Honestly, I hit it long

[Yukari]

I've tracked my tee shots with GPS, and I average around 275 (total), with 290 if I really get a hold of it--straight level fairways.  Mind you I am in Colorado, so it is about 10% longer than at sea level.  And I am usually one of the longer hitters when I play with others.  In fact, I can safely say I hit further than 90% of the people I play with and I usually play as a single and get paired up with strangers.

[Deryck Griffith]

Originally Posted by Kieran123

To help get it into single digits?

I can tell you with confidence that driving the ball 300 yards is one of the last things required to becoming a single digit capper.  Actually in fact, driving 300 yards isn't EVEN required.  That's coming from a person that believes ball striking is king and swinging out of your shoes with a swing that rolls out the 300 yards doesn't mean you are a good ball striker.

As Sean_Miller said, driving the ball 300 yards on a shorter par 4 can be a curse in some situations where there are hazards, very little fairway, etc where better course management off the tee will reward you with a better score.  Furthermore, even if you hit a 300 yard shot onto the fairway on a shorter par 4, you are now left with a feel shot from 40-70 yards which, for some, isn't all that easy to execute.  I've seen many people rave about their 300 yard drive to then go ahead and blade or chunk their short yard wedge shot.  The chunk is usually better because you are left with a 30 yards shot now.  The blade is the best because it's usually a low, screaming laser that zips 80 yards past the green in nasty rough, water or trees.  So after such a beaufitul drive, you walk away with a double or triple bogey if you can't get up and down from the crap you just bladed into.  What a waste...

A good ball striker who plays smart will say, on 360 yard par 4 smash a 3-4 iron/hybrid to the middle of the WIDEST PART of the fairway...depending on how long he is with those clubs, have 130-150 left...hit a nice FULL PW, 9 or 8iron on the green, two putt and move on.  If lucky, one putt for birdie if his approach to the green is solid and left a makeable putt.  If this same person misses the green, they usually didn't miss THAT bad and can get up and down or walk away with a bogey (minimal damage).  That type of play is how a single digits become......single digit.

[bkoguy07]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

I can tell you with confidence that driving the ball 300 yards is one of the last things required to becoming a single digit capper.  Actually in fact, driving 300 yards isn't EVEN required.  That's coming from a person that believes ball striking is king and swinging out of your shoes with a swing that rolls out the 300 yards doesn't mean you are a good ball striker.

As Sean_Miller said, driving the ball 300 yards on a shorter par 4 can be a curse in some situations where there are hazards, very little fairway, etc where better course management off the tee will reward you with a better score.  Furthermore, even if you hit a 300 yard shot onto the fairway on a shorter par 4, you are now left with a feel shot from 40-70 yards which, for some, isn't all that easy to execute.  I've seen many people rave about their 300 yard drive to then go ahead and blade or chunk their short yard wedge shot.  The chunk is usually better because you are left with a 30 yards shot now.  The blade is the best because it's usually a low, screaming laser that zips 80 yards past the green in nasty rough, water or trees.  So after such a beaufitul drive, you walk away with a double or triple bogey if you can't get up and down from the crap you just bladed into.  What a waste...

A good ball striker who plays smart will say, on 360 yard par 4 smash a 3-4 iron/hybrid to the middle of the WIDEST PART of the fairway...depending on how long he is with those clubs, have 130-150 left...hit a nice FULL PW, 9 or 8iron on the green, two putt and move on.  If lucky, one putt for birdie if his approach to the green is solid and left a makeable putt.  If this same person misses the green, they usually didn't miss THAT bad and can get up and down or walk away with a bogey (minimal damage).  That type of play is how a single digits become......single digit.

Fantastic post.

That picture I posted earlier where I had half wedge in, I bogeyed the hole because of the awkward distance to the pin, left my wedge way short and had a LONG putt (3 putted probably should have parred it but hadn't putted in a while).

I probably should have dialed the driver back so I could have a full wedge into the green but at least I know now.

Along with that I know TONS of single digit handicaps that only drive the ball 220-230... they can easily out play me all day.

[LongerThanYOU]

So here's my two cents, believe me or don't up to you but its the 100% truth.  Before I get started, I am 6'2" and 210 lbs, former college baseball player, and could also hit a baseball well over 400 feet (confirmed on measurements several times during my career).  I wasn't always a great driver of the ball...coming out of college I hit I high blocky fade, but I had played quite a bit of golf when I was younger and was quite good, knew it would come back.  Well, here we are a few years post baseball, and a few hundred hours of range and with-pro work later, and here are some of my average numbers from 10 swings on the local trackman:

Club Head Spd:  121.8

Ball Spd: 169.9

Launch Angle: 13.3

Spin Rate: 3983 (Too High)

Avg Carry: 304.9 yds

Avg Total Dist:  314.3 yds

I play an R11 10.5 set 1 degree low, toe weight, open sole.  Stock X-flex blur.  As a reference, my iron distances are quite long as well: 60: 0-110, 56: 110-125: 52: 125-140 PW: 140-155 9i: 155-165, 8i: 165-175, 7i: 175-190...

Other things about my game...fight a snap hook most of the time, struggle with short game distance control (ie half and three quarter swings), putt well however, hence the 4 hcp at the moment.  Basically what my pro has told me is that while I do have a super high ball speed and head speed, those speeds make consistency and accuracy super difficult to control.. my swing isnt your typical swing out of your shoes 120+, its smooth and not outrageous, but I certainly stuggle off the tees like everyone else, especially against the hook.

In any case, just thought I'd share... yes some amatuers have pro distance and speed, but what makes us amatuers is the inability to harness it in and consistently make it work... BEING LONG IS NOT ALL ITS CRACKED UP TO BE!!

[bplewis24]

Liar.

Just kidding.  I would tend to believe you, simply because of the entirety of your presentation.  But you would still represent the top 5% (I pulled that number out of my arse), and it still doesn't matter whether I believe you or not :)

The people who I am skeptical of are the ones who base their driving distance on course markers or driving range sessions, yet talk about their struggles with the short game and show a 20 index. Like I asked earlier in the thread, are we talking a 5 index struggle or a 20 index struggle?  IMO, that's a huge difference.

Brandon

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

I can tell you with confidence that driving the ball 300 yards is one of the last things required to becoming a single digit capper.  Actually in fact, driving 300 yards isn't EVEN required.  That's coming from a person that believes ball striking is king and swinging out of your shoes with a swing that rolls out the 300 yards doesn't mean you are a good ball striker.

As Sean_Miller said, driving the ball 300 yards on a shorter par 4 can be a curse in some situations where there are hazards, very little fairway, etc where better course management off the tee will reward you with a better score.  Furthermore, even if you hit a 300 yard shot onto the fairway on a shorter par 4, you are now left with a feel shot from 40-70 yards which, for some, isn't all that easy to execute.  I've seen many people rave about their 300 yard drive to then go ahead and blade or chunk their short yard wedge shot.  The chunk is usually better because you are left with a 30 yards shot now.  The blade is the best because it's usually a low, screaming laser that zips 80 yards past the green in nasty rough, water or trees.  So after such a beaufitul drive, you walk away with a double or triple bogey if you can't get up and down from the crap you just bladed into.  What a waste...

A good ball striker who plays smart will say, on 360 yard par 4 smash a 3-4 iron/hybrid to the middle of the WIDEST PART of the fairway...depending on how long he is with those clubs, have 130-150 left...hit a nice FULL PW, 9 or 8iron on the green, two putt and move on.  If lucky, one putt for birdie if his approach to the green is solid and left a makeable putt.  If this same person misses the green, they usually didn't miss THAT bad and can get up and down or walk away with a bogey (minimal damage).  That type of play is how a single digits become......single digit.

Er. I was being sarcastic

[LongerThanYOU]

Brandon-

First I'll do my best to post a video or take a picture of my trackman screen the next time I get a chance and Ill post it up here for you.  But would tend to agree with you that it is very difficult to be a 20 handicapper hitting the ball over 300 yards, unless you just rip driver at the range and never touch your irons and wedges.  I personally struggle to stay low (hdcp) wise because of things that are and arent distance related.  That are distance related: with high club head speed its crazy difficult to hit shots that are less than 100 yards, even with a 60.  with distancee off the tee, i get more than my fair share of the shorties.. also,  I depend so much on spinning wedges its scary, and not being a terrific ball striker it hurts me.. which brings me to the not distance related part...Iron play.. i rarely miss this irons thin and fat... but really battle an over draw, alot like off the tee, and because of that I score poorly on par 3's.   in that regard, i would gladly trade 300-315 for 265-280 in exchange for 12 or 13 GIRs a round instead of 8 or 9..  All in all i think its terribly difficult to be higher than a 10 or 12 with 290+ distance.  Just sayin

[bplewis24]

I agree with you, and I'm serious when I say I believe you.

Still, if it's not too much trouble, it would be nice to see vid of somebody who truly hits it that far with the trackman data.  I just want to make it clear I'm not requesting it as proof that you can.

Brandon

[case31]

Originally Posted by Kieran123

Er. I was being sarcastic

It's hard to detect that without establishing that context in your first response.  It is shocking to think of the number of golfers that really do believe that increasing driver distance will instantly drop them to a single digit handicap.  The simple fact is that a large number of golfers have no idea how to practice in such a way that will improve scores.

[LongerThanYOU]

You got it.. this weekend ill find a way to get some stuff on video.

[LfSideStrngSide]

Longerthanyou,

Just out of curiosity, how often do you work on 100 yard and in shots?

[DJYoshi]

I'm not long at all.. off the tee or with any of my irons.

9 iron is 150 MAX but I usually use it for 140 and would rather smooth out an 8 iron for a 150 shot.

off the tee my avg is 250. sure i've gotten a hold of some drives and cracked it 300+ on GPS..with wind and great roll... and there are other drives into the wind I'll smash it and it only goes 230...whatever.. I'm def not above saying that there are a TON of am golfers out there that I play with who are much longer than I am... but as said earlier... get me within 150 and a scoring club...and I'm more confident with that..... even on holes where it's 310 downhill with wind.. i'll rarely for for the green these days...b/c I feel more confident to hit a 3 iron or a choked down 5 wood and have a full wedge shot to the green... but people really need to stop lying about distances...their scoring... how they average 300 off the box...... most tour players don't average 300 off the box..even though we know they can crank it 340.

[LongerThanYOU]

There is no question that I spend the majority of range time on tee clubs, by that I mean D, 3W, 4hyb, 3 iron...in an hour range session, I would say 30 minutes Tee clubs, 20 minutes 7 8 9 P 52 (Dont practice irons above 7 too much, courses in NH dont usually require I hit one), and 10 minutes 56 and 60 which I use the most for scoring.. (Inside 125-130)...               Sooooo basically, yah I don't practice them nearly enough.. BUT in my defense, I am a total headcase when it comes to golf, so if im not getting of the tee the way I like, my whole game suffers, whereas if my scoring clubs suffer, I can still play mid-70s golf...  I don't know. I know I should skip the range and just hit the practice green, but its more of a mental issue than anything.

How often do you guys work 100 and in? as compared to long game?

Originally Posted by LfSideStrngSide

Longerthanyou,

Just out of curiosity, how often do you work on 100 yard and in shots?

[DJYoshi]

Originally Posted by LongerThanYOU

There is no question that I spend the majority of range time on tee clubs, by that I mean D, 3W, 4hyb, 3 iron...in an hour range session, I would say 30 minutes Tee clubs, 20 minutes 7 8 9 P 52 (Dont practice irons above 7 too much, courses in NH dont usually require I hit one), and 10 minutes 56 and 60 which I use the most for scoring.. (Inside 125-130)...               Sooooo basically, yah I don't practice them nearly enough.. BUT in my defense, I am a total headcase when it comes to golf, so if im not getting of the tee the way I like, my whole game suffers, whereas if my scoring clubs suffer, I can still play mid-70s golf...  I don't know. I know I should skip the range and just hit the practice green, but its more of a mental issue than anything.

How often do you guys work 100 and in? as compared to long game?

Out of 150 balls when I do a range session

50 will go towards tee shots 3 iron to the driver

60 or so will go towards scoring shots... (firing at target points or greens at the range within 20 yards - 150 yards)

the rest will go to 4,5,6 iron shots.

then I take it to the bunker for maybe 10 - 15 minutes to work out of there...from chipping out of the sand to fried egg to expo shots.

[LfSideStrngSide]

Originally Posted by LongerThanYOU

There is no question that I spend the majority of range time on tee clubs, by that I mean D, 3W, 4hyb, 3 iron...in an hour range session, I would say 30 minutes Tee clubs, 20 minutes 7 8 9 P 52 (Dont practice irons above 7 too much, courses in NH dont usually require I hit one), and 10 minutes 56 and 60 which I use the most for scoring.. (Inside 125-130)...               Sooooo basically, yah I don't practice them nearly enough.. BUT in my defense, I am a total headcase when it comes to golf, so if im not getting of the tee the way I like, my whole game suffers, whereas if my scoring clubs suffer, I can still play mid-70s golf...  I don't know. I know I should skip the range and just hit the practice green, but its more of a mental issue than anything.

How often do you guys work 100 and in? as compared to long game?

I spend the majority of time on 100 yards and in. They say that 65% of your strokes come from that range (I think thats correct, dont quote me). If I were to break a practice session into time, I would say I do 45 min on 100 and in, then 20-30 on iron shots and same with driver/3 wood etc. Obviously that will differ from day to day depending on various things (what I feel I need to work on, where I am practicing, etc). But it is so crucial to get comfortable with those shots, especially when you can get that close to the green on so many holes. Try looking up Dav Pelz videos on you tube, I think he presents some interesting facts about this stuff that really make you think, wow. When I was younger all I wanted to do was hit driver because I could hit it longer then most kids and thought it was "the cool thing to do." Now my biggest thing is just trying to get consistent with the scoring clubs bc obviously, what good is a nice drive if you cant arrive? haha.

[LongerThanYOU]

Haha oh trust me..from my dad to my pro and everyone in between I can't tell you how many times I've heard "Drive for show, putt for dough.." But like I said my mental game on a report card would be in the D to F range... If I am struggling off the tee everything else fails (I'm only 22 maybe this has something to do with it maturity wise, yes I played when I was younger but took 8 solid years off between high school and college baseball)...   But the fact that I know in my head that I won't play well if I take myself out of it mentally on the tee kind of steers me towards extra drivers and woods at the range.  I've taken 52, 56, 60 to the range, and found myself half way through thinking jeez I hope I'm not gonna be crap off the tee next time out.

Basically my whole intention of posting here was to say that length isnt all its made out to be... Yes I can hit it over 300 yards consistently and hit almost 50% fairways, but does that make me a great or even great golfer? no, absolutely not... theres so much more to it than people realize i think. do i feel lucky to have power naturally? yes..is it helpful more often than not? yes.... but 300 yards means nothing if you dont take advantage of the opportunities it gives you.. trust me haha

[LfSideStrngSide]

Originally Posted by LongerThanYOU

Haha oh trust me..from my dad to my pro and everyone in between I can't tell you how many times I've heard "Drive for show, putt for dough.." But like I said my mental game on a report card would be in the D to F range... If I am struggling off the tee everything else fails (I'm only 22 maybe this has something to do with it maturity wise, yes I played when I was younger but took 8 solid years off between high school and college baseball)...   But the fact that I know in my head that I won't play well if I take myself out of it mentally on the tee kind of steers me towards extra drivers and woods at the range.  I've taken 52, 56, 60 to the range, and found myself half way through thinking jeez I hope I'm not gonna be crap off the tee next time out.

Basically my whole intention of posting here was to say that length isnt all its made out to be... Yes I can hit it over 300 yards consistently and hit almost 50% fairways, but does that make me a great or even great golfer? no, absolutely not... theres so much more to it than people realize i think. do i feel lucky to have power naturally? yes..is it helpful more often than not? yes.... but 300 yards means nothing if you dont take advantage of the opportunities it gives you.. trust me haha

Amen brotha!

[q7w]

but can you translate that into a real game of golf?