710 MB vs. Scratch Golf Tour Custom vs. Miura Blades

[rebby]

lol, yea I dont really think you need that 58 in there, too many wedges. 2 degrees of loft difference is nothing

I'd agree with that statement. Unless you're looking to do some sort of dual wedge setup that you can change from time to time. Like having a 50, 56, 60 combo one day then 52, 58 the next. That's a lot of wedges to learn though. Unless you play a LOT, sticking with one setup is probably the way to go.

[cody west]

Originally Posted by rebby

Quote:

Originally Posted by motteler621

lol, yea I dont really think you need that 58 in there, too many wedges. 2 degrees of loft difference is nothing

I'd agree with that statement. Unless you're looking to do some sort of dual wedge setup that you can change from time to time. Like having a 50, 56, 60 combo one day then 52, 58 the next. That's a lot of wedges to learn though. Unless you play a LOT, sticking with one setup is probably the way to go.

Ya i have 47, 52, 56, 60 and I can honestly say i dont even know how far i hit my 60 on a full swing because i only use it for chipping over things. I would order a 58 because I have a feeling it will be more useful overall because I wouldn't use it for full shots.  I was considering a dual wedge set but I wasnt sure yet

Also, I work at the shop so I'm ordering them strait from the company.

[Robato]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Well, you've listed a few of the most sought after blades (on the internet at least - not to many local players here playing blades but those that are have Mizunos, Titleist, Clevand, Nakashima, KZG, WS, and MacGregor - basically vintage and clubfitter brands). If you're going to buy new irons without hitting them, and base your choices on other people's opinion (people who might be posers - it is the interweb after all), don't forget to solicit opinions on Srixon/Cleveland, Bridgstone/Tourstage, Adams, Geotech, KZG, RC, Fourteen, PRGR, Yonex, Epon, Yururi . . .

Some of these coughposercough brands are available here- not necessarily in lefty though:

http://www.tourspecgolf.com/Iron-Sets

The Titleists sound like the safest choice for you. I admit its not easy to gamble on Miuras, since you cant really try them before buying. A lot of players on this forum mention the same thing, that they take the leap and thoroughly enjoy Miuras. Its a little bit easier for me, since I live in Japan, to try everything out. Plus, Miuras are the shit in Japan, like walking around with a collection of samurai swords. They don't sell them to you directly unless you are custom fit for them, too. I didn't know that the Scratch irons are offered with custom grinds. That is really impressive, but I'm sure the wait is forever.

The guy above who calls them poser brands cracks me up. Just because of the clubs he sees 'local' players play...sounds like a 'local' opinion.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Robato

The Titleists sound like the safest choice for you. I admit its not easy to gamble on Miuras, since you cant really try them before buying. A lot of players on this forum mention the same thing, that they take the leap and thoroughly enjoy Miuras. Its a little bit easier for me, since I live in Japan, to try everything out. Plus, Miuras are the shit in Japan, like walking around with a collection of samurai swords. They don't sell them to you directly unless you are custom fit for them, too. I didn't know that the Scratch irons are offered with custom grinds. That is really impressive, but I'm sure the wait is forever.

The guy above who calls them poser brands cracks me up. Just because of the clubs he sees 'local' players play...sounds like a 'local' opinion.

Your post illustrates perfectly why they're a poser brand. For every player who likes them because they've hit them, there are 100 guys (made up stat) raving about them and drooling over them and calling them "se*y" when they've never actually seen or hit one in person. I've read enough comments from when Scratch (for example) came onto the scene. Quite a few guys shelled out big coin for them only to dump them a month or two later. Sort of like the R9 driver I suppose.

Miura are probably much better irons, but these days playing any forged blades can be seen as a poser move by many non-believers. People like the OP consider buying expensive blades sight unseen because people on the internet rave about them and they have a certain cachet, which is sort of a poser move. It's true.

[rebby]

I must be a poser. Not only do I play blades and carry a, gasp, 2-iron but I also went down both the Scratch and Miura rat holes w/out hitting them first (unless you count demo irons, I did have a few Scratch demos put together). Sometimes trying a given club, especially an exotic blade, requires a little up front investment. The beauty of these brands is, unlike the vast majority of OEM sticks, they actually hold their value. Thus far I've sold a set of Scratch blades and a set of Miura blades costing me a whopping $46 (total, between the 2 sets) in the end. Try that with an OEM iron.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by rebby

I must be a poser. Not only do I play blades and carry a, gasp, 2-iron but I also went down both the Scratch and Miura rat holes w/out hitting them first (unless you count demo irons, I did have a few Scratch demos put together). Sometimes trying a given club, especially an exotic blade, requires a little up front investment. The beauty of these brands is, unlike the vast majority of OEM sticks, they actually hold their value. Thus far I've sold a set of Scratch blades and a set of Miura blades costing me a whopping $46 (total, between the 2 sets) in the end. Try that with an OEM iron.

By your own description you didn't in fact buy them sight unseen or without having hit them. You can hit them them well, and based on your index and your commitment to the brand(s) you're anything but a poser. Brands don't become poser brands because they're junk or because in the right hands they aren't fantastic. If they weren't, then they'd have to do a lot of marketing to fool people into thinking they were the top. I haven't seen too many print ads for Scratch or Miura, but I haven't seen too many for Ferrari automobiles either.

Ferrari's sponsorship of F1 etc is probably more expensive than an ad campaign anyway, but would you consider a Ferrari a poser car? I sure would. Is it a great automobile? Of course it is and every reputable review of them confirms that. I'm not a good enough driver to refute the reviews either way and to say that every person who purchased one is poser would be wrong.  But still, many Ferrari owners are posers. It is what it is.

Remember when Nissan 300 zx twin turbos hit the market in ~ 1990? The best sports car value maybe ever. Nissan offered driving lessons with the purchase because there were so many people buying it who had no business taking it on the road. It was/is a great car. In the right hands, it rocked. A lot of people bought it virtually sight unseen because having the monniker "twin turbo" was cool.

I could go on, but I think you know I wasn't referring to you or anyone who's got game and did their homework. Unless you had decided to buy Miura or Scratch products based on tips from random forum posters . . .

[rebby]

By your own description you didn't in fact buy them sight unseen or without having hit them.

I bought my Miura's before hitting them, both sets (the TB's and the 1957's). When I got my Scratch SB-1's, I'd only hit the 7-iron (I had 3 of these made w/different shafts and grinds). When I ordered my Miura Tournament Blades, I went through the same builder that I got my SB-1's from. We made a few tweaks to my shafts (to adjust ball flight and better fit the Miura muscle) but left all other variables alone. When I got my 1957's, we left everything alone (basically just swapped heads). Like the Tournament Blades though, I'd never hit the 1957 before buying them. [quote]You can hit them them well,[/quote] I can, I actually hit them extremely well. I honestly believe that at a given level of skill, a golfer can hit any club well, perhaps not optimal, but well. I mean look at the equipment that guys played 100 years ago, heck, 15 years ago. There was no such thing as a dynamic fitting, guys adjusted to their equipment. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm a huge believer in fitting your equipment to your game rather than the other way around but, at the same time, once you reach a given level of skill, you can adapt to the nuances of a given club design if you have to. [quote]and based on your index and your commitment to the brand(s)[/quote] My index shows that I have a shred of talent and am willing to working hard. As for a commitment to a brand, I'm not brand loyal by any means. I'm more than willing to move from brand to brand to play what fits my game the best. My iron shuffle over the past few years should prove that beyond any measure of doubt. I do, however, believe in the products that I game. Right now my bag contains sticks from Callaway, Titleist, Miura and Scratch (backups) and I honestly believe that every one of these clubs are a fantastic product. If I didn't believe in them, I wouldn't be gaming them. I'm also willing to look outside of my comfort zone, my golf ball is an indication of that (currently gaming a Penta and I've never liked TM products in the past, go figure). [quote]you're anything but a poser.[/quote] I sure hope not. I vigorously test and retest the equipment that I use on a golf course. Probably to the point of absurd. The bottom line is that I want to have the utmost of confidence in the equipment that I use. The more confidence that I have in my clubs/ball/whatever, the more focus that I can dedicate to my game instead of my equipment. Confidence is the exact reason that I put so much effort into assuring that I'm comfortable with every piece of equipment that I use. If I am not confident in a club, it will not survive in my bag. On that note, I believe that everybody should be willing to do the same thing and I do find it somewhat of a poser move to show up to the course with equipment that just hit the retail shelves earlier that same day. I saw I guy gaming a 910 driver earlier this year [b]in a tournament[/b] just minutes after walking out of the pro-shop with it. I couldn't believe it. Truth be told, I was very tempted to game my tournament blades in a tournament just a week after getting them but, in fairness, I had spent no less than 12 hours on the range and 3 hours in on course practice with them. I had an expectation for how they would perform by then. The guy with the 910 hadn't even hit balls into a net with his new stick. His new 910 headcover did look sharp next to his AP2's though, much better than that old Cleveland headcover anyway. :roll: [quote]Brands don't become poser brands because they're junk or because in the right hands they aren't fantastic. If they weren't, then they'd have to do a lot of marketing to fool people into thinking they were the top. I haven't seen too many print ads for Scratch or Miura, but I haven't seen too many for Ferrari automobiles either.

Ferrari's sponsorship of F1 etc is probably more expensive than an ad campaign anyway, but would you consider a Ferrari a poser car? I sure would. Is it a great automobile? Of course it is and every reputable review of them confirms that. I'm not a good enough driver to refute the reviews either way and to say that every person who purchased one is poser would be wrong.  But still, many Ferrari owners are posers. It is what it is.

Remember when Nissan 300 zx twin turbos hit the market in ~ 1990? The best sports car value maybe ever. Nissan offered driving lessons with the purchase because there were so many people buying it who had no business taking it on the road. It was/is a great car. In the right hands, it rocked. A lot of people bought it virtually sight unseen because having the monniker "twin turbo" was cool.

I could go on, but I think you know I wasn't referring to you or anyone who's got game and did their homework. Unless you had decided to buy Miura or Scratch products based on tips from random forum posters . . .

[/quote] Personally I think that "tips from random forum posters" are a decent way to get some basic information. Without those tips, I may not have ever tried Scratch or Miura. Hearing positive buzz about a product can open your eyes to a possible alternative that you may not have considered otherwise. The simple fact is though, you have to take these comments with a grain of salt. I mean, of course I'm going to say great things about Miura irons. If I didn't have great things to say about them then what in the hell are they doing in my bag? It doesn't make sense. I'd expect similar comments to from just about anybody about their current irons whether they're gaming Titleist, Scratch, Mizuno or heck, even Cleveland VAS (I wonder if anybody is still gaming these? After all, they do have a major under their belt).

[Robato]

Originally Posted by Robato

The Titleists sound like the safest choice for you. I admit its not easy to gamble on Miuras, since you cant really try them before buying. A lot of players on this forum mention the same thing, that they take the leap and thoroughly enjoy Miuras. Its a little bit easier for me, since I live in Japan, to try everything out. Plus, Miuras are the shit in Japan, like walking around with a collection of samurai swords. They don't sell them to you directly unless you are custom fit for them, too. I didn't know that the Scratch irons are offered with custom grinds. That is really impressive, but I'm sure the wait is forever.

The guy above who calls them poser brands cracks me up. Just because of the clubs he sees 'local' players play...sounds like a 'local' opinion.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Your post illustrates perfectly why they're a poser brand. For every player who likes them because they've hit them, there are 100 guys (made up stat) raving about them and drooling over them and calling them "se*y" when they've never actually seen or hit one in person. I've read enough comments from when Scratch (for example) came onto the scene. Quite a few guys shelled out big coin for them only to dump them a month or two later. Sort of like the R9 driver I suppose.

Miura are probably much better irons, but these days playing any forged blades can be seen as a poser move by many non-believers. People like the OP consider buying expensive blades sight unseen because people on the internet rave about them and they have a certain cachet, which is sort of a poser move. It's true.

Man, Sean. Why does it say 'Forum Leader' next to your name. It should say 'Confusing Argument Introducer.'

I still don't see how you think a maker of irons is a poser brand if the reputation is so good, that people see a lot of 'random posters,' as you say, raving about them, and want to try them too. Non-believers? Who cares what non-believers think. Sometimes the skill needed to appreciate a clubs worth creates an exclusive groups of fans, but I don't think a quality built club makes it a bad club for beginners. If they have the money, why not try them? And if they then develop the game to back it up, then that is the farthest from posing. Anyone posing with over-the-top clubs are definitely not the type of people who do their research, narrow down their club selection, ask politely about others' opinions, etc. Is that what we have here Sean?

The Nissan 300 ZX, or the Fairlady Z over here, was awesome. I remember that one. I would've called any under-the-speed-limit 300Z driver a poser back then, but maybe that was just my jealousy. I'd have to say that a true poser would be someone who not only buys that car, but then covers it with racing stickers and makes it look like the car is sponsored by HKS, and then backs out of an innocent challenge by a Mustang at a red light.

[cody west]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Miura are probably much better irons, but these days playing any forged blades can be seen as a poser move by many non-believers. People like the OP consider buying expensive blades sight unseen because people on the internet rave about them and they have a certain cachet, which is sort of a poser move. It's true.

ha....ha. when will i be as wise as you with your great insight?... oh wait, i almost forgot that you are offering an opinion, just like the other "posers" online but because you (in your own eyes) arent a poser have an opinion that I (the OP) should take into greater consideration than my own experiences with titleist.  I made my decision, I bought titleist because I like them, i have owned titleist blades in the past and their good clubs.... I just wanted to see if anyone on here had some information on the other brands that I was considering.

so, I'm so glad you know all about me (or at least enough to decide that I am a poser) from the original post in this thread and I appreciate your deep understanding of the situation I am in. I also appreciate being called a poser by some guy (maybe girl, who knows you could be a poser) on the internet for trying to get some insight on clubs that I am interested in.  I sincerely hope my gratitude for your brilliant views on my situation shows through this post. *end sarcasm*   i dont like being called names, especially by someone who has never and will never meet me.

oh and good comparison with the R9 driver...it was one of the top selling clubs of last year and on all of the hot lists in magazines, and it's made by a major manufacturer which was showcased at almost every demo day in american, but I can absolutely without a doubt see the relation to the Miura blades that you practically have to live in Japan to demo. same idea right...

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by cody west

oh and good comparison with the R9 driver...it was one of the top selling clubs of last year and on all of the hot lists in magazines, and it's made by a major manufacturer which was showcased at almost every demo day in american, but I can absolutely without a doubt see the relation to the Miura blades that you practically have to live in Japan to demo. same idea right...

I wasn't saying you ARE a poser, just that a lot of posers buy forged blades with a pedigree becauae they think it's cool. If you thought I meant you don't have enough game to play them, sorry about that.

Speaking of the R9 though, do you know why it was on all the hot lists? Because everyone and their dog who can't hit the ball > 175 yards was buying them. And why was that? Because Taylor Made spends a lot of money pushing their new product lines. Every time I walked into a golf shop in the fall of 2009 I was asked, "Are you here for the new R9?". No. "Would you like to hit one?" No thank you, I'm here to look at wedges. "Oh, the Vokey's are right over here . . . " Etcetera.

Whether you have the game for all those irons or you don't is irrelevant - it's your money and your choice. Why did I buy a set of Cleveland TA1s then a year later a set of TA3s (off ebay) even though I already had "better" irons in my bag? Who knows why people gravitate towards certan brands? We just do. Peace out.

[Bigtank]

If you have not already purchased those 710mb's.....just an FYI, they realeased the 712 series this week, so those 710's will probably drop.

I am a Titleist guy, I am in their consumer product review panel, and I still say the Miura are the finest forged irons on the planet!  Their product tolerances are staggeringly tight....that being said I think getting the proper shaft plays a more significant role in the playability of the irons.

I am not a huge fan of Scratch equipment, however I know they make great stuff.  I think you have narrowed it down to some of the finest irons out there!

[Daniel Watkins]

Dude, try the new Callaway blades! Im a former blade guy, and ive hit all the clubs mentioned her except the Miruas (freaking hard to find).
Anyway, all that to say that the Razr Blades feel the best out of all of them to me. Really reminds me of the feel of old Ben Hogan apex's...and anyone here thats hit them can attest to how sweet they feel

[Stuuk1]

I now play with mp-29 blades and I'm a massive poser. I even managed to hit a birdie the other day!

[rebby]

Dude, try the new Callaway blades! Im a former blade guy, and ive hit all the clubs mentioned her except the Miruas (freaking hard to find).

MIura's are easy to find if you know where to look. :-D

[Daniel Watkins]

Originally Posted by rebby

MIura's are easy to find if you know where to look.

Not here in Arkansas

[rebby]

Perhaps Sean mistook you for a poser do to the fact of you repeatedly saying you game this or are gaming that. You kinda sound like a poser.

What's wrong w/[b]gaming[/b] irons? Just an expression. A lot of guys [b]bag[/b] this or that, others [b]game[/b] this or that. I apparently gravitated towards having [b]gamers[/b]. :-D What's the preferred terminology? I can go that route instead if you'd prefer... :beer: On the other hand, it's hard to fight with this mentality -> [quote]these days playing any forged blades can be seen as a poser move by many non-believers.[/quote] After all, any "reputable" golf magazine will tell you 10 ways til Sunday that even pro's can't play blades. [quote]Not here in Arkansas[/quote] Ug, Miura dealer in Arkansas, tough one. Good luck, how about a neighboring state?

[NM Golf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebby



What's wrong w/ gaming irons? Just an expression. A lot of guys bag this or that, others game this or that. I apparently gravitated towards having gamers . What's the preferred terminology? I can go that route instead if you'd prefer...

You will notice I had deleted that post, it was in poor taste, I guess just not in time......

But since you asked, personally I just play Titleists, although on occasion I have hit them as well. I don't believe I have ever gamed anything...but I have bagged an elk before, but that was with a 30-06!

Quote:

On the other hand, it's hard to fight with this mentality ->



After all, any "reputable" golf magazine will tell you 10 ways til Sunday that even pro's can't play blades.

I used to be that blade hater. In fact, I had several heated discussions on this very site back in the day where I said that everyone would be better off with a more forgiving iron. While I do still believe that the average 15 handicapper will be doing their game a disservice to play blades, I will never go back. For me I just love the feeling, plus I just like the fact I am in charge of where my ball goes. If I make a bad swing I should be punished with a bad shot, but most importantly if I make a good swing, cavity backs just seemed to be inconsistent.

[rebby]

You will notice I had deleted that post, it was in poor taste, I guess just not in time......

But since you asked, personally I just play Titleists, although on occasion I have hit them as well. I don't believe I have ever gamed anything...but I have bagged an elk before, but that was with a 30-06!

Ah, it's all in good fun. I sensed the under-toe of sarcasm. In fact, earlier in this thread, I was a little sarcastic about being a poser myself. :-D Those 710 MB's are solid irons. I wouldn't mind [b]playing[/b] them for a few rounds. I love the satin finish on the upcoming 712's too. Although, I don't think that I'll be letting my Miura's go anytime soon. [quote] I used to be that blade hater. In fact, I had several heated discussions on this very site back in the day where I said that everyone would be better off with a more forgiving iron. While I do still believe that the average 15 handicapper will be doing their game a disservice to play blades, I will never go back. For me I just love the feeling, plus I just like the fact I am in charge of where my ball goes. If I make a bad swing I should be punished with a bad shot, but most importantly if I make a good swing, cavity backs just seemed to be inconsistent.

[/quote] I was the same way. I had it continuously drilled into me for years that cavity back irons were pretty much a requirement to play good golf. Like almost every serious golfer, I had a set of PING Eye2's in the bag for quite a while. I even moved to the i3 "blade's" years later and played some exceptional golf with them. Making the switch to a forged blade made me a better golfer though. My practice became a lot more productive and my good shots became more and more consistent. It really was an eye opening experience. It's a great feeling when you put a good move on the ball and just know that you knocked it stiff. I get that feeling more often with my blades than I ever did with my i3's (even though I had a lower handicap with the i3's -- a result of practice, not equipment).