liked how there weren't a lot of wasted words/pages just filling up space... It seems too many books I've read just state the same things over and over again to make it a 250 page book versus what could have been a 75 page book. I probably won't re-read the book in its entirety, but I'm sure I'll pick it up and read certain parts just as a reminder. Great book, would recommend it to anyone!

[golfbarefoot]

Great book

[SMOOTH1]

I just finished 'The Elements of Scoring'.  It was a great 'Course Management' and 'Mind Managemen' book.  The book also gave some good swing habit analyses and practice tips.  Books like this I generally highlight and return to in the cold winter months in the northeast and when I feel I need to brush-up on my fundamentals. I'm not one to recommend books to golfers, because a lot are not interested in improving their game, especially if the medium is a book, but  I would recommend this book to golfers of all handicaps who are interested in examining their game.