The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Pretzel]

Given that you hold the club on the end, getting enough torque to actually bend a shaft such that it would make any real difference seems like it would be quite difficult to me. This effect must be very small.

Holding it at the end with a weight on tree other end is the near optimal condition for bending it if you're only holding it in one spot actually. You can actually see a Senior flex club flex back and forth if you waggle it firmly. Stiffer iron shafts are just more resistant to this flexing and it doesn't flex without a high swing speed. The amount of flex in a properly fitted shaft will be similar for people of all setting speeds.

[iacas]

Dan is not interested in lessons, he seems to think he has the swing down and his problems are equipment or mental.

This.

[flopster]

Who here thinks he has actually taken a look in here? When Dan Plan gets googled this website is on the front page. I'm sure he's looked at some point but will not engage us in any discussion.

[mchepp]

Who here thinks he has actually taken a look in here? When Dan Plan gets googled this website is on the front page. I'm sure he's looked at some point but will not engage us in any discussion.

He may have read the first few pages and moved on. As I said before all the comments get to a point where they are mostly noise. He can't tell good ideas from bad ones. The internet is full of bad information, you need to find the good sources and stick with them.

[Lihu]

If you make no progress for this many years of playing 6 hours a day, most people would lose interest. In other words, accept defeat.

The main issue with the Dan plan is that he is not even built correctly for the task at hand. It's like saying a person 4'10" can play in the NBA if he puts 10,000 hours into it. If his plan was to become the CEO of a major Software corporation with 10,000 hours of work, I would say he has a really good chance of success.

If you have an affinity to any activity, generally, it means that you could do well in it if you spent the time to get good. If you never even tried it and just out of the blue decide that you can do well if you put 10,000 hours into it, that's not going to happen. For example, if he were a baseball player or some kind of athlete in the past, he could stand a chance.

This project was doomed from the start, because he did not choose something he was enjoying already.

I'll go further to say that he might not even make a good instructor.

He might still become a golf professional by taking his analytical skills into play, somehow.

I pulled up my first post in this thread, and I was about to state something like "I though it would have a chance to succeed. . ." Actually, I never thought this project could succeed .

To be honest, though, I had no idea what it takes to become a pro, much less to even become a 12.8 handicap at the time either. I only looked at the other sports where there are really good athletes.

An example I can relate to is Olympic Archery. First I need to somewhat establish that archery is a "sport". It entails pulling a 50 pound recurve bow back and holding it for 4-7 seconds 300-700 times a day and shooting it into a quarter sized target from 18m or a personal sized pie sized target from 70m/90m. I would say it takes physical strength and accuracy, and there are people who have struggled for decades to get better at this sport. They shoot 100-200 arrows per day, and never really get better than shooting a 15cm grouping from 18m. They shoot in the 240-250s. I suppose this is comparable to shooting bogey golf. The ones who are good get to the 250s within a year or so, and into the 270s in another one or two years. They start shooting perfect 300s within 3-4 years. If I were to look at Dan's golf performance, I would say that he dedicated his life to shooting in the 270s which is really good, but not competitive to people who shoot 1190s with almost 4 perfect scores over two days. There is a world of difference between the two.

Another example is skiing, which I hope no one questions as a sport. I know a good number of people who ski at a very high level of competency, and they are not even close to the speeds that Olympic skiers can go. I would say much slower. The difference in the entire field of some Olympic events is something like

Some people can take up a new sport like golf and start getting really good within a relatively short period of time. Other people struggle for one reason or another for more. Then there are the rare prodigies who start shooting well within a year of taking up the game and can even get to the highest levels of performance. I would guess that there are people who have shot 72 on a 72 CR course within a year of starting?

In any case, the people who have some affinity to doing well in a sport end up demonstrating it right away. No amount of practice can replace this talent. However, no amount of talent can overcome the need to do concerted and effective practice as mentioned in "The Talent Code" and, of course, LSW. This is because many other talented people are already practicing effectively, and raised the bar for excellence. For instance, shooting in the mid-60s seems to be what most of the top 2000 golfers can already do on standard regulation courses?

So, I have a difficult time being fair to Dan, because he started with a premise that with no particular talent he could become one of the top players in the world. Whereas, my experience has shown that one needs the natural talent and the "10,000" hours of practice to be within, let's say, the top 2000 players.

[nevets88]

I was hoping the plan might help in the instruction sense. Obviously I don't think it does and there is potential for misleading people, yes, but I don't think his sphere of influence is that broad and anyone looking deeper into his methodology, with common sense, should be able to figure out not to follow it. From someone with more than a superficial knowledge of golf and instruction, I think he makes golf look harder than it is, although it is hard to begin with. I'm glad for anyone's he's inspired, I just won't let them know, if unaware, his achievements are not as great as they seem.

[garybbq]

I was hoping the plan might help in the instruction sense. Obviously I don't think it does and there is potential for misleading people, yes, but I don't think his sphere of influence is that broad and anyone looking deeper into his methodology, with common sense, should be able to figure out not to follow it. From someone with more than a superficial knowledge of golf and instruction, I think he makes golf look harder than it is, although it is hard to begin with. I'm glad for anyone's he's inspired, I just won't let them know, if unaware, his achievements are not as great as they seem.

What achievements are you referring to?

[nevets88]

12/7: http://thedanplan.com/better-late-than-never/

Quote:

Better late than never, I keep telling myself.

Potentially, this could be a honeymoon period, but from what I have seen and felt thus far I’d say I have finally found gear that truly fits my swing.  I think for the past 1.5 years I have been trying to adapt my swing to my sticks, but my eyes have been opened and I now truly appreciate how much of a difference small changes can make in your equipment.

...

the divots are flush in the sod creating nice rectangular pelts and I don’t have to hold on to prevent the ball from hooking.  I can really get through it and my two shots are either a nice little draw or a miss of a slight push.  It’s remarkable and the best thing that’s happened to my game in quite some time.

...

The point that I have learned from all of this is that if you have been struggling with something for some time it’s good to look at all of the reasons that may be getting in your way.  At the level that I am currently, a slight change in gear can be a stroke or two per round either way.  In golf, a couple of strokes makes a huge difference.  Now if I can also gain some confidence in my tee shots by having a driver and 3-wood that I trust I can potentially gain a stroke or two there as well.  It won’t make an overnight change, but confidence is key and I now have that from 3-iron to 58 degree wedge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garybbq

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

I was hoping the plan might help in the instruction sense. Obviously I don't think it does and there is potential for misleading people, yes, but I don't think his sphere of influence is that broad and anyone looking deeper into his methodology, with common sense, should be able to figure out not to follow it. From someone with more than a superficial knowledge of golf and instruction, I think he makes golf look harder than it is, although it is hard to begin with. I'm glad for anyone's he's inspired, I just won't let them know, if unaware, his achievements are not as great as they seem.

What achievements are you referring to?

Handicap, deliberate hours practiced.

[garybbq]

Oh, well I guess I don't really see practicing for 4+ years and getting to a 7 handicap that much of an accomplishment.

[nevets88]

Oh, well I guess I don't really see practicing for 4+ years and getting to a 7 handicap that much of an accomplishment.

It is, but full time? Many people work full time jobs and accomplish the same. It's an achievement, but imho, he could have done it faster.

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

12/7: http://thedanplan.com/better-late-than-never/

Quote:

Better late than never, I keep telling myself.

Potentially, this could be a honeymoon period, but from what I have seen and felt thus far I’d say I have finally found gear that truly fits my swing.  I think for the past 1.5 years I have been trying to adapt my swing to my sticks, but my eyes have been opened and I now truly appreciate how much of a difference small changes can make in your equipment.

...

the divots are flush in the sod creating nice rectangular pelts and I don’t have to hold on to prevent the ball from hooking.  I can really get through it and my two shots are either a nice little draw or a miss of a slight push.  It’s remarkable and the best thing that’s happened to my game in quite some time.

...

The point that I have learned from all of this is that if you have been struggling with something for some time it’s good to look at all of the reasons that may be getting in your way.  At the level that I am currently, a slight change in gear can be a stroke or two per round either way.  In golf, a couple of strokes makes a huge difference.  Now if I can also gain some confidence in my tee shots by having a driver and 3-wood that I trust I can potentially gain a stroke or two there as well.  It won’t make an overnight change, but confidence is key and I now have that from 3-iron to 58 degree wedge.

He sounds pretty upbeat about his equipment matching his current swing. He should acknowledge at some point, however, that his swing will need to evolve, and that it will likely be an iterative process. And an expensive one at that:

- Analyze swing

- Make specific improvements to small things based on expert feedback

- Solidify swing (takes time, not just a one or two blog posts, as he gives the impression sometimes)

- Repeat above swing fixes as needed... or continue below...

- Analyze equipment

- Make improvements and purchases based on expert feedback to match the current swing

- Repeat from the top and hope that none of the paths you went down were dead-ends or steps backward (if expert feedback wrong, or you implemented wrong)

The expert feedback and equipment purchases are not cheap. And let's face it, his swing is likely not in a place that will take him to top levels, so there's an immense amount of work to do (and money to spend).

The "better late than never" comment gives the impression that he's done, and has checked that box needed to have the correct iron set to achieve his goal. In reality, it will likely be iterative small steps.

Good for him for staying positive though. Time is relentlessly ticking.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandallT

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

12/7: http://thedanplan.com/better-late-than-never/

Quote:

Better late than never, I keep telling myself.

Potentially, this could be a honeymoon period, but from what I have seen and felt thus far I’d say I have finally found gear that truly fits my swing.  I think for the past 1.5 years I have been trying to adapt my swing to my sticks, but my eyes have been opened and I now truly appreciate how much of a difference small changes can make in your equipment.

...

the divots are flush in the sod creating nice rectangular pelts and I don’t have to hold on to prevent the ball from hooking.  I can really get through it and my two shots are either a nice little draw or a miss of a slight push.  It’s remarkable and the best thing that’s happened to my game in quite some time.

...

The point that I have learned from all of this is that if you have been struggling with something for some time it’s good to look at all of the reasons that may be getting in your way.  At the level that I am currently, a slight change in gear can be a stroke or two per round either way.  In golf, a couple of strokes makes a huge difference.  Now if I can also gain some confidence in my tee shots by having a driver and 3-wood that I trust I can potentially gain a stroke or two there as well.  It won’t make an overnight change, but confidence is key and I now have that from 3-iron to 58 degree wedge.

He sounds pretty upbeat about his equipment matching his current swing. He should acknowledge at some point, however, that his swing will need to evolve, and that it will likely be an iterative process. And an expensive one at that:

- Analyze swing

- Make specific improvements to small things based on expert feedback

- Solidify swing (takes time, not just a one or two blog posts, as he gives the impression sometimes)

- Repeat above swing fixes as needed... or continue below...

- Analyze equipment

- Make improvements and purchases based on expert feedback to match the current swing

- Repeat from the top and hope that none of the paths you went down were dead-ends or steps backward (if expert feedback wrong, or you implemented wrong)

The expert feedback and equipment purchases are not cheap. And let's face it, his swing is likely not in a place that will take him to top levels, so there's an immense amount of work to do (and money to spend).

The "better late than never" comment gives the impression that he's done, and has checked that box needed to have the correct iron set to achieve his goal. In reality, it will likely be iterative small steps.

Good for him for staying positive though. Time is relentlessly ticking.

I agree that he sounds pretty upbeat. He stated that shot a 74 one of the days, and that's pretty substantially good considering he also stated that he missed a few 8-10 foot birdies. It was an "easy" 74.

What would be interesting if some people asked him to update some videos with his new "sticks". Maybe even some random swing videos on the course or at the range or even into a net.

[bkuehn1952]

Has anyone offered some direct advice to Dan?  Posted on his website?

[Pretzel]

Has anyone offered some direct advice to Dan?  Posted on his website?

Yes. He glosses over all the comments except those that lavish praise upon him for his "hard work and dedication".

I suggested that he use the Flightscope he is borrowing to give people an idea of his progress since last January's Trackman combine. He brushed me off without even a reply.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkuehn1952

Has anyone offered some direct advice to Dan?  Posted on his website?

Yes. He glosses over all the comments except those that lavish praise upon him for his "hard work and dedication".

I suggested that he use the Flightscope he is borrowing to give people an idea of his progress since last January's Trackman combine. He brushed me off without even a reply.

Even without Flightscope, as he might not be able to keep it long enough, he should be able to post some simple swing videos.

BTW, a combine test is something like $50 to $125. On a side note, I was thinking of starting to do it to track my progress this up coming year, if I can find a cheap enough one to do every three or four months.

[Pretzel]

Even without Flightscope, as he might not be able to keep it long enough, he should be able to post some simple swing videos.

BTW, a combine test is something like $50 to $125. On a side note, I was thinking of starting to do it to track my progress this up coming year, if I can find a cheap enough one to do every three or four months.

I'm somewhat interested in trying one of those combines next year just to see what the results would be like. How would I find a location that offers a service such as that?

I didn't realize it was something you had to pay to do. I just figured that Dan could chart the same type of shots and compared averages to the averages he had listed from last January. The swing videos would be a nice touch as well.

[garybbq]

I commented that he complained about his driver swing but never posts a swing video and all he needs is a phone to do it. No reply

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Even without Flightscope, as he might not be able to keep it long enough, he should be able to post some simple swing videos.

BTW, a combine test is something like $50 to $125. On a side note, I was thinking of starting to do it to track my progress this up coming year, if I can find a cheap enough one to do every three or four months.

I'm somewhat interested in trying one of those combines next year just to see what the results would be like. How would I find a location that offers a service such as that?

I didn't realize it was something you had to pay to do. I just figured that Dan could chart the same type of shots and compared averages to the averages he had listed from last January. The swing videos would be a nice touch as well.

I forgot where in CO you are located, but here is one place outside of Denver, http://redskygolfclub.com/info/acd.index.asp

There are a few more that I found. I am lucky to have one about 20 miles away from me, but it is more expensive.

Use this link to search in general: http://mytrackman.com/public/locator

This is the person in my area: http://georgepinnell.com/trackman-combine/