The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Crim]

[DrvFrShow]

While we're looking at Dan's takeaway, I'd say it's messing up his entire swing. If this component is off he's compensating from the beginning. For fun I put these together. Na Yeon Choi on the left flipped to lefty.

A2: Dan is way out in front.

A3:  That put him having to compensate. While the club angle looks okay, his hands are still way out in front. From his camera angle his hands should look further back.

I saw another one of his videos and he's complaining about his driver. He has an X-stiff shaft on it that he chopped 2.5" off, and that I believe even makes the shaft stiffer. He says he has a 104 mph swing. The shaft is now way too stiff for him. He should have done this with a S shaft. With this swing his driver is ill fitted for him. He needs more forgiveness. I can't hit a Titleist D3 either because it is not forgiving enough.

[Lihu]

While we're looking at Dan's takeaway, I'd say it's messing up his entire swing. If this component is off he's compensating from the beginning. For fun I put these together. Na Yeon Choi on the left flipped to lefty. A2: Dan is way out in front. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/113971/] [/URL] A3:  That put him having to compensate. While the club angle looks okay, his hands are still way out in front. From his camera angle his hands should look further back. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/113972/] [/URL] I saw another one of his videos and he's complaining about his driver. He has an X-stiff shaft on it that he chopped 2.5" off, and that I believe even makes the shaft stiffer. He says he has a 104 mph swing. The shaft is now way too stiff for him. He should have done this with a S shaft. With this swing his driver is ill fitted for him. He needs more forgiveness. I can't hit a Titleist D3 either because it is not forgiving enough.

Nice analysis! I'll be sure to post more videos in my swing thread for your anticipated analysis. :-) As far as the shaft is concerned the flightscope will allow him to fit his clubs better. while I agree that his swing could use lots of work, like most of us, using a launch monitor will tell him a lot absent of being able to hit on the course. X stiff is probably too stiff, taking 2.5 inches off will raise the kick point and probably lower his flight even more than the far too stiff shaft. I'm interested in what kind of power he is getting with his swing? It's hard to tell with video images unless he uses a high speed camera. Again, flightscope can tell a lot about his swing path and face angle at impact. He's got the ultimate tool, and should use it.

[DrvFrShow]

Since I can't play right now, what else can I do?

Na-yeon worked Kevin Smeltz, Pia Nilsson, and started with Robin Symes in Korea in 2013, and has one of the least complicated swings. It's all about tempo. Tempo is extremely important. If that's off and everything else is on, you still won't hit the ball best.

[Oz Max]

That A2 position in Dan's screenshot is giving me the creeps! it looks nothing like a low hcp swing.

I might sound nuts but I like nice swings, flowing, balanced and elegant, all very subjective notions I agree. Unfortuinately for Dan, his swing at the moment is far from elegant, looks more like he's out to chop some logs for the winter.

He doesn't need a Flightscope, he needs a teacher (and a mirror)

[natureboy]

Looks to me like he went from one horrible takeaway to another horrible takeaway.

With that flat of an arm plane, why doesn't he steepen his shoulders a la Kuchar?

Personally, I dislike that he doesn't seem to unweight / roll in on his lead foot at all, possibly leading to an abrupt transition.

[shortstop20]

While we're looking at Dan's takeaway, I'd say it's messing up his entire swing. If this component is off he's compensating from the beginning. For fun I put these together. Na Yeon Choi on the left flipped to lefty.

A2: Dan is way out in front.

A3:  That put him having to compensate. While the club angle looks okay, his hands are still way out in front. From his camera angle his hands should look further back.

I saw another one of his videos and he's complaining about his driver. He has an X-stiff shaft on it that he chopped 2.5" off, and that I believe even makes the shaft stiffer. He says he has a 104 mph swing. The shaft is now way too stiff for him. He should have done this with a S shaft. With this swing his driver is ill fitted for him. He needs more forgiveness. I can't hit a Titleist D3 either because it is not forgiving enough.

Watching the video it's easy to see that he's attempting to get rid of his inside takeaway but the problem is he is getting rid of it the same way most amateurs do, the wrong way.

He pushes his hands out which keeps the club outside his hands.........so yeah, it gets rid of the inside takeaway but it does it the absolute wrong way.

Hands IN, club OUT is what he needs. Think of Rickie Fowler before Butch for an extreme example. I'd be surprised if Dan's *real* handicap doesn't go up if he keeps going down this path.

[DrvFrShow]

Another thing he's also engaging his left side way too soon on his downswing, and his left elbow is getting trapped. At impact his left elbow is still stuck. His body won the race. He also looks very tight and not fluid. Of course the weather up here hasn't been conducive to loose and fluid TBH. He also rolls his left foot slightly outside at the top of his swing

He must have tendency to hit a lot of thins.

[flopster]

It's called no athletic ability to be brutally honest, when someone like that tries to make changes they almost always overdue it  to the absurd.

[garybbq]

It's called no athletic ability to be brutally honest, when someone like that tries to make changes they almost always overdue it  to the absurd.

No..... It's called not working with his instructor.

[nevets88]

Snapshots at the 4th circle in the hand takeaway:

I just don't understand why the takeaway is that hard. From what I recall, nearly every lesson he has posted has mentioned that this is a red flag for him. I think one or two lessons by Chris Smith he said something to the effect, "We've talked about your takeaway, and it's in bad shape. Must be fixed. Too much hands, then arms, then finally shoulders and waist.  Do it as one piece to start. Drag the club back. In fact, we've talked about this extensively."

Yet I can see zero progress here.  Dan's hands and club go out and up as he starts the swing. Luke's hands go in and back. Dan's lead arm is not connected with his body, but Luke's lead arm stays close to his body.

Luke's club goes right through those same red circles that his hands do. Dan's club doesn't at all. Could be camera angles?

Regardless, I still see no "sweeping" action that he was encouraged to do. The club just comes right up as he starts a wrist cock. Doesn't fixing the takeaway take a few hours of mirror work? Just do it in slow motion. Then reinforced with full swings and camera. We are years into this plan, and any instructor would still instantly see a problem with the takeaway, I think.

...

This was what I was hoping to see in blog posts. Pieces that can be worked on without a ball, heck, without a club. Do motions without the club, club no ball, with a mirror, with a camera, that sort of thing is what I think of as deliberate practice. It doesn't all have to be at the range, which works out for inclement weather. Although I'm not so sure the backswing position commonly being pointed out is the priority piece he needs to worked on, it's the one that easily fits into the deliberate practice model making things easier and faster to learn, and for the changes to take "deeper".

[natureboy]

Another thing he's also engaging his left side way too soon on his downswing, and his left elbow is getting trapped. At impact his left elbow is still stuck. His body won the race. He also looks very tight and not fluid. Of course the weather up here hasn't been conducive to loose and fluid TBH. He also rolls his left foot slightly outside at the top of his swing

He must have tendency to hit a lot of thins.

Good point. Impact position with his arms looks a bit better in his earlier swing picture to me, though he may have 'run out of right arm' a touch early. Now it's too far in the other dir

Good point about the hand path. The thing that jumped out at me about his takeaway is that it seems to be all arm lift before his shoulders turn. I think Nicklaus' description of the 'feel' of the L shoulder pushing the L arm (and club handle) down to push the clubhead away would probably be helpful to him. He may score better than you, because he's spent a lot of time developing his short game touch, which matters a lot to scoring up to the potential established by the foundation of the long game foundation. Do you have similar long game potential? His swing speed (if it's an average) gives him ~ scratch potential (if he can also accurate & consistent enough).

[flopster]

No..... It's called not working with his instructor.

Not listening would be more accurate, but the other is obviously not able to comprehend and apply it physically.

[flopster]

Well what Dan is doing is looping it, and at least he's looping it to the rear which would be more Hoganesque but Hogan never took the club that far to the outside ever so sorry to all the Hogan lovers but it looks almost like he's trying something like that,it's a powerful move when done correctly like Sergio and Dustin but Dan isn't even close.

[golf-noob-bruce]

Well what Dan is doing is looping it, and at least he's looping it to the rear which would be more Hoganesque but Hogan never took the club that far to the outside ever so sorry to all the Hogan lovers but it looks almost like he's trying something like that,it's a powerful move when done correctly like Sergio and Dustin but Dan isn't even close.

If you're referring to how his hands move away from his body at the takeaway, then I disagree. Good golfers just don't do that.

[nevets88]

Taken from a Facebook page of one of the instructors I follow. This, is progression, results and swing.

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

Taken from a Facebook page of one of the instructors I follow. This, is progression, results and swing.

Coach? Instructor?  I don't need no stinkin' instructor.

(November 27, 2014, 4300 hours left)

http://18strong.com/dan-mclaughlin-thedanplan/ (go to the 1/4 or 1/3 mark (it says it's 28:00 left), and you'll find these quotes in the podcast):

Quote:

"Right now I don't actually have a swing coach ."

"I'm 4 years into it, so I'm getting to a point where I kinda understand the swing and I can do it on my own with my FlightScope here."

"I've essentially gotten to the point where... y'know I'm not done with swing coaches but the most important person is the mental coach ."

"You need tuneups every once in a while [with the swing] but mental coaching- that's something that never really leaves you."

Then later (16:15 left):

"That's how I see my story, just an average dude, competing with the pros ."

What's the ultimate mission of The Dan Plan, let's say you've played in your first event, do you keep going?: "Playing in a PGA event is really the only goal."

How long do you continue if you don't get to that goal? "I have 4300 hours left, but it's going to be 4 years left, so that puts me to April 2018. My goal is to keep on working, stay focused and move forward."

"In March, I got invited for a month to work in San Luis Obispo with Tiger Woods' childhood coach , Rudy Doran."

At the end of the interview, the podcast guy was full of inspirational stuff about the journey. Rarely do we see media challenge people who do these sorts of quests, it seems.

But the gist is that he is sticking to his idea that he is now best served by mental coaches, not swing coaches. That's a fascinating choice to me.

I found a little conflict with his idea that he doesn't have a swing coach because he understands the swing, and then the excitement about working with Tiger Woods' childhood coach. And surely Portland has some excellent coaches. But glad he is still seeking advice on the swing, at least.

(Podcast from Unknown date, but approx 5000 hours left)

http://birdiebank.com/danmclaughlin-10000hrs-danplan-pgatour/

Quote:

Moderator intro:

"When Dan started this plan, he received tons of ridicule from people in the golf industry. golfers instructors and other golfers. Mostly I think from other golfers because they were resentful that he could spend 10,000 hours practicing and playing... who said this is ridiculous, but the jury is still out. I think that what people miss is the fascinating research that we will be able to pull from his experience. We are going to be able to see what works and what doesn't work. What is realistic and what is unrealistic?"

....Later question...

And do you review your goals? I mean how do you keep track of that sort of stuff?

I kind of am constantly writing goals. I think goals, every day, you know you should wake up and one of the first things you should do is think about what your goal is for that day. Because for me, without goals, you know with 10,000 hours you just kind of like spin in circles for a long time until the 9,000th hour and then realize that you are way behind schedule. So you kind of have to have constant goals. Daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly, you know life goals, I just think that that is probably the most important lesson I learned.

So, you mentioned something there about analyzing your putting and analyzing your game. So the part that I’m really intrigued by is how you’re keeping track of your work, because no one decides to dedicate 10,000 hours to something and they don’t have a system for keeping track of what they’re doing. So stats, your performance, areas that you’re working on. You know, maybe give us an insight into how you’re tracking your game, and also what some of the strengths and weaknesses are in your game and how your recognize those strengths and weaknesses.

It’s evolved over time, you know, when I first started I just had a notebook and I would record every single putt I made. And at the end of the day I could say, oh, I made 68.4% of my three foot putts today. And then over the week, I could see what percentage in a week, and then I just tried to improve on that. So it was really easy because there was just one task at hand. You know now a days, with like shots gained, and fairways, and greens, and there’s so many more stats it gets a little more complicated at figuring out what to track and what actually can help you improve. But it’s essentially the same, you know, just keeping a record of your performance on different fields so you know, for me, I try to see how many feet a putt I made, and then what my proximity to the hole is with different irons, and what my overall score is, and then percentages of different things hit. And I, you know, over time you can kind of get a trend and you can see which direction you’re moving, and you just always want to make sure you’re moving in the right direction. And it doesn’t always happen. It’s not like a linear curve, it’s more of big steps. You can kind of plateau, but you’re working really really hard and you kind of plateau at some specific aspect, but then all of a sudden one day, out of the blue, you just make a big jump. And then you’re kind of at this next level, and then your averages are at this whole next level. And I don’t know why that happens, but that is what I found, especially in golf, is those kind of stepping stones. And the way to see that, and to understand it, is to keep as much information as you can on your current abilities.

Right up front, we see where the moderator is coming from (which is fine- I'm not against bias, but just pointing it out). Full of optimism. No discussion or counterpoint about the well-reasoned criticism that many have. One is simply "resentful" if they are at all skeptical he will reach his goal or that we will gain much useful from it.

We are going to get fascinating research? See what works and what doesn't?  A consistent discussion point here on TST is that we are getting so little research value from it thus far- many argue that it's entirely flawed from the start. If you believe that we are getting useful information, then please show us what fascinating research we are getting. Research with one person as sample size?

Interesting about the goals too, because another constant theme here on TST is that he doesn't really track his long term goal very well re: scoring. He talks about goals, but doesn't convey them to his audience very well, nor follow up on them. Mostly I hear about his putting goals earlier on, when he would move back after he reached various percentage-made milestones. But rarely specifics. What goals did he set and why? Did he find that helpful?

He will mention sometimes on his driving range videos that it's critical to hit different irons and woods randomly, because that's how the brain learns best. Don't just pound the same club over and over, mix it up- because that's what you do on the course. But he started out putting the same length putt for hours upon end. Cognitive dissonance!?!?! He never reconciles the two ideas.

And zero mention of "Strokes Gained Putting," which I think is the key of benchmarking- more than just percentages from different ranges. At the end, we do not know where he stands relative to pros in his putting. Just his general statements that he was hitting his targets and moving further from the hole.  Somewhere on the  TST site, I posted a "Strokes Gained Putting" spreadsheet, and we can all fairly easily benchmark ourselves against the pros. Not rocket science. I did a "Putting Challenge" recently at random distances and learned I was 6 strokes worse than the pros from those random distances for "18 holes." Not great for me, but I know where I stand. I could do this challenge monthly and track progress, and benchmark against the pros. Why doesn't Dan do something so simple?

Seems to me he missed his whole opportunity to take advantage of his "goals guru." I've reread those posts, and not found much carried through. The goals guru is not mentioned as part of his team anymore in various interviews. If he mentions that good goals are the "Most Important Lesson" (as quoted above), then why are they not "front and center" on his site for all of us to benefit from? Are they the most important thing or not? If they are, and if you are pleased with meeting the goals you have set, then lay it out for us. That would be powerful stuff from which we could all benefit. A consistent message from Dan is that he wants to inspire and learn from his project about goals. We are willing learners, but not finding the information available necessarily. Possibly it will be in Kindle form for $19.99 at the end of it all.

And here's a hint as to how I think it may all end up. Blurbs in paragraphs like this below. Plus an obligatory book from Dan M. and speaking engagements that only touches on the highlights.

Daniel Coyle quote on his Talent Code website (http://thetalentcode.com/2014/08/27/24-rules-for-becoming-an-adult-prodigy/):

Adult prodigies.

I’m talking about people in their thirties, forties, and beyond — people who are miles past any of the “learning windows” for talent, and who yet succeed in building fantastically high-performing skill sets.

People like Dr. Mary Hobson , who took up Russian at 56, and became a prize-winning translator. Or Gary Marcus , a neuroscientist who took up guitar at the age of 38 and taught himself to rock, or pool player Michael Reddick , or Dan McLaughlin , a 31-year-old who took up golf for the first time four years ago and now plays to an outstanding 3.3 handicap (and who also keeps track of his practice hours — 4,530 and counting, if you wanted to know).

We tend to explain adult prodigies with the same magical thinking as we use to explain child prodigies: they’re special. They always possessed hidden talents.

However, some new science is shedding light on the real reasons adults are able to successfully learn new skills, and exploding some myths in the process.  You should check out this article from New Scientist if you want to go deeper. Or read Marcus’s book Guitar Zero , or How We Learn , by Benedict Carey (out next week).

Woohoo. I'm inspired. Adult prodigy! I have it in me to explode myths too, we are all prodigies! I feel great.

I'm not a hater, I swear!  Why do I keep tracking this project? It's got nothing to do with Dan, I think. There's something off about this cottage industry that has grown up about following your dreams. It has become cliche to say that you do something not for yourself, but to inspire others. Those have become the magic PC words that validate all endeavors and make us all uncritical mush-brains. I love a great story though, but at some point, reality must intrude. Some endeavors are simply unrealistic. Starting in mid-life without previous athletic talent to become an elite professional golfer is one of those such endeavors. It was just never gonna happen.

He'll get good. Better than me. Was that ever in doubt?

So if getting to a PGA event wasn't ever going to happen, we could've hoped for more "fascinating research" and useful ideas for those of us learning. Not just with golf, but with goal setting and techniques for optimal learning. Since this was his full-time task, he could teach us from one aspiring golfer to another, one mid-life dude to another how to get our brains going on new things. He is one of us. He can relate to us, and be less academic about it all.

Well, after 4 years, we can each decide whether we get more from reading TheDanPlan or TheSandTrap on how to learn (lots of threads here on that). You can probably guess where I currently stand.

As I've said before, pass the popcorn.  This will likely get more interesting as we near the 10,000 hour mark. I guess I'll stick it out.

[nevets88]

"I'm 4 years into it, so I'm getting to a point where I kinda understand the swing and I can do it on my own with my FlightScope here."

I've been learning about the golf swing longer than The Dan Plan and the more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. Now if I devoted a couple of years full time and had the benefit of mentorship from master instructors and watching countless lessons, maybe then I would think of making this statement.