The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Shorty]

 

. I think he needs to change his approach but I've said that to him as well as on here. I'm not putting him down by saying that, I'm trying to help.

Just don't do it on his site. He'll ignore the comments and/or delete them.

He doesn't want help. He wants fame.

[newtogolf]

Just don't do it on his site. He'll ignore the comments and/or delete them.

He doesn't want help. He wants fame.

I'm sure he'll take some money too. 

[Shorty]

I'm sure he'll take some money too. 

LOL.

As long as it's given in the worthy cause of the exploration of human potential.

[Nosevi]

Just don't do it on his site. He'll ignore the comments and/or delete them.

He doesn't want help. He wants fame.

I don't think he'll get one without the other. I hope he's coming round to that realisation. 

There are many skills in golf, some like putting most people can get pretty good at with enough practice, others like driving distance take a level of natural ability. To be able to compete at PGA Tour level you need to be pretty darn good at all of them. That's why I think the way to go is ensuring you have the ability to do the things that require natural ability first - if you can't drive the ball far enough to play a tour set up then being able to putt on one becomes meaningless. If you hit a brick wall talent wise, you just can't get the ball out there or can't strike irons to the required standard, then the project is over. No snags you gave it a shot.

[Shorty]

I don't think he'll get one without the other. I hope he's coming round to that realisation. 

There are many skills in golf, some like putting most people can get pretty good at with enough practice, others like driving distance take a level of natural ability. To be able to compete at PGA Tour level you need to be pretty darn good at all of them. That's why I think the way to go is ensuring you have the ability to do the things that require natural ability first - if you can't drive the ball far enough to play a tour set up then being able to putt on one becomes meaningless. If you hit a brick wall talent wise, you just can't get the ball out there or can't strike irons to the required standard, then the project is over. No snags you gave it a shot.

I don't agree with you. There are fools who have swallowed the Kool-aid and he keeps splashing it around.

Let's not even discuss his playing ability or potential. He will never be in the best 16 in any club, so the pro thing is and always was a joke.  He stated that the aim was PGA Tour, not top 2000 in the world or B grade club champion. 

The bottom line is that he is not good enough to be competitive at club level. He is not in the top 3 million players on the planet. He claims to have a handicap in the 2 s and 3s but is then thrilled to shoot in the low 80s. He would be beaten comfortably by perhaps 100 13 to 15 year olds within an hours drive of where he lives.

BUT......look at the interviews. They speak to him as if he's actually done it. He NEVER corrects them. He lies about his handicap "I ....think it's.......about 3......   3   point......seven?" he replied  when one guy said he had got to 2.7. He doesn't even raise his eyebrows or smile when the person he's speaking to suggests that he's done something awesome. He  just nods and goes on with the same crap about "deliberate practice", ,meaning he hangs around a driving range for a couple of hours a day. In the same interview he agreed when the clueless interviewer said he was shooting in the 70s in his first full rounds. Dan said that before he had even played a round he had learnt how to score FFS.  This is why I am so passionately against him. He is a fraud.

Look at the morons who write things on his Twitter feed and his website - suggesting this and that and asking if he'll do this or that interview.

Like I've said. Non golfers think he's done it or has come close enough to make me look like a nitpicker.

As Lihu said  -when he saw the pros at Pebble, he didn't say "Heck - I'm out of my league and I have no chance", he said it was "something to work on". How cluelss can you be? Seriously

 

 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Shorty

[Nosevi]

I don't agree with you. There are fools who have swallowed the Kool-aid and he keeps splashing it around.

Let's not even discuss his playing ability or potential. He will never be in the best 16 in any club, so the pro thing is and always was a joke.  He stated that the aim was PGA Tour, not top 2000 in the world or B grade club champion. 

The bottom line is that he is not good enough to be competitive at club level. He is not in the top 3 million players on the planet. He claims to have a handicap in the 2 s and 3s but is then thrilled to shoot in the low 80s. He would be beaten comfortably by perhaps 100 13 to 15 year olds within an hours drive of where he lives.

BUT......look at the interviews. They speak to him as if he's actually done it. He NEVER corrects them. He lies about his handicap "I ....think it's.......about 3......   3   point......seven?" he replied  when one guy said he had got to 2.7. He doesn't even raise his eyebrows or smile when the person he's speaking to suggests that he's done something awesome. He  just nods and goes on with the same crap about "deliberate practice", ,meaning he hangs around a driving range for a couple of hours a day. In the same interview he agreed when the clueless interviewer said he was shooting in the 70s in his first full rounds. Dan said that before he had even played a round he had learnt how to score FFS.  This is why I am so passionately against him. He is a fraud.

Look at the morons who write things on his Twitter feed and his website - suggesting this and that and asking if he'll do this or that interview.

Like I've said. Non golfers think he's done it or has come close enough to make me look like a nitpicker.

As Lihu said  -when he saw the pros at Pebble, he didn't say "Heck - I'm out of my league and I have no chance", he said it was "something to work on". How cluelss can you be? Seriously

 

 

Not arguing, just asking in a friendly way - which bit of what I wrote don't you agree with

I don't think the project can succeed in any meaningful way without some measure of success on the course. I don't think fame and fortune will follow for Dan without it. I'm not saying he'll definitely succeed to any given level with help, I'm saying he won't without it.

Regarding the other bit I wrote, I just feel that you need a measure of natural ability particularly in areas of the game requiring strength, athleticism, coordination and balance. If you don't have them hidden deep down somewhere you're going to come up well short. Learning to score around the green for 18 months becomes pointless if you discover that you can't get there in the first place.

I know you're passionately against him and that's fine - when you put yourself out there you have to take the rough with the smooth. Personally I don't care if people choose not to look at the available evidence (or lack of it in some cases) and draw their own conclusions, choosing merely to believe media reports etc. You never see actual data on his blog and that to me is all I need to know. I deliberately post up actual launch data and video, posted a couple of vids on working on driver technique (but trying not to 'teach' - not my thing) yesterday. Dan will be called out for not feeling able to share his current data (he owns a Flightscope yet you won't find full launch data on his site) and I'll be called a show off because I do. No win situation

I don't care how Dan goes about his plan I just think it lacks too many things like organisation, target setting, route towards those targets, and a few more I could add to move him forwards. His call, his plan. But do I care if he spends his time bring interviewed and being invited to charity golf gigs etc? Not really. It's a distraction, nothing more. 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Nosevi

[Nosevi]

Dan's updated his blog:

http://thedanplan.com/so-much-and-so-little/

Can't wait till Shorty reads it  

[newtogolf]

Dan's updated his blog:

http://thedanplan.com/so-much-and-so-little/

Can't wait till Shorty reads it

Wow, so many words to basically say the following;

• Dan's back is still hurt, he went to Dave Oliver who he met at the McKenzie Institute (shameless plug probably in exchange for free consultation) and Dave suggested some basic stretching exercises any pseudo athlete should have known.  I do the standing version of exercises every day and before practice or a round of golf.  Dan should be careful, those exercises he's touting are not good for people with certain back conditions.
• He quit his golf club because the expense was too high given the limited number of rounds he's played.
• He's taking the rest of the fall and winter off from golf
• He will proceed with his plan in April.

Dan is done, this last post in the blog is 90% filler.  His writing is about on par with his golf and both are sadly lacking a sense of reality.  Waiting until April means 2015 was a wasted year for Dan.  He, like Tiger isn't getting any younger and his 10,000 hour plan likely didn't factor in that his age will continue to work against him are he gets closer to the 10,000 hours.

Come April, his back may be stronger but the rest of his body will have atrophied from a golf perspective.  He will likely take a major step backwards in his progress and scores.  It may take him until August or September to reach where we was this spring, assuming he doesn't reinjure himself.

I suggest Dan go back to photography and give up golf.  The Dan Plan he needs to focus on right now is to determine how he's going to support himself, a family if he decides to have one and his retirement.

[Lihu]

Dan's updated his blog:

http://thedanplan.com/so-much-and-so-little/

Can't wait till Shorty reads it  

I'm glad he didn't give up completely. He's not bitter at all, as I earlier thought. I think he's come to a realization that his plan needed a serious fix to it. Seems to be heading in the right direction. I don't see why he can't get to a decent level of play, only time will tell. . .

[newtogolf]

I'm glad he didn't give up completely. He's not bitter at all, as I earlier thought. I think he's come to a realization that his plan needed a serious fix to it. Seems to be heading in the right direction. I don't see why he can't get to a decent level of play, only time will tell. . .

I didn't read anything that acknowledges his original plan was flawed.  He's taking time off to heal his back and make some money since no one is sponsoring his "Plan" and he burned through all his money too quickly. 

As a reminder, his goal wasn't to get to a "decent" level of play, it was to be a pro on the PGA Tour. 

[Lihu]

I didn't read anything that acknowledges his original plan was flawed.  He's taking time off to heal his back and make some money since no one is sponsoring his "Plan" and he burned through all his money too quickly. 

As a reminder, his goal wasn't to get to a "decent" level of play, it was to be a pro on the PGA Tour. 

He didn't say "My plan was flawed. . .", but he did state that he needs to "reevaluate" a few times.

I just read his entire blog, and drew my own conclusions.

The issue is he's getting older, he can't afford to get injured. His swing has flaws that seem to exacerbate the situation even more. When he started, he was at the trailing edge if his physical prime, so his body would recover from the flaws. Now he's older and needs to be more careful.

My criteria for success of his plan at this point is for him to get to scratch. If he can really get there, I would state success because of his age. Can he get to that level of decent golf? Only time will tell.

[Nosevi]

He didn't say "My plan was flawed. . .", but he did state that he needs to "reevaluate" a few times.

I just read his entire blog, and drew my own conclusions.

The issue is he's getting older, he can't afford to get injured. His swing has flaws that seem to exacerbate the situation even more. When he started, he was at the trailing edge if his physical prime, so his body would recover from the flaws. Now he's older and needs to be more careful.

My criteria for success of his plan at this point is for him to get to scratch. If he can really get there, I would state success because of his age. Can he get to that level of decent golf? Only time will tell.

The only place I think we differ is the scratch thing. Getting to playing to an average of par on a CR 72.0 course in 10 out of 20 social rounds in maybe 8 years of playing golf full time is a far cry from successfully playing as a pro.

Playing on maybe the Canadian Tour somewhat successfully would do it for me. It's not his goal but it would be an achievement.

[Nosevi]

Just reading that back, just want to make something clear. I'm in no way saying that getting to scratch isn't good, far from it. But I know kids who have done it by 15 or 16 while attending school. Guy I know won our under 18 championship at 16, again at 17 and again at 18. He was playing off scratch in less time than Dan would have taken and while just practicising after school and at weekends.

To show any measure of success I think Dan needs to go toe to toe at pro level and show that that can be done if starting later in life. Playing at scratch level with friends in social rounds at his home club just wouldn't mean anything to me in terms of his stated goal. It's not coming up short, it's not on the same page.

[Shorty]

 But I know kids who have done it by 15 or 16 while attending school. Guy I know won our under 18 championship at 16, again at 17 and again at 18. He was playing off scratch in less time than Dan would have taken and while just practicising after school and at weekends.

 

This is why the whole thing is just so boring and unremarkable. The 18 year old who plays twice a week and has a genuine handicap of 3 may have been off 27 when Dan started.

But..had his initial goal to become scratch (and I mean genuine scratch, not DIY handicapping with 9 hole scores and submitting good rounds only and giving yourself pars on 5 holes when you have time for 13 holes) and had actually done it I would have been impressed.

Yet he still persists with the BS. At no stage has he said that he set the bar too high. Nothing impresses him. He just affects the laid back swagger and tries to be cool. Then picks the ball out of the hole, throws it up in the air  and hamfistedly catches it, as if that's what cool athletes do.

NEWS FLASH_______A person with a back injury is advised to stretch OMG, Amazing. What a groundbreaking update. Have a year off and get a pass for no updates because of it. Start again. Pretend you're 3.7 when you rarely break 80. 

But you read the comments on the new post and there are still fools who are inspired and seem to think that he's going to achieve something.

I am more than happy with a shifting definition of "expert" or "mastery".

But again, let's see him make the final 16 of a club championship. Let's see him break into the top 3 million in the world. Then he may make 50 dollars by coming 16th in a tournament with 75 in a tournament with $5000 prizemoney where someone you've never heard of shoots 62.

He insults every decent player on the planet every time he puts pen to paper, types on a keyboard or talks about golf.

The moment he acknowledges that PGATour is well beyond him I'll stop whining.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Shorty

[Nosevi]

This is why the whole thing is just so boring and unremarkable. The 18 year old who plays twice a week and has a genuine handicap of 3 may have been off 27 when Dan started.

But..had his initial goal to become scratch (and I mean genuine scratch, not DIY handicapping with 9 hole scores and submitting good rounds only and giving yourself pars on 5 holes when you have time for 13 holes) and had actually done it I would have been impressed.

Yet he still persists with the BS. At no stage has he said that he set the bar too high. Nothing impresses him. He just affects the laid back swagger and tries to be cool. Then picks the ball out of the hole, throws it up in the air  and hamfistedly catches it, as if that's what cool athletes do.

NEWS FLASH_______A person with a back injury is advised to stretch OMG, Amazing. What a groundbreaking update. Have a year off and get a pass for no updates because of it. Start again. Pretend you're 3.7 when you rarely break 80. 

But you read the comments on the new post and there are still fools who are inspired and seem to think that he's going to achieve something.

I am more than happy with a shifting definition of "expert" or "mastery".

But again, let's see him make the final 16 of a club championship. Let's see him break into the top 3 million in the world. Then he may make 50 dollars by coming 16th in a tournament with 75 in a tournament with $5000 prizemoney where someone you've never heard of shoots 62.

He insults every decent player on the planet every time he puts pen to paper, types on a keyboard or talks about golf.

The moment he acknowledges that PGATour is well beyond him I'll stop whining.

Thought you'd 'enjoy' the update ............  

Edited October 17, 2015 by Nosevi

[Shorty]

Thought you'd 'enjoy' the update ............  

The whole thing is like those threads where a 39 year old thinks he's going to play on the Champions Tour when he hits 50.

When it is suggested that guys like (insert top twenty  40 year olds in the world ATM ) will be the competition they either ignore you, call you a hater or get all huffy.

When you then point out that there are only a handful of spots available through qualifying each year, and that's the route that the like of Peter Senior (multiple international wins and Major top 5s) had to follow they get all defensive.

Dan doesn't even get defensive. He ignores it and just chases the free trips and interviews, with links to these on his prom site.

[natureboy]

Just reading that back, just want to make something clear. I'm in no way saying that getting to scratch isn't good, far from it. But I know kids who have done it by 15 or 16 while attending school. Guy I know won our under 18 championship at 16, again at 17 and again at 18. He was playing off scratch in less time than Dan would have taken and while just practicising after school and at weekends.

To show any measure of success I think Dan needs to go toe to toe at pro level and show that that can be done if starting later in life. Playing at scratch level with friends in social rounds at his home club just wouldn't mean anything to me in terms of his stated goal. It's not coming up short, it's not on the same page.

Those are completely relevant points, but I think you should put it into context of the plan / 10,000 hours. I don't argue against talent, but I think time invested is very relevant.

How long have those kids been playing golf...and not just hitting full shots. I think all practice time is relevant (especially with putting) so a couple of hours every week since they were four or five can add up to skill development. Not saying they haven't still gotten there faster than Dan, but I expect the margin is smaller than what you wrote implies. I don't think they rolled out of bed after messing about casually with golf for a few years and could suddenly play to scratch. Even Greg Norman and Larry Nelson had to work at their games for a year or more and I think you'd have to put them up near the top of the 'outlier' pyramid on raw golf talent. Nelson seems the quickest - started late & breaking par in under a year, turning pro 2 years after taking up the game, & qualifying for the tour 6 years after starting (probably practicing nearly full-time for at least 4+ years (~ 8,000 hours) plus maybe 1,000 hours per year for his first 2 years.

[Lihu]

The only place I think we differ is the scratch thing. Getting to playing to an average of par on a CR 72.0 course in 10 out of 20 social rounds in maybe 8 years of playing golf full time is a far cry from successfully playing as a pro.

Playing on maybe the Canadian Tour somewhat successfully would do it for me. It's not his goal but it would be an achievement.

Sure, but he's 36 years old without native talent in the game. Canadian Tour is no cakewalk, you still need to be in the +3 to +4 range. I would be satisfied if he makes it to scratch.