The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[nevets88]

It is my recollection that he didn't even take a full swing until 4-6 months in (all putting and chipping to start), and didn't hit his driver until after a full year into the project. In that sense, his full swing is almost a year behind the actual start date of the project.

I suppose it can be debated whether that was a smart way to begin his plan.

He started in March 2010. Here's a blog post in June where he talks about getting a chipper in a couple of weeks - he's only been putting. If I started this way, I'd hate golf. 3 footers for an hour, 5 footers for an hour - oy kill me now.

http://thedanplan.com/another-lesson-another-step-towards-the-goal/

[Golfingdad]

I just looked at the time that I have put into bettering my game/playing in the last three years. I work on my game, I get great instruction, but have a job and a young family. I am only averaging about 200 hours per year that I have been able to put in(considering playing time, range time and practice at home). Last year I was able to put in about 225 hours. It is tough to get there at that rate, very tough.

I hadn't thought about this yet, but now that you give me the idea ... Since I got back into it full bore (Fall 2011) I've been playing about 20-30 times per year and averaging about two range visits per week.  I also do mirror/window work at home, and sometimes (super rarely) break out the astroturf and practice putting.  To make it easy, let's just assume that it's all "deliberate" practice.  (It's not) That then comes out to about 200 hours a year for me as well.

So since that time, I've practiced about 500 hours.  Prior to that, I didn't play at all for a year or two, and my entire life prior to that I probably played, on average, 10 times a year with very little practice.  (And I never had lessons, so my practice was always just hitting balls)  Even if we call it 50 hours a year (which is generous), then that means, at most, I'm still not at 2000 hours total FOR MY ENTIRE LIFE.

Holy moly, 10k hours is along time!!!!

The only thing I can say, definitively, that I've practiced deliberately for at least 10,000 hours - and I know I am world class at this - is sleep!!

[flopster]

You're being a little hard on him, because I think his original goal was born out of ignorance. Even the current goal of + is still too light to compete successfully. I think his goal is just to make a cut or two in a pro tournament. This might be possible with a +2 handicap.

Will he be able to do it? That's the question.

Umm No, I play alongside guys in that range and there is no way on earth they could compete, also a guy who is at +3.4 last time we played and it's beyond him as well. I would think at least a +4.5 would get you at qualifying for the Nationwide and of course there are thousands of guys playing at this level. This whole quest was doomed from the onset but it is interesting to see his progression and Dan is going to be a vey good golfer by the time this is done just not Tour good. For Dan he has to have a breakthrough with his swing and I think he has a good chance of finding it with the amount of hours left in this journey and he may reach +2. If he doesn't he's going to stall somewhere just above scratch.

[nevets88]

The only thing I can say, definitively, that I've practiced deliberately for at least 10,000 hours - and I know I am world class at this - is sleep!!

Sleep is good. Sleep is your friend. It's where some experts think consolidation of learning is going on.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="cipher" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-*********er/840_30#post_958814"]   I just looked at the time that I have put into bettering my game/playing in the last three years. I work on my game, I get great instruction, but have a job and a young family. I am only averaging about 200 hours per year that I have been able to put in(considering playing time, range time and practice at home). Last year I was able to put in about 225 hours. It is tough to get there at that rate, very tough. [/QUOTE] I hadn't thought about this yet, but now that you give me the idea ... Since I got back into it full bore (Fall 2011) I've been playing about 20-30 times per year and averaging about two range visits per week.  I also do mirror/window work at home, and sometimes (super rarely) break out the astroturf and practice putting.  To make it easy, let's just assume that it's all "deliberate" practice.  (It's not) That then comes out to about 200 hours a year for me as well. So since that time, I've practiced about 500 hours.  Prior to that, I didn't play at all for a year or two, and my entire life prior to that I probably played, on average, 10 times a year with very little practice.  (And I never had lessons, so my practice was always just hitting balls)  Even if we call it 50 hours a year (which is generous), then that means, at most, I'm still not at 2000 hours total FOR MY ENTIRE LIFE. Holy moly, 10k hours is along time!!!! The only thing I can say, definitively, that I've practiced deliberately for at least 10,000 hours - and I know I am world class at this - is sleep!! :beer: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

That's why it is only really feasible if you are a kid. No adult can normally do this, unless they somehow convince other adults to contribute money for you to do it.

[cipher]

That's why it is only really feasible if you are a kid.

No adult can normally do this, unless they somehow convince other adults to contribute money for you to do it.

Are you talking about the goal or the hours?  I think it is possible as an adult, if you have the talent for it.  I think that is what matters more than anything.

[Golfingdad]

That's why it is only really feasible if you are a kid.

No adult can normally do this, unless they somehow convince other adults to contribute money for you to do it.

Heck, I'm only 40 years old!!  It's still feasible for me ... it will just happen when I'm ... 81 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Big C]

I'd love to know who agrees with that idea of learning. To me, it seems blindingly obvious to just start all aspects simultaneously. Putting some, chipping/pitching, bunker shots, short irons, long irons, driver. All a little bit every day. Even if you just learn a couple basics for each area every day. But months on putting?? Whew. What a waste it seems.  Isn't there a point of diminishing returns each day with a putter?  Maybe there's some science behind his decision, and my "blindingly obvious" hunch is incorrect.

I agree. To me it seems like a terrible waste of valuable time, but maybe there are others who feel differently. I am sure he was coached on this strategy by someone.

Now, if he began with a few months of chipping, pitching and putting before graduating to a full swing, that would be a bit more understandable - since the chipping/pitching process is basically a minor version of the swing. But I think he set himself back by ONLY rolling putts to start out.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

That's why it is only really feasible if you are a kid.

No adult can normally do this, unless they somehow convince other adults to contribute money for you to do it.

Heck, I'm only 40 years old!!  It's still feasible for me ... it will just happen when I'm ... 81 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmm, you'll have at least a few years in retirement for you to devote all your time into it. By then, you'll probably need less sleep too!

Champions Tour by 2055?

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

That's why it is only really feasible if you are a kid.

No adult can normally do this, unless they somehow convince other adults to contribute money for you to do it.

Are you talking about the goal or the hours?  I think it is possible as an adult, if you have the talent for it.  I think that is what matters more than anything.

Yes, I meant the time commitment.

If you have the talent for anything, you can bring it out any time.

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/stats/40_and_over_club.aspx

[Golfingdad]

I agree. To me it seems like a terrible waste of valuable time, but maybe there are others who feel differently. I am sure he was coached on this strategy by someone.

Now, if he began with a few months of chipping, pitching and putting before graduating to a full swing, that would be a bit more understandable - since the chipping/pitching process is basically a minor version of the swing. But I think he set himself back by ONLY rolling putts to start out.

Yeah, presumably he consulted a coach before he started that goofy plan.  I don't know who that coach is, and it seems like a cockamamy (sp??) plan, but who knows for sure.

Hmm, you'll have at least a few years in retirement for you to devote all your time into it. By then, you'll probably need less sleep too!

Champions Tour by 2055?

I'm also not factoring in the possibility that my kids will be enthusiastic about golf, and if so, instead of squeezing in time to play without them, then I can spend copious amounts of time playing WITH them!

So maybe I'll only be 74 when I get to my 10,000 hours!!!!!!!!!! ;)

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Hmm, you'll have at least a few years in retirement for you to devote all your time into it. By then, you'll probably need less sleep too!

Champions Tour by 2055?

I'm also not factoring in the possibility that my kids will be enthusiastic about golf, and if so, instead of squeezing in time to play without them, then I can spend copious amounts of time playing WITH them!

So maybe I'll only be 74 when I get to my 10,000 hours!!!!!!!!!! ;)

Yes,actually. This is the main reason why I took up golf.

I am actually good enough for my own golfing happiness, but I just want to have that good swing because it feels so nice when you get it right.

[RetroJFrancisco]

Umm No, I play alongside guys in that range and there is no way on earth they could compete, also a guy who is at +3.4 last time we played and it's beyond him as well. I would think at least a +4.5 would get you at qualifying for the Nationwide and of course there are thousands of guys playing at this level. This whole quest was doomed from the onset but it is interesting to see his progression and Dan is going to be a vey good golfer by the time this is done just not Tour good. For Dan he has to have a breakthrough with his swing and I think he has a good chance of finding it with the amount of hours left in this journey and he may reach +2. If he doesn't he's going to stall somewhere just above scratch.

Gotta disagree man, +5 players would easily qualify for nationwide tour, thats 1 in 100million sort of stuff.. Most of the current tour players turned pro off around +2/+3

You'd be hard pressed to find MANY who turned pro off +5 or lower, also its worth noting that here in the UK (handicapping system) +5 is a virtual impossibility.. +3 is usually as low as anyone can get without being a superstar.

[newtogolf]

Gotta disagree man, +5 players would easily qualify for nationwide tour, thats 1 in 100million sort of stuff.. Most of the current tour players turned pro off around +2/+3

You'd be hard pressed to find MANY who turned pro off +5 or lower, also its worth noting that here in the UK (handicapping system) +5 is a virtual impossibility.. +3 is usually as low as anyone can get without being a superstar.

+5 in UK with a heavy mix of tournaments at different courses I'd agree.  +5 in United States with 80% or more of their rounds coming from a home course, I doubt they'd qualify.

[Golfingdad]

Gotta disagree man, +5 players would easily qualify for nationwide tour, thats 1 in 100million sort of stuff.. Most of the current tour players turned pro off around +2/+3

You'd be hard pressed to find MANY who turned pro off +5 or lower, also its worth noting that here in the UK (handicapping system) +5 is a virtual impossibility.. +3 is usually as low as anyone can get without being a superstar.

Yeah, I estimated the math at one point last year and the majority of guys on the PGA Tour (not Web.com, PGA) were in the +5 or +6 range.  I think the top of the heap (as in Rory or Phil or Tiger) were maybe +7, +8 ish.

[Golfingdad]

+5 in UK with a heavy mix of tournaments at different courses I'd agree.  +5 in United States with 80% or more of their rounds coming from a home course, I doubt they'd qualify.

Remember, though ... somebody who is good enough to be a +5 isn't going to be a "club" type player who just goofs around at one course.  Anybody who works that hard and is that talented is playing tournaments all over.

It's also extremely unlikely you'll find anybody faking their way to that level either (gimmes, mulligans, etc) like you would find with people who have fake 10 caps or 15 caps.

[newtogolf]

Remember, though ... somebody who is good enough to be a +5 isn't going to be a "club" type player who just goofs around at one course.  Anybody who works that hard and is that talented is playing tournaments all over.

It's also extremely unlikely you'll find anybody faking their way to that level either (gimmes, mulligans, etc) like you would find with people who have fake 10 caps or 15 caps.

Agreed, my point was a +5 is tougher to achieve outside the US where scores must come from tournament play.  A +5 in US is a very good player but given how our handicap system works they might not be as tournament ready.

[RetroJFrancisco]

+5 in UK with a heavy mix of tournaments at different courses I'd agree.  +5 in United States with 80% or more of their rounds coming from a home course, I doubt they'd qualify.

I'm probably not in the position to comment on US HCapping from over this end of the pond, but a solid +1 handicapper (consistently shoots -1 obviously) would qualify for the cut week in/week out on the lower tours regardless of event or course..

My best mate turned pro off +2 (was a shaky plus two at that! I've seen him shoot high 80s) and routinely makes cuts week after week..

The top 100 in the world really are a different breed.. But from what ive encountered over my few years of highly highly competitive golf: The pro's on TV really aren't what people make them out to be.